Out with the New, In with the Old?

[Andrewjvt]

Cno,

I've not been on this forum for a few years and I return to find you've relinquished the MF AMS 35i ! I remember in 2012/13 when I was active here that the amp was your pride and joy; given that it's not made any more, it must have been a bit of a wrench to let it go...

In any case, you can't go wrong with the 40.2s - IMHO, they are wonderful speakers, albeit a bit difficult to drive (despite what Alan Shaw says) and fussy about stands. A good mate of mine uses Jeff Rowland Corus/825 amps with the speakers on open frame stands (he ditched Skylan as being unsuitable). Have you found a good replacement for the MF?

Hello my friend - I wish you would contribute more, as I think we look for very similar things from a HiFi system.

The decision to p/x the 35i was a hard one.....but all my buying decisions around my system in the last few years, have been trying to make my 205/2s sound more like Harbeth (which wasn't available at the time). When the opportunity presented itself, I was able to snag the 40.2s at a good price. Given I now had the Harbeth sound, the 35i was no longer a vital element.

I have always enjoyed the 2 Channel of my AVR600, which I preferred to good amps like M6i, Moon i-7 and Coda CSi, so I have the time to let my wallet recover, while still enjoying the Harbeths.

I have no particular Amps in mind....but it will need lots of power and HT Bypass. I look forward to seeing how good the Arcam A49 replacement is.

My Harbeths are on Something Solid open frame stands, with their Missing Link isolation feet.

A second hand Hegel h360 could be a good option.
Very smooth, clear sound and all the power you could ever need for the harbeth.
Has the HT bypass you need and a very cool feature allows you to loop to another dac through another 'better' external dac.
It's called dac loop

 

[CnoEvil]

A second hand Hegel h360 could be a good option. Very smooth, clear sound and all the power you could ever need for the harbeth. Has the HT bypass you need and a very cool feature allows you to loop to another dac through another 'better' external dac. It's called dac loop

Hegel is certainly on my watch list for future upgrade.

I suspect that I will never move away from the Linn DS (rather than go the DAC route - which I have experimented with, having tried the dCS Debussy and AN (NOS) 2.1X Sig.

 

[CnoEvil]

Those harbeths look the dogs, they sort of remind me of those big wharfedales from the 70s', was it e90's with the 12 inch driver? I'm guessing the harbeths sound better tho but i like the old style of them just on looks alone, Congrats man, id say enjoy but goes without saying

*drinks*

Yup, I remember those big boxes of the 70s....and the Harbeths have taken that "simple" design and brought it up to date, while not losing the essence of what made that sound enjoyable.

I think a lot of us, who cut our teeth on the mellower sound of that era, find many modern systems just sound too forward, edgy and analytical.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Or a Yamaha A-S3000 which will run your speakers easily and will look the old school part too and the Yamaha will go down to 2 ohms load and I think would sound very nice with your speakers *smile* and it has a home cinema input which I use to run mine with .

 

[CnoEvil]

Or a Yamaha A-S3000 which will run your speakers easily and will look the old school part too and the Yamaha will go down to 2 ohms load and I think would sound very nice with your speakers *smile* and it has a home cinema input which I use to run mine with .

Thx, all thoughts welcome....though, given the Harbeths can take amps up to 600 Watts, I think I'll be looking at 200W Plus.

 

[insider9]

Cno, I'd consider MF A5. Not sure how it compares to your Arcam, but that's one of the best value high power amps I know. It can be had for under a grand and often around it with upgrades. Or maybe KW550s

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno, I'd consider MF A5. Not sure how it compares to your Arcam, but that's one of the best value high power amps I know. It can be had for under a grand and often around it with upgrades. Or maybe KW550s

Chances are, I will go for something I can hear/purchase from one of my 2 dealers....either ex-dem or "known used"....but I'm a long way off that at the moment.

 

[jimmy1]

if the harbeths are sounding that good already you can take your time and get the right amp for them, power and pre amp may work better considering the 600watt handling but ive never played with stuff of that calibre to be honest

 

[insider9]

Cno, I'd consider MF A5. Not sure how it compares to your Arcam, but that's one of the best value high power amps I know. It can be had for under a grand and often around it with upgrades. Or maybe KW550s

Chances are, I will go for something I can hear/purchase from one of my 2 dealers....either ex-dem or "known used"....but I'm a long way off that at the moment.

 

[Singslinger]

Cno,

I've not been on this forum for a few years and I return to find you've relinquished the MF AMS 35i ! I remember in 2012/13 when I was active here that the amp was your pride and joy; given that it's not made any more, it must have been a bit of a wrench to let it go...

In any case, you can't go wrong with the 40.2s - IMHO, they are wonderful speakers, albeit a bit difficult to drive (despite what Alan Shaw says) and fussy about stands. A good mate of mine uses Jeff Rowland Corus/825 amps with the speakers on open frame stands (he ditched Skylan as being unsuitable). Have you found a good replacement for the MF?

Hello my friend - I wish you would contribute more, as I think we look for very similar things from a HiFi system.

The decision to p/x the 35i was a hard one.....but all my buying decisions around my system in the last few years, have been trying to make my 205/2s sound more like Harbeth (which wasn't available at the time). When the opportunity presented itself, I was able to snag the 40.2s at a good price. Given I now had the Harbeth sound, the 35i was no longer a vital element.

I have always enjoyed the 2 Channel of my AVR600, which I preferred to good amps like M6i, Moon i-7 and Coda CSi, so I have the time to let my wallet recover, while still enjoying the Harbeths.

I have no particular Amps in mind....but it will need lots of power and HT Bypass. I look forward to seeing how good the Arcam A49 replacement is.

My Harbeths are on Something Solid open frame stands, with their Missing Link isolation feet.

Thanks Cno, I'm glad to be back - mainly thanks to Mac, who urged me to return.

As for suitable amps, the Electrocompaniet ECI5mk2 might be an option since it runs partly in class A and has enough drive for the 40.2s (I think it's rated at 120wpc).

A lower-powered alternative might be the Naim Supernait, though I'm not sure if at 80Wpc it would give you the grunt you're looking for; also going down the Naim route might not be for everyone because of the unique "Naim sound'', fiddly DIN connectors and endless upgrade choices!

 

[Infiniteloop]

Maybe consider a second hand Devialet 200? This will give you plenty of power and the benefits of SAM and digital tone controls should you fancy a twiddle.

 

[iceman16]

Cno, As you like the Arcam sound you can try the A49 (200w@8ohms/400w@4ohms) first 50w in Class-A at a discounted price for £2649( Fanthorpes HiFi)I think that would be sufficient for the Harbs.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno, As you like the Arcam sound you can try the A49 (200w@8ohms/400w@4ohms) first 50w in Class-A at a discounted price for £2649( Fanthorpes HiFi)I think that would be sufficient for the Harbs.

Thx Iceman, but I'm all spent out at the moment.....but it's certainly the sort of Amp I would be considering.

 

[iceman16]

Cno, As you like the Arcam sound you can try the A49 (200w@8ohms/400w@4ohms) first 50w in Class-A at a discounted price for £2649( Fanthorpes HiFi)I think that would be sufficient for the Harbs.

Thx Iceman, but I'm all spent out at the moment.....but it's certainly the sort of Amp I would be considering.

We're the same financially atm but at least you got your speakers and enjoying them. In my case, Im like a guy who planted a seed and wait for 20 yrs to harvest the fruit. I won't be receiving the Ref3 until mid-August. I just wonder why KEF which is well known brand don't make them ready for their customer or at least a couple of pairs in stock and not wait for 8 weeks!

 

[newlash09]

Maybe consider a second hand Devialet 200? This will give you plenty of power and the benefits of SAM and digital tone controls should you fancy a twiddle. 

+1

 

[newlash09]

Having lived with these big Harbeths for a little while, I thought I'd try and describe my impressions.

Most of my posts describing the sound on this thread, have been borne out, having thrown every sort of music at them.

What they do for music, is rather like what a Polarizing Filter does for Landscape Photography. They remove the glare, by allowing the colour richness of the picture to emerge, without being washed out. They give a little more "Meat on the bone".

I have not heard any speaker, at any price, that sounds so natural and "right" with Choral Works, Violins and Opera.

I have heard speakers that sound more open and exciting on non-classical music - and to some extent, you are trading emotional engagement, for outright excitement (a trade off I'm happy to make).....though I have also never heard a speaker, that combines the oft diametrically opposide skill set, of being hugely detailed, yet remarkably forgiving (certainly the most forgiving speaker I've heard).

Who should consider Harbeth?

- Someone whose listening preference includes a high percentage of Classical and Acoustic music.

- Anyone who keeps swapping kit, as no matter what they get, the sound is just a bit too edgy, forward and analytical.

- Older enthusiats, who simply miss the mellower sound they remember from their youth....and just don't get on with the more modern sound.

- Like the feeling of a "Performance", seated a few rows back (rather than right at the front)

Who should (probably) avoid Harbeth?

- Those who like a more forward, highly controlled and more analytical presentation.

- Those who place excitement and a very open/clean presentation, above all else. A more relaxed sound, puts them to sleep.

- People who value a drier, tightly controlled and punchy  Bass.

- Those who strive for absolute neutrality and are prepared to put up with poor recordings sounding truly bad.

- People who are naturally drawn to speakers like Focal and Triangle....and rather like the "Presence Range" in the audio spectrum being slightly elevated - giving the feeling of being a couple of feet from the artist.

 

Are you finding the harbeths to have a tube sound almost. Or is it different from the tube sound that I've heard. I've always associated the words holographic , and organic with tubes. I could be wrong in understanding the sound you are describing .

Will adding tubes to other speakers procedure the harbeth's sound. If it is still different. How can that difference be described. Thanks.

 

[Native_bon]

Having lived with these big Harbeths for a little while, I thought I'd try and describe my impressions.

Most of my posts describing the sound on this thread, have been borne out, having thrown every sort of music at them.

What they do for music, is rather like what a Polarizing Filter does for Landscape Photography. They remove the glare, by allowing the colour richness of the picture to emerge, without being washed out. They give a little more "Meat on the bone".

I have not heard any speaker, at any price, that sounds so natural and "right" with Choral Works, Violins and Opera.

I have heard speakers that sound more open and exciting on non-classical music - and to some extent, you are trading emotional engagement, for outright excitement (a trade off I'm happy to make).....though I have also never heard a speaker, that combines the oft diametrically opposide skill set, of being hugely detailed, yet remarkably forgiving (certainly the most forgiving speaker I've heard).

Who should consider Harbeth?

- Someone whose listening preference includes a high percentage of Classical and Acoustic music.

- Anyone who keeps swapping kit, as no matter what they get, the sound is just a bit too edgy, forward and analytical.

- Older enthusiats, who simply miss the mellower sound they remember from their youth....and just don't get on with the more modern sound.

- Like the feeling of a "Performance", seated a few rows back (rather than right at the front)

Who should (probably) avoid Harbeth?

- Those who like a more forward, highly controlled and more analytical presentation.

- Those who place excitement and a very open/clean presentation, above all else. A more relaxed sound, puts them to sleep.

- People who value a drier, tightly controlled and punchy Bass.

- Those who strive for absolute neutrality and are prepared to put up with poor recordings sounding truly bad.

- People who are naturally drawn to speakers like Focal and Triangle....and rather like the "Presence Range" in the audio spectrum being slightly elevated - giving the feeling of being a couple of feet from the artist.

Are you finding the harbeths to have a tube sound almost. Or is it different from the tube sound that I've heard. I've always associated the words holographic , and organic with tubes. I could be wrong in understanding the sound you are describing .

Will adding tubes to other speakers procedure the harbeth's sound. If it is still different. How can that difference be described. Thanks.

Think thats a very good question there. Be good to really know the distinction between both. *smile*

 

[CnoEvil]

Are you finding the harbeths to have a tube sound almost. Or is it different from the tube sound that I've heard. I've always associated the words holographic , and organic with tubes. I could be wrong in understanding the sound you are describing .

Will adding tubes to other speakers procedure the harbeth's sound. If it is still different. How can that difference be described. Thanks.

That is a good question....but without a straight forward answer - but I will do my best.

There are general aspects/characteristics of the sound, that remind me of a good Valve amp. The glorious mid range, the naturalness on voices/strings and the involvement on an emotional level......but, but, but....

- It depends on what aspects and characteristics you associate with Valve Amps....as good ones are dynamic and exciting and don't have the very rose-tinted, over honeyed sound of yesteryear.

- Valve amps (like SS amps) sound different to each other. At one end, you have the likes of Jadis and Unison Research; at the other, you have VTL....with brands like Pure Sound and Icon Audio in the middle.

- SET sounds different - and even the same amp sounds different playing in Triode vs Ultra Linear

- Different Valves sound different, which gives rise to Tube Rolling

- The speaker you choose, will also (obviously) change the sound....so a Valve Amp will sound different into some Triangles vs some Spendor Classics

- The suitability of the speaker has a big impact.

So with such a moving set of variables, it's hard to give a definitive answer....but I would say Harbeths and Valves are on the same page and are likely to appeal to the same sort of people (as given in my list in my post above).

The problem is, nothing sounds like a Valve Amp, except a Valve amp.....Hybrids come closest, followed by full Class A, follwed by Class G, closely followed by AB rich in Class A.

If what I have said has peaked your interest, go listen and see if you agree.

 

[Macspur]

Thanks for your articulate thoughts as ever Cno... you describe pretty much what I hear from the anniversary model, but with the 40.2 you will be experiencing music on a greater scale.

One can only imagine how good they will sound with a "better" amp.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks for your articulate thoughts as ever Cno... you describe pretty much what I hear from the anniversary model, but with the 40.2 you will be experiencing music on a greater scale.

One can only imagine how good they will sound with a "better" amp.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

Thx Mac.

I know. It's quite a thought.

 

[CnoEvil]

Having lived with these big Harbeths for a little while, I thought I'd try and describe my impressions.

Most of my posts describing the sound on this thread, have been borne out, having thrown every sort of music at them.

What they do for music, is rather like what a Polarizing Filter does for Landscape Photography. They remove the glare, by allowing the colour richness of the picture to emerge, without being washed out. They give a little more "Meat on the bone".

I have not heard any speaker, at any price, that sounds so natural and "right" with Choral Works, Violins and Opera.

I have heard speakers that sound more open and exciting on non-classical music - and to some extent, you get emotional engagement, by trading outright excitement (a trade off I'm happy to make).....though I have also never heard a speaker, that combines the oft diametrically opposide skill set, of being hugely detailed, yet remarkably forgiving (certainly the most forgiving speaker I've heard).

Who should consider Harbeth?

- Someone whose listening preference includes a high percentage of Classical and Acoustic music.

- Anyone who keeps swapping kit, as no matter what they get, the sound is just a bit too edgy, forward and analytical.

- Older enthusiats, who simply miss the mellower sound they remember from their youth....and just don't get on with the more modern sound.

- Like the feeling of a "Performance", seated a few rows back (rather than right at the front)

Who should (probably) avoid Harbeth?

- Those who like a more forward, highly controlled and more analytical presentation.

- Those who place excitement and a very open/clean presentation, above all else. A more relaxed sound, puts them to sleep.

- People who value a drier, tightly controlled and punchy Bass.

- Those who strive for absolute neutrality and are prepared to put up with poor recordings sounding truly bad.

- People who are naturally drawn to speakers like Focal and Triangle....and rather like the "Presence Range" in the audio spectrum being slightly elevated - giving the feeling of being a couple of feet from the artist.

 

[lindsayt]

Thanks CNO. Post #366 is an extremely fair and wise post.

Harbeth, especially the upper end Harbeth divide opinions in exactly the way you've described.

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks CNO. Post #366 is an extremely fair and wise post.

Harbeth, especially the upper end Harbeth divide opinions in exactly the way you've described.

*drinks*

In the real world, HiFi choice is about compromise....and understanding what to compromise is the key to musical enjoyment/satisfaction.

 

[insider9]

Great, balanced write up as always and excellent insight for those who's not had a pleasure to listen to them.

 

[lindsayt]

*drinks*
In the real world, HiFi choice is about compromise....and understanding what to compromise is the key to musical enjoyment/satisfaction.

Yes, and you being able to describe the good and the compromised aspects of the £multi thousand speakers you've just bought in such an eloquent manner demonstrates high levels of integrity, honesty, experience, judgement, impartiality.

Your summary of the Harbeths carries so much more authority than someone saying "Rah, rah, rah! These are the best speakers ever!"

As you've said the Harbeths will be great for some people, whilst for others they will not be the speakers for them.