Node 2/Vault 2/Cambridge Azur/ND5/LinnDS/etc. Streamers

ChemMan

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Fellow listeners,

I am moving out of my computer and into something exclusively digital. I am interested in hearing the audiences experience with streamers. There is no way I will purchase an all in one because I am into a new integrated amp. Speakers will shortly be upgraded to Floor standers in the 3k range. Please feel free to offer an advice, insights or general thoughts about ds machines with onboard DACs. File storage is not a must. I put the vault in there because I am interested as to whether it is hi-fi or utilitarian.

Thanks all
 

CnoEvil

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In case it's of interest, you can knock yourself out with this thread: https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/linn-ds-dsm-thread

On the speaker front, brands I'd suggest keeping a look out for are:

- Dynaudio

- Sonus Faber

- Audio Physic

- Spendor

- JM Reynaud

- Diapason

- Opera
 

Macspur

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Only from what I've read, I believe the Bluesound to be very good, but possibly not as HiFi as the Innuous range... strictly stereo may be able to give a more informed opinion on this

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
 

Strictly Stereo

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Macspur said:
Only from what I've read, I believe the Bluesound to be very good, but possibly not as HiFi as the Innuous range... strictly stereo may be able to give a more informed opinion on this

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

Thanks Mac. None of the Innuos servers have built-in DACs, so the Vault 2 is a rather different proposition.

@ChemMan The Vault 2 sounds exactly like the Node 2, but with built-in CD ripping and music storage. The Node 2 and Vault 2 are certainly hifi and will happily keep up with your A39. Bluesound has the best app of any of the options on your shortlist.

If your budget will stretch to Naim ND5 XS or Linn DS money, then you might also like to consider the Auralic Altair or possibly even the new Vega G1.
 

jjbomber

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ChemMan said:
Fellow listeners,

I am moving out of my computer and into something exclusively digital. I am interested in hearing the audiences experience with streamers.

Leema Acoustics Elements streamer at £1K or Pulse IV at £2K if you want the integrated CD player.
 

insider9

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Not sure if anything like this would interest you. To make it usable you could skip Roon licence and use Daphile (free) making this a fraction of what any of the above streamers cost.

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/my-budget-streamer-roon

Only add DAC of your choice.
 

ChemMan

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....but this is far beyond me. At the end of the day, I am not really an audiophile so to speak. I like good sound and I am a discerning buyer, and that's about it. And because I don't own any audiofiles other than un ripped CDs and whatever I bought from I tunes, I am unsure about just how far to go. If Tidal and Quobuz fail or we get posted to a crappy place with crappy internet in four years, then a streamer becomes not so important.

I like the idea of file storage from a pragmatic perspective and it sounds good to me. I don't mind doing the ripping. But then I read that the way it is ripped and turned into a lossless files varies greatly. Apparently it needs to be read over and over in order to make sure no data is missing. Can my 2010 Macbook pro do this with the rght software? I have no idea.

It seems like the guys/gals in the UK who are posting here and on other forums live in stereo heaven. Not to meantion the sheer number of producers per capita. Boatloads of dealers and a good second hand market means you can try stuff and if you are not happy you have options. I mean if all I can get for my arcam A39 on a dealer trade in is 600 euros when I paid more than double then.... You get the picture.

I have now spent five hours in the demo room and learned that I like four different speakers and they have their strenghts and own price/quality ratios. That's four and only three brands. Who knows what I am missing. I think if I don't hear Dynaudio, Focal, Spendor and Dali Opticon, etc., maybe I am missing something? I want to do the same with the steamers, but there is always a problem: "we sell it, but don't have a demo piece," "t's at the other store, we just sold it." There is no way to explain how poorly the Linn Sekret performed alongside the Bluesound Node 2 yesterday. I have no idea what the settings are like,or if he did this: ANALOGUE OUTPUTS[/b] (RCA, variable/fixed level) - To connect to a preamplifier (or power amplifier when internal volume control is enabled) with unbalanced (RCA) analogue inputs. From Linn Website. it's more than double the price and had half the quality. So now all I have heard is my computer vs. sonos connect and node 2. I don't mind spending the money on a quality product but to make it happen--That's another issue altogether.

I am a scientist(chemist) by training, so ideally, everything needs to set up where there is only one independent variable and I am a little frustrated as you can imagine, and tha's why I have turned to the voices who know things like the people on this forum. If only the American preisdent would do the same. :)

Sorry for all the posts and questions.
 
I can’t recall where you live, and that will hugely influence what you buy, I’m sure. Here in Blighty, the basic Linn Sneaky Music DS I just bought secondhand cost me just over £400, and it’s still under warranty. The original owner moved to an Innuos Zenith with a Chord Hugo DAC.

I use the Linn mainly for Qobuz and BBC radio. I think that, or a Logitech Squeezebox Touch, if you’re a bit more computer literate, is a thrifty way into streaming. There’s always the Chromecast audio for £30 if you want a bargain option. I’ve used all three.

https://www.whathifi.com/linn/sneaky-music-ds/review

https://www.whathifi.com/logitech/squeezebox-touch/review

https://www.whathifi.com/google/chromecast-audio/review

PS. You’ll see I also use floorstanders in the price range you are interested in.
 

ChemMan

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...so my options are two different bidding sites. Ebay and 2dehands.be

the biggest shop in country I was in over the weekend had plenty of second hand gear, but zero streamers.
 

CnoEvil

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Can you fill the stands with Kiln Dried sand and see what happens to the scale of the LS50s....surely worth trying at the cost.

Mine sounded great in a room 14' W x21' L x11' H, with a decent amount of scale.
 

CnoEvil

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nopiano said:
https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Linn-Sneaky-DS-digital-streamer-amplifier-fair-condition-Krescendo-HiFi/113150732007?hash=item1a584f26e7:g:r8IAAOSwLlpZuSAl

From the UK!

*good*

That's where my money would go - but I would say that, wouldn't I. *angel*
 

ChemMan

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The price is not bad. But the part I don't undersatnd is, if it has 20 watts in an amplifier, how am I supposed to plug this into my integrated amp?

Then again this goes against everything related to: "hearing is believing."

What do both of you think about what happened this weekend? In my mind, there is just no way the sekrit ds could be outperformed by the bluesound node2. Plus, why would the owner of the store want to sell me something for half the price of something else. There has to be some sort of setup that must occur from the app. He just ran upstairs, came back with it and plugged it in to the back of the A39.
 

ChemMan

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about Linn ds from 2011. You were advsing another fellow living in Brussels. Fun.

Kiln dried, doubtful. I will try and find some landscaping sand and dry it out on the terrace. Rather warm here right now. Yet hearing the floorstanders, 703s, next to the LS 50 on stands in the demo room was very revealing. There wasn't much of a contest. Sure turn the LS 50s up louder and they sound great. Low volume was/is a diiferent ball game.
 
ChemMan said:
The price is not bad. But the part I don't undersatnd is, if it has 20 watts in an amplifier, how am I supposed to plug this into my integrated amp?

Then again this goes against everything related to: "hearing is believing."

What do both of you think about what happened this weekend? In my mind, there is just no way the sekrit ds could be outperformed by the bluesound node2. Plus, why would the owner of the store want to sell me something for half the price of something else. There has to be some sort of setup that must occur from the app. He just ran upstairs, came back with it and plugged it in to the back of the A39.
It has RCA phono line level outputs, just like a CD player. You can adjust the level remotely if you choose, or set it as fixed. You can also disengage the amp section. That’s how I use mine. The amp just makes it handy if you want to connect some speakers, like for a kitchen or study.

I’ve no idea what happened in your demo. There are too many variables. But the Sneaky is a reasonable cost way to explore streaming, and Linn’s forum is full of useful stuff as is their own Docs database.

http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Sneaky_Music_DS
 

CnoEvil

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ChemMan said:
about Linn ds from 2011. You were advsing another fellow living in Brussels. Fun.

Kiln dried, doubtful. I will try and find some landscaping sand and dry it out on the terrace. Rather warm here right now. Yet hearing the floorstanders, 703s, next to the LS 50 on stands in the demo room was very revealing. There wasn't much of a contest. Sure turn the LS 50s up louder and they sound great. Low volume was/is a diiferent ball game.

Spread it out in an oven tray...it doesn't take that long.

My adventure: https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/adventures-eccentric-irish-hi-fi-enthusiast
 

ChemMan

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Done. Too bad I can’t easily post a photo. The 21 month old just HAD to do it. Both stands have now increased in mass by 5 kg. Sound improvement? Maybe. Probably

The LS 50s just sound damn good above at 35 and above. It’s this region between 20 and 30. Somebody just needs to come listen to it and tell me I am full of something.

Any takers? My wine cellar is superlative and i share. l*dirol*
 

spiny norman

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ChemMan said:
I like the idea of file storage from a pragmatic perspective and it sounds good to me. I don't mind doing the ripping. But then I read that the way it is ripped and turned into a lossless files varies greatly. Apparently it needs to be read over and over in order to make sure no data is missing. Can my 2010 Macbook pro do this with the rght software? I have no idea.

Yes, it can, using software such as XLD which, despite the name of X Lossless Decoder, can also be used to rip/import CDs. You set the 'number of retries' in the ripping part of the preferences pane, and then just leave it to it. The software will then rips the CD, retrying if it finds any parts of the disc it thinks it may have misread. It works seamlessly, in my experience.

ChemMan said:
There is no way to explain how poorly the Linn Sekret performed alongside the Bluesound Node 2 yesterday. I have no idea what the settings are like,or if he did this: ANALOGUE OUTPUTS (RCA, variable/fixed level) - To connect to a preamplifier (or power amplifier when internal volume control is enabled) with unbalanced (RCA) analogue inputs. From Linn Website. it's more than double the price and had half the quality. So now all I have heard is my computer vs. sonos connect and node 2. I don't mind spending the money on a quality product but to make it happen--That's another issue altogether.

In which case it sounds like the Node is more for you than the Linn, but there are plenty of other choices out there on the usual secondhand websites: look, for example, at the various Marantz network players available used, such as the NA6005 or the more upmarket NA8005, or even the earlier NA7004. All of these can be found online at the £500 mark or less, either as ex-demonstration or used buys
 

ChemMan

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Indeed I am, with a Velodyne 10 inch. I am beginning to wonder if it is because there isn't a wall anywhere near the LS 50s. Right now, I am typing from behind the system in order for Tidal to play and it's not bad at all. Listening to Hadouk trio. I also notice that when I stand up from my primary listening seat, the bass is fuller. I realize the low frequency wavelenghts diffract well, but I place the speakers at exactly tweeter height to my ears: 92 cm when seated.
 

CnoEvil

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As you walk around the room, there will be areas where bass is light and where bass collects.

How far from back and side walls are the speakers?

Are they Blu-Tak's with small Pea sized pieces.

Are the Stands totally stable, with no back and forth movement.
 

ChemMan

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The room is funny. Hard to describe in words.

Two glass walls 10 m each that are perpendicular to each other. The rest is a bit of an L with the short end being just two meters. In betwen is a fireplace: Below: Side View

l -2m- l Hi FI Equip l__Fire__l sub Primary Seat Glassback wall

<------------------------------------10 m------------------------------->

Hardwood floor here with rugs

Speakers are stable, and on plinths. Plinths are on pennies. Speaker sits on the four rubber rings provided by Kef directly on the cast iron plate that is the stand.

Imagine a 20 cm elevated fireplace in the middle of the room with a chimney, the whole shot. NIce stone "altar" in front of the fireplace and the speakers sit on 25on both sides of this 20 cm stone bit. They are 2.3m apart with the sub between them on granite slab. There is nothing behind them for 2m on the left and 4m on the right.

Tomorrow I am going to rotate the setup ninety degress and move the seat farther back.
 

CnoEvil

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I'm beginning to get the picture, but a little confused.....a photo would be brilliant.

Anyway, my advise is to experiment with cheap stuff eg.

- Replace rubber rings with Blu-Tak under speakers

- Try putting Plinths on the rubber rings (if that's possible)...or some wooden floor felt feet, if it isn't

- Blu-Tak helps to isolate and hold in place

- There is no doubt that being closer to a wall will reinforce the bass....but most people don't have enough room for their speakers to Breathe - and is why they sound so good when turned up a bit

- There are certain things the LS50s do better than the R Series - Speed/Clarity/Imaging - and you really like them....so it's worth a bit of messing about before changing them.

- FWIW. I had mine on Valhalla Pads (with a little Blu Tak on the stands....and the bottom of the stands blu-Tak'd to a Granite Plinth. They sat on carpet, which was on a suspended wooden floor, which is nightmare (but this worked great)

Report back with results, because I feel you may be close to getting what you need.
 

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