Out with the New, In with the Old?

Page 14 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
If the Speakers were a person, they'd probably be Susan Boyle ie. no idea from looks alone, of the performance potential. They are big, imposing and room dominating....Mrs. Cno says she is going to bury me in one of them, when I shuffle off this mortal coil! (could be sooner rather than later...there WILL be a price to pay!!). So pretty, they are Not.

But...looks are soon forgotten when they start to sing. They sound an awful lot better in my room (14'W x 22'L x 11'H), than the dem room at Lyric. I also think would sound better still if I could afford them even more free space...but the wall they are placed along also has the door.

I have spoken at some length about their sound, You are rewarded with a wonderfully emotive and emersing sound. They give a "Musical Performance", where you feel you are sitting about 6 rows back. IMO. There is a slight romantic glow to the the music, as everything sounds just wonderful. They have huge scale and enormous detail....and the scary thing is, I think I'm only scratching the surface. They can handle a 600W amp and are revealing enough to immediately show improvements made anywhere in the system.

The answer to the qustion, "Do the Harbeths sound boxy", is quite a difficult one. They sound a little less open than the Kefs and the more space you can give them, with the better kit in front of them, the better and more open they sound. I think they are very natural, with a tiny hint of warmth, which makes the midrange shine and acoustic instruments sound as they should. Mrs. Cno says that she finds them a little boxy and unexciting for her taste...but our tastes differ. I like to shut my eyes and wallow in the music, wheras she likes to be envigourated by it (much like her taste in Men!!). The Refs bring her up close and personal to the musicians, like she is right in the front row, a couple of feet from them.

It is possible she has got used to a more forward sound, so a less in your face one takes a bit of getting used to....or maybe not, we shall see.

The Refs trade a little of that natural, organic flavour, for a slightly more dynamic, excitng and open one. I feel that with the Harbeths, you are (slightly more) listening to a performance, wheras with the Kefs you are (slightly more) listening to a recording. The Kefs are still very rewarding and refined speakers, that have a bass that is a smidgeon tighter, but less deep...which the Good Lady prefers (but kindly said that as she doesn't listen much, I should go with my preference - with a penalty to be extrated at some point in the future).

These are both versatile speakers and cover everything well. If your taste tends to classical and acoustic, you have a lively room and your preference is for a smoother, euphonic sound...the Harbeths are the way to go. If you don't listen to a lot of Classical, like a more energetic, but still refined sound...then the Kefs win out.

The decision was a close and difficult one...but what swung it was (in order of priority):

- By Trading in my 35i, all my listening would now be done through the Harbeths (compared to about 20% previously) - this was by far the most significant factor for me.

- Absolutely Zero listening fatigue - without giving up any detail/resolution.

- Great low volume performance...almost like they have their own built-in loudness button.

- Down the road, the Harbeths are more cable/amp agnostic than the Refs, which are a little neurotic...though less so than the previous series, which can sound too thin, bright and forward if poorly matched.

So there you have it. I am Plus a pair of coffins and Minus a room heater (a benefit in this weather).

Lyric HiFi are now the owners of my beautiful AMS 35i, which is in "as new" condition, complete with box, instructions, white gloves and ridiculously expensive/heavy remote. I would love it to go to a good home, so if any of you reprobates want to get a taste of glorious Class A, in a similar league to Luxman and Accuphase...give Michael at Lyric a ring, or let me know if I can help in any way.

The same goes for my 205/2s, which are also in mint conditon.

Now to just sit back and bask in the beauty of a Haydn Mass, as this rich Choral work washes over me.

Thank you for reading.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
Muddywaterstones said:
Congratulations CNO. It's rare I find someone's purchases interesting but this has tweaked something within me. I like the spirit with which you have engaged this change and hope it all works out well. Maybe I've missed some detail along the way but what amp are you using with the Harbeth?

Thank you.....I post up my ramblings in the hope that people will find them interesting. At least, I suppose it livens this place up for a while.

As for the amp, I have gone back to using my Arcam AVR600 in Stereo Direct to drive the Harbeths.

I had basIcally 2 systems:

AV - which used the Kef LS50s for FR+FL...and a lot of my 2 channel listening (as the 35i is hot and power hungry).

Stereo - AMS35i + Kef Ref 205/2s

The Harbeths are now doing both these duties.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
I dragooned in Tech Support and this is the result:

https://ibb.co/eTLXPy

https://ibb.co/dTYVBd

https://ibb.co/hZhqBd

Here are my original Photos: https://www.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/and-finally
 

insider9

Well-known member
I'm even more sure now they sound great. You're quite right they are not the most attractive looking which would never put me off, but fair play to Mrs. Cno.

How long have you had your previous setup? Can see thread is from 2012. You must've really loved it to keep it this long.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
insider9 said:
How long have you had your previous setup? Can see thread is from 2012. You must've really loved it to keep it this long.

Not sure....but probably some time in 2011.

Buy Once. Buy Right.....except when something very exceptional comes along. *diablo*
 

iceman16

Well-known member
295CA9CB-6C6F-4C8B-B9A4-C101FBF5F24A_zpsd7hvj7yy.jpeg
 

Macspur

Well-known member
May 3, 2010
843
3
18,540
Visit site
Admittedly they are pricey, but HiFi Racks do make stands especially for the anniversary models with some sort of isolation platform... I've got mine on standard wooden stands with acousti feet on the bottom of the speakers, from them and find them fine, but I've never heard them on open frames.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
1
0
Visit site
I have been messing about all day with something so simple trying to get it nailed the Reference are fussy buggas they don't let you off with anything. You think the Harbeths are not like that??
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
ellisdj said:
I have been messing about all day with something so simple trying to get it nailed the Reference are fussy buggas they don't let you off with anything. You think the Harbeths are not like that??

IMO. The Harbeths are not as fussy, but still show changes. The Kefs can sound well below par, if something isn't right....the Harbeths shine when everything is right, but don't punish in the same way as the Kefs when it isn't, so are more forgiving.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
Macspur said:
Admittedly they are pricey, but HiFi Racks do make stands especially for the anniversary models with some sort of isolation platform... I've got mine on standard wooden stands with acousti feet on the bottom of the speakers, from them and find them fine, but I've never heard them on open frames.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

The person who originally bought them, bought those stands....so they were all part of the deal. I just added the Missing Link isolation feet.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site

Thx Iceman

I have looked into every sort of stand. Almost all of them are much more expensive than SS and apparently don't sound as good. Custom Design do stands, which are also more expensive and don't have an open base....though the do have an open frame version, which is a lot more expensive and costs a lot to ship.
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
4
0
Visit site
CnoEvil said:
Andrewjvt said:
You may get this But stop getting so emotional/stop talking and put some pictures up for us, please

*blum3*

If I can figure out how, I might give it a go....though their aesthetics are an aquired taste, sitting incongrously on those spindley metal stands, 

I like the older look
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
Andrewjvt said:
CnoEvil said:
Andrewjvt said:
You may get this But stop getting so emotional/stop talking and put some pictures up for us, please

*blum3*

If I can figure out how, I might give it a go....though their aesthetics are an aquired taste, sitting incongrously on those spindley metal stands,

I like the older look

You give me hope. *biggrin*
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
Re The Stands

I don't have these by accident. Harbeth work best on Open Frame Stands, due to their Live Cabinet....and in the UK, Something Solid (use Solid Metal Bars) are the standard recommendation. They make them sound Faster, Cleaner and Livlier. The HiFi Racks Wooden Stands look much more attractive, but are at least twice the price.

The best Stands, according to my research, are supposed to be TonTraeger, which are not available here, 4x the price and only sound a little better.

Skylan (also not available here) and Custom Design are also widely used.

So....I'm afraid it's "Ugly Betty" all the way.
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
226
50
18,870
Visit site
This post was a roller coaster ride, where just when you seemed to tilt in favour, you corrected yourself in the next post :)

Hearty congratulations on getting the harbeths... I would be honest that I was expecting you to go for ref3's. And I would give full credit for ending up with the harbeths to mrs.Cno :)

You of course do deserve credit for relinquishing your MF amp. I guess you've emabrked on a new journey with the harbeths. And there are more acquisitions in the offing.

All the best once again sir :)
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
newlash09 said:
This post was a roller coaster ride, where just when you seemed to tilt in favour, you corrected yourself in the next post :)

Hearty congratulations on getting the harbeths... I would be honest that I was expecting you to go for ref3's. And I would give full credit for ending up with the harbeths to mrs.Cno :)

You of course do deserve credit for relinquishing your MF amp. I guess you've emabrked on a new journey with the harbeths. And there are more acquisitions in the offing.

All the best once again sir :)

Thank you, My Friend.

It's been a Roller Coaster Ride at this end too....I pretty much laid out my thoughts on here, as I had them. After the 40.2 vs Ref 3 showdown, it was the Ref 3s that had nudged ahead.

There are still areas where the Ref 3s are slightly preferable...and if it was a straight race between the full list of both speakers, the Refs would have been the winner.

As it is, I am happy that I have the speaker that makes a greater percentage of my music more enjoyable...and for 100% of my 2 channel listening time.

You are quite right to highlight the fact that I have embarked on a new journey....and a new amp is certainly something that I am likely to consider in the future.
 

Macspur

Well-known member
May 3, 2010
843
3
18,540
Visit site
Hi Cno,

Are you managing to get much listening done of the new Harbs? or are you being distracted by the World Cup and the beautiful weather.

Do you find yourself listening to any recordings in particular, or are you going through your collection rediscovering albums all over again?

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
Macspur said:
Hi Cno,

Are you managing to get much listening done of the new Harbs? or are you being distracted by the World Cup and the beautiful weather.

Do you find yourself listening to any recordings in particular, or are you going through your collection rediscovering albums all over again?

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

I'm not interested in Football unless Ireland is playing...and for the next fortnight, I'll be watching Wimbledon and The Irish (Golf) Open at the end of this week.

Before I retired, I used to have Radio Paradise on all day....and made a list of interesting Artists that they played....and now that my Internet speed is fast enough to Stream, I'm gradually making my way through them.

I'm listening to, a huge variety of stuff, which includes Choral works by Haydn (Little Organ Mass) and Orff (Carmina Burana), to Shpongle; Miles Davis, Cowboy Junkies and Yello.

The 12" Bass Drivers give huge bass, adding amazing scale to everything.
 

Singslinger

New member
Jul 31, 2010
16
0
0
Visit site
Cno,

I've not been on this forum for a few years and I return to find you've relinquished the MF AMS 35i ! I remember in 2012/13 when I was active here that the amp was your pride and joy; given that it's not made any more, it must have been a bit of a wrench to let it go...

In any case, you can't go wrong with the 40.2s - IMHO, they are wonderful speakers, albeit a bit difficult to drive (despite what Alan Shaw says) and fussy about stands. A good mate of mine uses Jeff Rowland Corus/825 amps with the speakers on open frame stands (he ditched Skylan as being unsuitable). Have you found a good replacement for the MF?
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
Singslinger said:
Cno,

I've not been on this forum for a few years and I return to find you've relinquished the MF AMS 35i ! I remember in 2012/13 when I was active here that the amp was your pride and joy; given that it's not made any more, it must have been a bit of a wrench to let it go...

In any case, you can't go wrong with the 40.2s - IMHO, they are wonderful speakers, albeit a bit difficult to drive (despite what Alan Shaw says) and fussy about stands. A good mate of mine uses Jeff Rowland Corus/825 amps with the speakers on open frame stands (he ditched Skylan as being unsuitable). Have you found a good replacement for the MF?

Hello my friend - I wish you would contribute more, as I think we look for very similar things from a HiFi system.

The decision to p/x the 35i was a hard one.....but all my buying decisions around my system in the last few years, have been trying to make my 205/2s sound more like Harbeth (which wasn't available at the time). When the opportunity presented itself, I was able to snag the 40.2s at a good price. Given I now had the Harbeth sound, the 35i was no longer a vital element.

I have always enjoyed the 2 Channel of my AVR600, which I preferred to good amps like M6i, Moon i-7 and Coda CSi, so I have the time to let my wallet recover, while still enjoying the Harbeths.

I have no particular Amps in mind....but it will need lots of power and HT Bypass. I look forward to seeing how good the Arcam A49 replacement is.

My Harbeths are on Something Solid open frame stands, with their Missing Link isolation feet.
 

jimmy1

New member
Nov 5, 2013
17
0
0
Visit site
Those harbeths look the dogs, they sort of remind me of those big wharfedales from the 70s', was it e90's with the 12 inch driver? I'm guessing the harbeths sound better tho but i like the old style of them just on looks alone, Congrats man, id say enjoy but goes without saying :)
 

TRENDING THREADS