new turntable setup - advice please

[rainsoothe]

hi - a short while ago i posted a question regarding a phonostage to match clearaudio, but in the meantime my monetary situation has changed a bit, so I need to go a bit lower. Also, some aspects of my question were unanswered, so I'll try to sum everything up in this post.

i'm a newbie with turntables. Basically I want to get into vinyl currently trying to find advice on stuff, since it's impossible for me to get home-dem OR audition the TTs I'm interested in with the phono stages I'm interested in (not a lot of hi-fi stores in my country).

CURRENT SETUP: I'm currently running a Naim Dac V1 into a Supernait 2 into Martin Logan Motion 40 floorstanders (which will be upgraded with NACA5 speaker cable, and, maybe, a TeddyCap).

1. Although I have only auditioned a Clearaudio Concept (with Trigon phono stage), I decided that I can't afford it yet, so I'm looking for lower priced TTs. My mind is currently set on Pro-ject 1Xpression III Confort, but I want to audition a Rega RP3 as well (I haven't auditioned the Pro-ject yet either).

So the first question is Pro-ject 1Xpression III Confort vs Rega RP3 vs Technics SL1200 (which, ofc, I can't audition). Is the Technics really worth the hassle (since it will be 2nd hand and I have no TT knowledge), is it that much better then the new Pro-ject/Rega?

Which one do you prefer and how would you describe them compared to one another?

2. Only the dealer that has the Rega has a better phono-stage offering, so the way I'm gonna do it is chose a phono-stage first, then visit the pro-ject dealer with the phonostage i choose to listen the Pro-ject on it as well. So, regarding the phono-stage, i have two questions:

a) how much, compared to the TT, should a phonostage cost? I've read good things about the Clearaudio Basic +, so it's the one I currently set my mind on, but would it be overkill for a TT that cost just as much? Or does that not apply since it would make any TT sound better?

b) as alternatives, how are the Clearaudio Nano V2, Musical Fidelity V90LPS (which I can audition) or a Lehmann Black Cube, combined with the metioned TTs and the SN2?

Also I'm open to any suggestions. I'm gonna mention that the only other TT's in my pricebracket that my dealers have are Thorens and Denon (and maybe the new VPI that's gonna be launched, although the VPI dealers only have Scout upwards, not even Traveler, let alone the Nomad)

the music I listen to kinda varies, but it's mostly rock or progressive rock/metal, electronica, and sometimes classical. Pink Floyd, Genesis, Dream Theater, Transatlantic, Porcupine Tree, Joe Cocker, Zero 7 to mention a few. I like a warm-ish sound, that sort of envelops you like velvet, a bit holographic, but that is also really fast (wihout being bright) - if that makes any sense.

thanks

 

[iMark]

I haven't invested in an expensive phono stage. We use the phono stage in our Yamaha stereo receiver and that gives a very nice sound to our ears. I can recommend the Project 1Xpression III Comfort, especially because it has a built-in speed box and it has a very decent Ortofon 2MRed cartridge, upgradable to 2MBlue with a stylus change in future.

As always with audio, getting from a very decent setup to high end is extremely expensive. A very decent setup is already much better than anything most people have. Tinkering is great, but listening to music is even better and I would rather spend money on LPs than on an expensive phono amp.

We only tend to buy new stuff if something goes wrong with a component or if it is completely obsolete, like a CRT television.

 

[Teo]

First of all , if you're new on this vinyl thing , don't hurry ! Take your time ,if you can and have fellow friends with TTs listen to their sistems and get info from them. A great source of info you can find here : http://www.vinylengine.com/ , http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ttadjust.html , http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/td124page.html (go on various windows opend from the right or down of the page ) , http://vinylnirvana.com/tip-of-the-week/ , take your time , read the forums and research a bit ( more ! ) getting into vinyl means that you have to learn what's about in the game , even you are going to prefer after that a more simple and plugandplay solution , or a more tweackable one . Take care , don't put your hands on the surface of the record ( I saw some..... |( >) :bounce: :doh: :wall: persons thet are doing that on some videos .That kills the vinyl.

Of course you'll find great guys and informed people here also , you'll get great advice from our clleagues here too .

Now , I'll say that you have also to pay attention and get the best cartridge you can afford (AND FITS to theARM) and I can't comment also about the stages because I didn't heared them myself , but you'll find info here , on this forum and on some of those I suggested ,I was persnally interssed in this stage problem . Pay attention the Black Cube has some variants that look very similar , some are cheaper (Statement),and I suppose they don't sound the same. Best thing demo if you can. For now , I use a more pedestrian phono stage than your propositions , a Cambridge 640P but I am looking for an upgrade too .

For the beginning , I'd say the RP3 is a good one I saw one with minor cosmetic faults at a vg price on the auction site. I'd go with the RP3 ,you'll get a good tt with a great tonearm ,the same as the one on the RP6 (would be great if you could afford the RP6 directly -can't you stretch a bit ?) but without the TT-PSU power supply electronic speed change of the RP6( it seems to me that can be upgraded later ? ) and the aluminium subplatter (can be upgraded also , later ) You could get a manufacturer refurbished RP3 at 359 L( look on the UK ebay ) and the difference to use for upgrades (subplatter and especially TT-PSU ).

It's a very good option for a starter .Plugandpaly.
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[nima]

Why not Naim Stageline? That plus RP3 + AT120E and you can start seriously enjoying vinyl. Spend the rest on some LPs.

 

[rainsoothe]

hi and thanks for the tips so far

regarding the Stageline - i read that it doesn't sound all that good, but I guess it won't hurt giving it a try

about Regas - i'm a bit concerned about the regas for two reasons: 1st is the fact that, if i understand correctly, if you wanna use a non-rega cart u need to fiddle with some tonearm spacer and 2ndly, after seeing so much Rega hype on all websites, when listening to Rega (Brio R AND Osiris with SPendor speakers) i was really dissapointed, and I found the Rega sound to be boxy and lifeless. Maybe it was the pairing, i dunno. But I'm willing to audition one anyway.

 

[rainsoothe]

i'm also wondering wether the Clearudio Basic + phono stage isn't a bit too expensive for the setup I wanna build, and currently looking at Musical Fidelity V90 LPS (anyone got any experience with it?), and waiting for the VPI Scout Junior and VPI Nomad to come out.

Also - no Pro-Ject users?

 

[Teo]

I use my RB 250 Rega tonearm with a Benz Micro MC cart that fits perfectly ,no problem .If you want various settings for a tonearm ( wich isn't particularily what a newbie needs) than the SL 1210 gives a greater degree of settings .Don't know that pro-ject arm. I agree that the thing that I don't like about the Rega tonearm is the fact that you can't swap the cartridges easily ,not having a removable headshell. It compensates with the sound quality.

 

[nima]

regarding the Stageline - i read that it doesn't sound all that good, but I guess it won't hurt giving it a try

I belive the only reason Stageline in not more popular is that it needs power supply. Since you can power it with your SN, I think you absolutely have to give MM version a try. Cart preferences with Stageline might be little different than with Rega Fono. I'm sure your Naim dealer will be happy to help and i think you wouldn't be dissapointed with the combo I suggested above.

 

[Al ears]

hi and thanks for the tips so far

regarding the Stageline - i read that it doesn't sound all that good, but I guess it won't hurt giving it a try

about Regas - i'm a bit concerned about the regas for two reasons: 1st is the fact that, if i understand correctly, if you wanna use a non-rega cart u need to fiddle with some tonearm spacer and 2ndly, after seeing so much Rega hype on all websites, when listening to Rega (Brio R AND Osiris with SPendor speakers) i was really dissapointed, and I found the Rega sound to be boxy and lifeless. Maybe it was the pairing, i dunno. But I'm willing to audition one anyway.

You do not understand correctly.

Most cartridges will not require the use of spacers. Some really deep bodied ones like the Ortofon Kontrapunkts will.

Regards phono stages you can get some very reasonable ones now if you plan to stick with a Moving Magnet type cartridge. Anything by Graham Slee or the likes of the Trichord Dino should be all you need without going too expensive. Do not get a cheap cartridge however, this is where your money needs to be spent.