P5 . . . Smooookin . . . !!!!

CJSF

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I said I would report when it was all up and running . . . P5, Croft CI-P and Apollo.

I had a struggle through the loft, dragged out the 2 boxes of vinyl, talk about heavy, more than I thought, slid them down the stairs, 200 + there. Flipping through them, all my old favourite, one or two bought and wrapped for prosperity, never to be used. Reacquainting with albums I had long forgotten, memories brought a lump to the throat.

Played Jeniffer Warnes 'Famous Blue Raincoat' first, I also have the CD, so I could compare . . . ? compare . . . it hits you between the eyes! My first thoughts, 'why does any one bother with CD/digital' . . . then I came down to earth with practicality. CD's and digital downloads can be better these days if obtained from the right source. Then I put Peter Gabrial on, Rythum of the Heat . . . any one remember mid eighties, Ramada, Heath-row, Wharfdale had a giant speaker stack on dem and they used 'Rhythm of the Heat', awesome . . . the corridor was permanently queued. My little old transmission lines are not doing so bad.

This is my answer to the domestic furniture/small room problem. The book shelves are only 9" deep, I need 13". Answer, cantilever an extension, isolate with 2mm felt and hold in place with two stainless steal bolts that are not don up tight, they can be turned in the hole with the fingers, the nuts are nylock, so will not come loose.

The big holes, they create a broken bell effect, enhanced by the asymmetric layout to kill standing waves, even the bolt holes are off centre. Same principles with the TT board, it to is isolated on a sheet of 2mm felt, no spikes. Tap any of these boards, with out the holes they 'ring', sweet as a nut, (this is what speaker cabinets are general made of!) Having created the broken bell with the holes, a tap produces a very satisfying 'dull donk'.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt254/CliffStone/700boardsIMG_4676.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt254/CliffStone/700ampttIMG_4679.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt254/CliffStone/700speakersIMG_4678.jpg

Not the prettiest system, I would agree, but it fits with my life style, my room and listening to music. One job left to do, having proved the 'broken bell, felt isolation theory
works' . . . one of my 20 year old ideas that never went into full production, although I did a small prototype run of TT isolation boards, . . . Last job, I have to remove the boards, and spray them black.

CJSF
 

chebby

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Two observations...

(1) you have furniture between the speakers and protuding further into the room than the front panels of the speakers. (The nearest speaker appears to be feeding bass energy - from a transmission line - under the desk, and the other speaker is next to an alcove.)

(2) The Rega P5 is mounted on a large, heavy, hollow piece of furniture rather than a light, rigid, table or wall support. Rega P5 instructions recommend ... "Avoid mounting on hollow or heavy cabinets..."
 

CJSF

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chebby said:
Two observations...

(1) you have furniture between the speakers and protuding further into the room than the front panels of the speakers. (The nearest speaker appears to be feeding bass energy - from a transmission line - under the desk, and the other speaker is next to an alcove.)

(2) The Rega P5 is mounted on a large, heavy, hollow piece of furniture rather than a light, rigid, table or wall support. Rega P5 instructions recommend ... "Avoid mounting on hollow or heavy cabinets..."

Yes Chebby, you are right, although the speakers pic gives an optical illusion, they actually line up with the front of the desk.

One has to work with what one has, in both space and furniture, what the pics dont show, the room is also the wrong shape being only 12ft square although a good 9ft celling hight. I've always ignoring normal protocol, as in this case. Either work around it, or, turn it to ones advantage, if that fails, then one moves towards the accepted norm. In this case, it could be better, but its pretty good as it is, still a work in progress situation . . . ?

I've proved to myself, heavy furniture can be worked to ones advantage, in the same way as normal protocol back in the 70's said, 'heavy speaker stands dont work, I think, extolled in a paper by Kef at the time, but before I started my work. They were right, take a hollow stand and fill it with molten lead, when it eventually cools down, it dont work, absolutely no base, I tried it!!! . . . A bit of sideways thinking, the rest is history as you know.

I have used the light, broken bell theory to my advantage, isolating it from the furniture, its not half bad. At some time, I might rebuild the equipment corner, but at the moment its OK. It is unlikely I will ever re create my listening room 'back when' . . . perfect 1.5 to 1 dimension, the room melted . . . happy days.

CJSF
 

CnoEvil

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Good job.

In relation to the turntable, the Auralex Gramma (or Great Gramma) might give the isolation you need: http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_gramma/sound_isolation_gramma.asp

It's normally used for amp or speakers, but might work on a TT.
 

CJSF

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CnoEvil said:
Good job. In relation to the turntable, the Auralex Gramma (or Great Gramma) might give the isolation you need: http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_gramma/sound_isolation_gramma.asp It's normally used for amp or speakers, but might work on a TT.

As I say Con, 'work in progress', looks like you have anticipated my next move, got my eye on Hazels pastry roll out granite slab . . . :dance: if it works, £10 at the supermarket.

Easy to try out, although the cracked bell boards are working well, especially with the isolating felt sheets they sit on, its what we use on tt platters, why not elsewhere? Never go at a problem head on, be sneaky, come up from behind . . . :bounce:

I have taken note of Chebbys comment about the speaker placement, moved them 5" forward to good effect, all about fine tuning, thanks Chebby.

CJSF
 

chebby

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Don't go patenting the term 'Cracked Bell' any time soon :)

It is a term used by Alan Shaw of Harbeth and referring to ideas about cabinet design originated in the BBC research labs.

Basically if a speaker cabinet is seen as one contiguous piece of MDF then it can resonate like a bell with no gaps or joins to disturb the path of vibration.

If you then cut out the front and back panels and then screw them back on to bracing frames - formed from internal battens - then you have broken up any resonant frequencies in the midrange/treble and moved them down to the bass region where they are more difficult to hear.

The untypically thin walls of Harbeth speaker cabinets (like their BBC predecessors and a few Spendor Classics) are also damped to shift resonant frequencies down from the midrange into the lower bass region where they are less easily detected.

(Sorry, I have had to paraphrase from an article about a Harbeth visit and interview of it's MD by a another Hifi magazine that I am not allowed to link to or quote directly from.)
 

Mr Morph

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CJSF said:
Not the prettiest system, I would agree, but it fits with my life style, my room and listening to music.

Actually, I really like the look of your kit. Or maybe I've just spent too much time with Japanese designed stuff. Really like the Croft, looks very purposeful, and nice to see everything set up.
 

Mr Morph

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CJSF said:
Not the prettiest system, I would agree, but it fits with my life style, my room and listening to music.

Actually, I really like the look of your kit. Or maybe I've just spent too much time with Japanese designed stuff. Really like the Croft, looks very purposeful, and nice to see everything set up.
 

Mr Morph

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CJSF said:
Not the prettiest system, I would agree, but it fits with my life style, my room and listening to music.

Actually, I like the look of it! Or maybe I've tired of the Japanese design school after all these years? Nevertheless, glad you've got it all up and running!
 

CJSF

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chebby said:
Don't go patenting the term 'Cracked Bell' any time soon :)

It is a term used by Alan Shaw of Harbeth and referring to ideas about cabinet design originated in the BBC research labs.

Basically if a speaker cabinet is seen as one contiguous piece of MDF then it can resonate like a bell with no gaps or joins to disturb the path of vibration.

If you then cut out the front and back panels and then screw them back on to bracing frames - formed from internal battens - then you have broken up any resonant frequencies in the midrange/treble and moved them down to the bass region where they are more difficult to hear.

The untypically thin walls of Harbeth speaker cabinets (like their BBC predecessors and a few Spendor Classics) are also damped to shift resonant frequencies down from the midrange into the lower bass region where they are less easily detected.

(Sorry, I have had to paraphrase from an article about a Harbeth visit and interview of it's MD by a another Hifi magazine that I am not allowed to link to or quote directly from.)

Celestion did it on their hi tech SL600 cabinet, drove them mad for ages, then some one suggested gluing one of the corner joints with mastic, result, magic, but they needed some driving, I turned the copper tweeter dome on my pair black . . . power from the EAR 509's!!!

CJSF
 

CJSF

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Mr Morph said:
CJSF said:
Not the prettiest system, I would agree, but it fits with my life style, my room and listening to music.

Actually, I like the look of it! Or maybe I've tired of the Japanese design school after all these years? Nevertheless, glad you've got it all up and running!

Thank you Morph, afraid its my ex audiophile approach coming out, strangely, Hazel likes it too, I like the slightly non matching separates appearance, suits my slightly out of kilter life style.

Her you go, I said it was a 'work in progress'. I was impressed with the dynamics of the vinyl, but a bit unhappy with the image, and the treble was towards clinical, became wearing after a while? On the way home this afternoon, popped into Tescos and grabbed a couple of 'marble pastry roll out slabs', £12.50 a go. Indoors, grabbed Hazels slab, we wrestled them into place, heavy, especially for Hazel with her back problems, no stopping here, she is really getting into the 'hifi thing'. System now sounds like it did before I moved it, its warm and inviting, imaging is excellent, the top end has retained the detail but without the clinical edge.

An unexpected bonus, the CD has benefited a lot, smooooooth and extra subtle detail . . . perhaps its actually the valve amp that has improved? I dont know, I dont care, the whole thing is more musically involving . . . which is a good thing, I might try removing the 'TT cracked bell board' and leave the slab with the isolating felt sheet . . . be easy when I take it all down to paint at the weekend . . . I do like to tinker?

IMG_4682.jpg


Sitting here, like wearing a pair of giant head phones, listening to Jacqueline Du Pre and Dame Janet Baker, in an Elgar Concert, London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir John Barbirolli, magic, one of the CD legacy left me by my Father, if only he was still alive, we could enjoy it together . . .

. . . must not forget to replace Hazels slab . . . dont want to upset the superb pastry making do we . . . ?

CJSF
 

Mr Morph

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CJSF said:
Thank you Morph, afraid its my ex audiophile approach coming out, strangely, Hazel likes it too, I like the slightly non matching separates appearance, suits my slightly out of kilter life style.

Crikey, if you think your components don’t match, you should see mine! At least yours has a minimalist theme… Mine is more like a comedy of what I felt like at the time… ha,ha,ha…

And thanks for the better pic, it certainly suits your ‘Dinosaur’ tendencies. Can’t say I’m having a ‘classical’ evening, somehow The Eagles ‘Hell Freezes Over’ has found its way onto the 337…

Oh, and despite what some people say about amps ‘burning in’, I’ve always found they generally get better the longer you use them. I don’t expect mine to peak for another 3 years… lol… Think of the ‘old mans’ Rotel, and you get the idea…

Enjoy your tinkering, and I hope Hazel is getting better.
 

CJSF

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Thanks all for your contributions, just what I need, put a smile on my face . . . remember, I'm fighting my way to better mental health, I've not felt so good for weeks . . . Docs., tablets still on the desk untouched after a week . . . I am not going down that road!!!

Sadly Hazel has got to go through a dangerous operation soon? But then its up, up ,up . . . Bought her a 'Pure Evoke-s' (WHF recommended) radio to listen to while she convalesces, thats a pretty mean performer for a small transistor jobie.

Life is changing, looking forward to summer 2012 . . . it can only get better, think positive :dance:

Thanks again all . . . CJSF
 

chebby

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Stop the tweaking when you get to the point of...

(1) suspending speaker cables off the floor with fishing line and curtain hooks screwed into the ceiling (seen it)

(2) buying two of every LP and epoxying them together to make them heavier and more rigid (seen that too)

(3) sticking foil triangles onto mains plugs and speaker cones (and that)

A 'hi-fi aquaintance' once thought of asking Linn how much Sondek platters would cost to buy because he was considering glueing some of his favourite LPs to their own individual platters! (In the spirit of of eliminating warps and vibration or something or other.) Only a few LPs mind you.

This was shortly before his hifi debts bankrupted him, and he abandoned wife, house, dog, fishtank etc. to go and live back with his mother in Glasgow with a string of local dealerships after him for non-return of loaned equipment!

This was back in the early 1980s and the fool had a tri-amp'ed Linn/Naim system with active Isobariks and a Revox B77 in a tiny living room, with a mad Alsation dog running around knocking everything over and a gigantic aquarium that looked on the brink of toppling every time the dog collided with it.

I associated Linn and Naim (and hi-fi fanatics) with him for over 25 years after that and always thought of him whenever my own upgrade ideas started looking a wee bit expensive.

He was an excellent 'object lesson' that kept me from hifi insanity on many occasions.
 

CnoEvil

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These can often help if placed under the platform the TT sits on: http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Milty-PoliPods-Vibration-Absorbers-8-Pack/product_4957

Or its bigger brother here:
http://www.hifix.co.uk/sku.lasso?item=5b63316aaa813d628e0e0a61d213369c5d3967f809d63369
 

CJSF

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CnoEvil said:
These can often help if placed under the platform the TT sits on: http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Milty-PoliPods-Vibration-Absorbers-8-Pack/product_4957

Or its bigger brother here: http://www.hifix.co.uk/sku.lasso?item=5b63316aaa813d628e0e0a61d213369c5d3967f809d63369[/quote]

Thanks for that Con, but the Tasco slab come fitted with something that looks like the small ones? Feels a bit felt/rubbery, obviously so as not to scratch the worktop they are supposed to be placed on.

At the moment I'm going to leave well alone, get to grips with the music, otherwise one will just end up 'chasing ones tail', 'pot of gold a the end of the rainbow'?

. . . Next move, in a while, might be the cartridge . . . I fancy the high out put MC Dynavector 10x5, this cartridge has a history for me, first proper cartridge I bought back in around 1979'ish. I'm told the modern version is the bees knees on the Rega, but £300? need to think about that one, how much do I 'love' vinyl . . . ? The Ortofon Blue is good but???? Thats at least in the new year?

CJSF
 

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