Out with the New, In with the Old?

[CnoEvil]

Next Thursday, all being well, myself and the Good Lady Cno (whose ears I have come to trust), are hauling my lump of Class A gorgeousness to Lyric. This is not because my amp needs a day out, but because I want to hear how it works with some Kef Ref 3s. Well that was the original plan...but the fly in the ointment is Michael has, after many years, now started stocking Harbeth again.

So now, instead of this being a straightforward "yea or nea" , it has become a Trad vs Tech shootout...and most likely, a Heart vs Head decision.

It is also been made even more interesting, because, not only does he have the Super HL5 Plus, but he has some nearly new Monitor 40.2s. I want to like the Kefs more....but I just have this feeling that Harbeth will sound Beautiful, whereas the Kefs will sound Impressive...a bit like comparing a beautifully designed, gloss black electric violin, with a slightly battered Stradivarious. One causes your jaw to fall open in awe; the other has you in tears. Give me the latter every time.

I would like to hear the view of anybody who has either compared Kef Refs with Harbeth; or has compared SLH5, with the Monitor 40s...Mac, if you're out there, your thoughts would also be most welcome. Also, if you could describe again, the difference that the 40th Anniversary Edition has brought over the standard one. I wasn't paying attention the first time, as it wasn't on my radar.

 

[BigH]

Go with an open mind. Maybe do a blind demo. If I was in the market for new speakers I would be trying Harbeth as well as AudioNote. I would go with the beautiful one, impressive can soon wear off.

 

[ellisdj]

thats a cool demo one that should be on film

 

[CnoEvil]

thats a cool demo one that should be on film

Are you offering?

 

[insider9]

Interesting, very excited for you. Whatever the end result and I won't speculate. You're in for a lot of fun and then an agonising decision

 

[ellisdj]

If it wasnt across the pond I would happily do it, might need a little more notice but I would like to do the demo as well.

Not spent any time with Harbeth speakers to appreciate them - I have heard the KEF's do a lot more but I have heard the KEF's a lot more so its a given really.

 

[ellisdj]

Are the Harbeths not more in compare to REF 1's? Is it a fair demo in that regard to compare to REF 3's?? - I know its irrelevant for a buying decision basis just asking

 

[Infiniteloop]

Very Interesting Cno. I'm interested in either the Ref 3's or 5's pending an imminent house move.......

The only thing that puts me off both Harbeth and Audio Note is that I can definitely hear the box. I heard it again in the Harbeth room in Bristol. Especially when Alan cranked the volume a little. The midrange is indeed beautiful, but for me is marred by that obvious colouration.

Sonus Fabers have a similar midrange to Harbeths but manage it without that box twang. The new Spendors manage to pull off a similar midrange brilliance too. Again without the resonance (or at least less of it).

I want to like the Harbeths, I really do. Maybe living with super clean Focals (and Sonus Fabers) for as long as I have, have made me more sensitive to things that shouldn't be there.....

 

[CnoEvil]

I want to like the Harbeths, I really do. Maybe living with super clean Focals (and Sonus Fabers) for as long as I have, have made me more sensitive to things that shouldn't be there.....

Maybe the Monitor 40s will solve that....which speakers were in the Harbeth room?

 

[CnoEvil]

Are the Harbeths not more in compare to REF 1's? Is it a fair demo in that regard to compare to REF 3's?? - I know its irrelevant for a buying decision basis just asking

The SLH5, for sure...but the 40.2 is a bit of a beast (12" Woofer/8" Mid Range):

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/harbeth-monitor-402-loudspeaker/

 

[ellisdj]

yeah I would like to listen to them.
What's the rrp on them??

 

[ellisdj]

I want to like the Harbeths, I really do. Maybe living with super clean Focals (and Sonus Fabers) for as long as I have, have made me more sensitive to things that shouldn't be there.....

Maybe the Monitor 40s will solve that....which speakers were in the Harbeth room?

Harbeth rooms at Bristol

 

[CnoEvil]

yeah I would like to listen to them. What's the rrp on them??

Around 11K.....but I can't afford that.

If a deal can't be done, the thing won't happen. They are second hand, so we'll see how things work out ie. if I prefer them to the Ref 3s (priced ex-dem) and what I get as a trade in for mine.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I want to like the Harbeths, I really do. Maybe living with super clean Focals (and Sonus Fabers) for as long as I have, have made me more sensitive to things that shouldn't be there.....

Maybe the Monitor 40s will solve that....which speakers were in the Harbeth room?

I heard the Super HL5 Plus.

I’d like to hear the monitor 40’s. if they get around the boxyness, they would be a real contender.

 

[ellisdj]

Remember take your tape or laser measure and pay attention to what ports are in the REF3's if they sound lean its probably the long ports.

Both short ports is maxiumum full range and bass

 

[Macspur]

Hi Cno,

I wish I was coming to Belfast next week!

All I can say about the Harbeth range I've owned; SHL5, SHL5+ and now the 40th anniversary model, with each itteration all the things I love and look for in a loudspeaker, reality, resolution and musicality have been improved on... I really didn't think the + model could be bettered, but Mr Shaw again worked his magic.

I'm not sure what infinitiloop means about boxy, I've never noticed it myself.

I did go to a demo of the 40.2 and whether it was the poor demo room, they didn't particularly impress me and one guy was quite outspoken about his disappointment and ended up walking out.

A friend of mine has surprisingly just changed his SHL5+ for the new 30.2 and loves them.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[iceman16]

Cno, I will be very interested to the outcome of your demo. Having same amp as yours I will consider both speakers impedance and sensitivity.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno, I will be very interested to the outcome of your demo. Having same amp as yours I will consider both speakers impedance and sensitivity.

The Kef plays more to the 35i's strengths...as in higher Sensitivity and lower Impedance.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Cno
I would.have thought the harbeth the easier load than the refs.
Interested to learn about your experience.

As this means absolutely squat I'd go with the monitor 40.2 any day of the month over the ref3.

I really think KEF refs are more amp dependant to sound at Thier best

But you.know this

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno I would.have thought the harbeth the easier load than the refs. Interested to learn about your experience.

As this means absolutely squat I'd go with the monitor 40.2 any day of the month over the ref3.

I really think KEF refs are more amp dependant to sound at Thier best

But you.know this

My amp has "Torque" rather than ultimate "Horsepower", so to speak. It will actually go louder with a difficult load.

The 40.2 is huge and not room/wife friendly, so if it's affordable, there well be a lot of head-scratching and diplomacy involved. It could end up being like Russia/UK relations here in the Cno household..

The newer Refs are sweeter, so more tolerant (tonally) of a greater variety of amps, than what I have...but the quality still has to be there. I suspect the 40.2s will be (almost?) equally revealing....but will sound more like a musical instrument.

I think it really will be a fascinating day....maybe like comparing an old school "seat of the pants" sports car, with a modern, fully computer controlled GT, which mitigates a lot of the risk. One makes you whoop with delight; the other impresses you with its sheer competence, but doesn't quite instil the same deep sense of profound joy.

 

[davidf]

The newer Refs are sweeter, so more tolerant (tonally) of a greater variety of amps, than what I have...but the quality still has to be there. I suspect the 40.2s will be (almost?) equally revealing....but will sound more like a musical instrument.

Have you thought about which one you’ll start with? Could have a bearing on your thoughts, particularly if you’re doing quick A/B type listening.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Cno I would.have thought the harbeth the easier load than the refs. Interested to learn about your experience.

As this means absolutely squat I'd go with the monitor 40.2 any day of the month over the ref3.

I really think KEF refs are more amp dependant to sound at Thier best

But you.know this

My amp has "Torque" rather than ultimate "Horsepower", so to speak. It will actually go louder with a difficult load.

The 40.2 is huge and not room/wife friendly, so if it's affordable, there well be a lot of head-scratching and diplomacy involved. It could end up being like Russia/UK relations here in the Cno household..

The newer Refs are sweeter, so more tolerant (tonally) of a greater variety of amps, than what I have...but the quality still has to be there. I suspect the 40.2s will be (almost?) equally revealing....but will sound more like a musical instrument.

I think it really will be a fascinating day....maybe like comparing an old school "seat of the pants" sports car, with a modern, fully computer controlled GT, which mitigates a lot of the risk. One makes you whoop with delight; the other impresses you with its sheer competence, but doesn't quite instil the same deep sense of profound joy.

Either way it's a privileged position to be in and I'm sure you can't go wrong but those harbeth look timeless.
Exciting times
I wish you an enjoyable day out and look forward to hearing about the results.

 

[insider9]

The 40.2 is huge and not room/wife friendly, so if it's affordable, there well be a lot of head-scratching and diplomacy involved. It could end up being like Russia/UK relations here in the Cno household..

As long as we won't have to expell our streamers after this... it works for me.

Just remember you're setting a dangerous precedent if you buy a speaker with a woofer over 10 inches

 

[CnoEvil]

Have you thought about which one you’ll start with? Could have a bearing on your thoughts, particularly if you’re doing quick A/B type listening.

Interesting - I hadn't given it any particular thought. Can you lay out your thinking?

I was going to come up with an eclectic playlist and was probably going to start with the Refs (as they're familiar). Then SLH5, then 40.2. If the Harbeths are a runner, I will narrow it down to which one (based on VFM vs Performance).

Music will include opera, violin/piano concertos, jazz, prog rock, acoustic stuff, poor recordings, electronic stuff and everything in between.

I will then go back to the Refs...and if it's still a difficult decision, go back to the Harbeths.

I will have to work out what exactly I like about each speaker and how it responds to different types of music....and i'm looking for the best all-rounder...but I'm looking for the most natural, emotionally engaging presentation.

I will have my Son and the Leader of the opposition with me...so will also be guided by their thoughts.

If there isn't a clear winner, no decision will be made on that day....and if necessary, a second listening decision will be arranged. There is too much money at stake....and I already have good speakers.

I can't help but feel it will come down to Truth or Beauty...if Keats was there, he'd probably write an Ode about it.

 

[ellisdj]

what finishes are the speakers in? The REF in white are amazing things to look at - not that I would say be influenced by that far from it.