Node 2/Vault 2/Cambridge Azur/ND5/LinnDS/etc. Streamers

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ChemMan

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"..a bit like comparing a beautifully designed, gloss black electric violin, with a slightly battered Stradivarious. One causes your jaw to fall open in awe; the other has you in tears. Give me the latter every time."

You wrote this in your upgrade post. When I saw the Czech national symphony perform The Beatles this was the case. Full, rich wonderfully evocative sound that pushed me to tears three of four times. Had to hide it.

That's what I want all the time. With that said, and I have said it more than once here:

I now know the absolute most important thing in all of this is that the quality of the recording itself makes the most difference. IMO no amount of money spent on fancy equipment or so called hi-res tracks can change the original recording. You can put perfume on a pig but it's still a pig.

So that's why my real plan is, with technology changing so fast, to take a bit of a wait and see approach. I will also wait on the external DAC and turn my attention to the music for awhile.

My logical thought process works backward. Because with amps and speakers I can hear an immediate and pronounced difference, I would change that first. As I mentioned before in regard to diminshing returns, will I get 4 times the sound from the Linn majik to the Bluesound? No chance. Plus there is the technological change of pace idea. So that leads me to speakers and amp. The same law of diminshing returns applies still, but I think the differences in sound are greater. Not by multiples of course, but greater. I've heard some twenty different souces over the last month and nothing was earth shatteringly better. The Naim nd5 was the most expensive and the sonos the least.

Mainly, the Boenicke is really just intriguing because of the engineering. The price though, here is where the WAF factor would go way up. Plus they are untenable with a two-year old walking around. Something more realistic might be the Special 40s or a floorstander. My next session with floorstanders will be in two weeks. The only ones I remember are the focal aria and the sonus faber 3.0. He has two more for me i just can't recall the names. I don't want to go above 3500, and I am in no rush, because you know I love my LS50s. I won't sell them anyway, so I would probably just leave them up next to a floor stander and switch for fun!

And yes, I know I can use an upgrade in the amplifier department, but I can't get anything for the A39 it or at least not much. I hear you both when you talk about system matching. I rolled the dice with LS50s and Kef's and got lucky since I bought both without hearing them. Yet I read enough about them being put together in demos, and I also own an old A75 Diva. I've always been a loyalty guy--stick with what you know works. Matching for a non-audiophile is hard, but that's why I have you fellows. :)
 

ChemMan

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...I meant you as well as Cno. You guys have been super helpful thus far. I spent the afternoon reading about some dude you got rid of his Kefs and bought Harbeth. There is lots of good info in there for people who want to know. Now I am embarking on finding a primer on the techincal jargon associated with speakers, i.e, sensitivity and frequency response. Amps will be next, so I don't have to overly rely on you guys for everything regarding system matching. Cheers
 

insider9

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I wish I could have contributed more to this thread. Unfortunately my experience with sources is somewhat limited, but guys have provided great advice and I think you've done really well arriving at a product that not only matches your needs but sounds great.
 

CnoEvil

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If you want emotion, Harbeth has to be on your demo list.

Re. Source. This is a hard message to convey, as it is something you must hear for yourself...and when you do, it is a bit of an eye-opener...As I pointed out above, as the Amp/Speakers get more revealing, so the Source has to keep up. As for diminishing returns, they are always there....and only you can put a value on that, in the context of whatever system you are using.

Sensitivity - is how loud your speakers will sound at a set measure...and since it's a logarithmic scale, there is a big difference between values.

Frequency Response - I am far from technical....but as I hate forward Treble, I look for speakers that either measure flat above about 3kHz, or dip slightly. If I see a rise here, the speakers have a pushed forward Presence Region, to make them sound initially exciting and detailed over a short period.....but if you are like me, it becomes fatiguing over a longer session and can for example, make violins sound a bit screechy.

The other thing to look out for, is the FR should be measured at +or- 3dB, to get a true reading. Frequency Range is different.
 

ChemMan

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about how you think the Harbeths are like sitting in the sixth row vs the Kefs which are in the front row. I think we have similar ideas about what sound should convey and musical taste in general. I concur with your views on treble and frequency response. I read you are considering the A49 integrated. Clearly you think highly of the sound/company. I heard Arcam is getting ready to discontinue the line and that is why stuff is on sale.

Fortunately I have a science background so when I looked up some of the technical specs, I realized that SPL and the sensitivity are related somewhat to pH and molarity. It made instant sense that an increase of 3 dB requires a doubling. This also tells me why two years ago you recommended to me to get the money for the A39, the LS 50s, though small, are not super easy to drive, plus the benefit of 20W in class A at low volumes. I took advantage of the Brexit related effects on currency and got a better deal in the UK than I could in Europe.

The reason I am still looking at upgrading is because we are in a good situation with a break on VAT. Hence my long explanation on how I was thinking. I will sit awhile and listen to more of that Jacques Loussier plays Bach. really nice. Thanks
 

ChemMan

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Any thoughts on cables? This type four speaker cable from Audioquest is bargain basement. I have something decent from CD player RCA to amp. I just moved that to the Node. All power cables to all my gear are stock provided with purchase. Maybe this needs a new post with a budget?
 

CnoEvil

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ChemMan said:
I read you are considering the A49 integrated. Clearly you think highly of the sound/company. I heard Arcam is getting ready to discontinue the line and that is why stuff is on sale.

This was the start of my interest in both the A49 and Ref 3s:

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/if-i-was-starting-again
 

CnoEvil

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ChemMan said:
Any thoughts on cables? This type four speaker cable from Audioquest is bargain basement. I have something decent from CD player RCA to amp. I just moved that to the Node. All power cables to all my gear are stock provided with purchase. Maybe this needs a new post with a budget?

Yes I have views on cables - but I can only stress these are simply my opinion, based on my experience....and everything I say should be personally checked out before money changes hands (or the ability to return).

- Power Cords are worth checking out - cheaper on Source and a bit more expensive on amp...I recommend Clearer Audio, with their 60 day return period.

- I would look at Telurium Q cabling....borrow some Black, if possible (or Ultra Blue if the Black don't justify the cost)

- Cables should take what you like about your system and improve on it...like good seasoning....and don't spend more on them, than would bring a bigger improvement by spending that amount elsewhere. ie. It needs to be a VFM improvement and not change what you like about your system.

- Don't take anybody's word as gospel and (obviously) don't spend money unless you are very convinced of the benefit.
 

insider9

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ChemMan said:
Any thoughts on cables? This type four speaker cable from Audioquest is bargain basement. I have something decent from CD player RCA to amp. I just moved that to the Node. All power cables to all my gear are stock provided with purchase. Maybe this needs a new post with a budget?

My advice would be to keep what you have and look into acoustic room treatment. This will give you a universal improvement whatever system you put in the room. From value for money perspective it won't wear out and will be with you for decades. If you do it right it could be the biggest upgrade to your system, particularly from value for money perspective.
 

CnoEvil

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insider9 said:
My advice would be to keep what you have and look into acoustic room treatment. This will give you a universal improvement whatever system you put in the room. From value for money perspective it won't wear out and will be with you for decades. If you do it right it could be the biggest upgrade to your system, particularly from value for money perspective.

...and it's good advice - but the problem comes when the hifi is in the family living area and thus achieving your goal, without giving it the appearance of a recording studio, upsetting the aesthetics of the room or indeed, the Leader of the Opposition. *unknw*
 

insider9

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I know it's easier to sneak in a few cables than to hang a few panels on the wall. It can be done with taste if looks are important

images
 

CnoEvil

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insider9 said:
I know it's easier to sneak in a few cables than to hang a few panels on the wall. It can be done with taste if looks are important

Who are you you telling. *wink*

- The walls have to be in the right place to hang the panels, if the room is an awkward shape.
 

ChemMan

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...I am not sure what room treatment is other than possibly diffusers or something along these lines. It is in the living area and will always be that way. We move every four years and will live in apartments or small houses. Music is part of my life and has been since I was a kid. I can remember Ampzilla, Dahlquist, Linn Sonder, Nakamichi Dragon, Creek, etc. In the living area is what I know. We have wood floors and lots of carpets and plenty of wall hangings. Throw in a bunch of exotic wood furniture from overseas and viola. You get the picture.

The real boss actually enjoyed when I changed the orientation of the apartment to get the current benefits. To be fair, with the addition of the node and all the new quality recordings, things sound pretty good right now. That's why I was thinking about better cables. I would be dead however if it were not for the sub. It really adds depth to the sound. A fellow posted some time ago concerning the type four that I have and said, if the bass sounds lean, the cables could be changed.

Is there anything good/bad about raw/bare wiring to the amp and speaker or should banana clips be used? I was under the impression that adding more material for the electrons to pass through was not recommended.
 

CnoEvil

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ChemMan said:
Is there anything good/bad about raw/bare wiring to the amp and speaker or should banana clips be used? I was under the impression that adding more material for the electrons to pass through was not recommended.

Using bare wire is a bit of a torture to connect and oxidizes over time, so a connection (Banana Plug or Spades) are prefereable imo. It's not worth worrying about (and I worry about everything).
 

andyjm

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CnoEvil said:
ChemMan said:
Is there anything good/bad about raw/bare wiring to the amp and speaker or should banana clips be used? I was under the impression that adding more material for the electrons to pass through was not recommended.

Using bare wire is a bit of a torture to connect and oxidizes over time, so a connection (Banana Plug or Spades) are prefereable imo. It's not worth worrying about (and I worry about everything).

Its all about the resistance of the connection, not the number of connections - although the more steps in the chain you have, the more chance to have problems.

Banana plugs are generally rubbish. Poor contact pressure and low contact area.

If want to use a termination, spade terminals correctly soldered to the cable with the connection done up tight on the binding post is about the best you can do.

Bare wire is OK, but it needs to be tight to form a gas tight connection (to avoid oxidation) and that is tough to do throughout the strand bundle. One stray strand shorting across the terminals (more of a problem at the amplifier end where space is tight) could be expensive.
 

andyjm

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ChemMan said:
Any thoughts on cables? This type four speaker cable from Audioquest is bargain basement. I have something decent from CD player RCA to amp. I just moved that to the Node. All power cables to all my gear are stock provided with purchase. Maybe this needs a new post with a budget?

You mentioned you had a science background. Do a bit of googling on the impact mains cables have on the output of audio equipment (staying away from the reports written by those with commercial interest in the subject), and with your new found knowledge use the money you save by not buying new cables to get youself a few beers and congratulate yourself for not having fallen into a marketing trap.

There are two rules with speaker cables:

1. Keep them short.

2. Keep them thick.

The rest is just marketing. Good luck.
 

ChemMan

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Free beer for Andy! Archimago does it again. http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/02/measurements-power-cable-redux.html

To summarize: he tested a generic extension cord and left over adpator from "something black" against a Synergistic Research with active shielding. (CAD 2800) NO difference. Talk about snake oil. He also Tested a Belkin PureAv power conditioner against a power strip with surge protection. NO difference. Once I was familiar with the tesing units, this was nothing more than the physcal properties of copper wire. Quantitative, single varaible testing does not lie.

Thanks Bro
 

CnoEvil

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ChemMan said:
Free beer for Andy! Archimago does it again. http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/02/measurements-power-cable-redux.html

To summarize: he tested a generic extension cord and left over adpator from "something black" against a Synergistic Research with active shielding. (CAD 2800) NO difference. Talk about snake oil. He also Tested a Belkin PureAv power conditioner against a power strip with surge protection. NO difference. Once I was familiar with the tesing units, this was nothing more than the physcal properties of copper wire. Quantitative, single varaible testing does not lie.

Thanks Bro

All I will say, is it's worth trying for yourself, if you don't have to commit. If you find it's Snake Oil, send them back.

Have a read of this, just in case it has any validity:

https://www.essentialsound.com/power-cable-technology.htm

FWIW. This is not about insisting Power Cords make a difference.....it's simply about suggesting you try it and thus come to your own conclusions - and whatever you hear is fine by me.
 

andyjm

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CnoEvil said:
Have a read of this, just in case it has any validity:

https://www.essentialsound.com/power-cable-technology.htm

I will save everyone the effort of reading this, it has no validity.

It starts off badly, then goes downhill from there. The second sentance talks about the coax cables used to carry power from the powerstation. Coax?
 

CnoEvil

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ChemMan said:
No, it's a live recording "Baldamore" And if you like Classical vivaldi https://tidal.com/album/16944099 Dutch violin prodigy/virtuoso: Shockingly good. But nothing, at the moment, do I want to hear other than the man in a long black coat. Why is no one making recordings like this? 29 years old that recording is. No once cares about old time rock and roll. Heart breaking.

Can you give me more details on the Vivaldi. Thx.
 

ChemMan

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as soon as he wrote: This distortion is not comprehended by existing performance metrics. I nearly lost my lunch. Apparently we can't measure things like THD?
 

ChemMan

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[/quote]

Can you give me more details on the Vivaldi. Thx.

[/quote]

Sure: Janine Jansen Vivaldi: The Four Seasons. She has a her sister and father on it with her. I don't know why the Tidal link does not work properly.
 

CnoEvil

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ChemMan said:
I can't figure out that quote block. Shocking to think I used to be the go to Tech guy at work.

Just press the Quote tab under the post you wish to quote...and make sure you start your message after the "[/quote]" denoting the end of the section being quoted.

-------------------------------------------

On a different note, you might enjoy this:

4198b69tlsL.jpg
 

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