New to HiDef, and looking for advice

[admin_exported]

I'm considering a purchase of a HiDef TV, but I'm a bit out of the loop as to the state of the tech, and was hoping that someone could offer advice.

I've been running a 32" Sony Wega CRT for about 6 years, and I'm very happy with it. Unfortunately, due to a room layout change the TV is now against a flat wall (instead of a corner), so its 60cm depth is a bit intrusive.

The change also means I'll be sitting 3-4m away, instead of 2-3m, so I'm tempted by a 40-42" set.

I'd like to go for a Full HD unit, as it would be nice to be able to use it as a monitor on occasion, and eventually I'd like to set up a PC with a Blu-Ray drive, and use it as a hidef player (and possibly recorder).

For the moment, I'd mainly be feeding it SD DVD images (probably via HDMI) and Freeview (via RGB SCART from a Topfield PVR).

I've seen a lot of discussion about the Panasonic TH-42PZ85B, almost all of it very positive - particularly noting that it does a good job of SD material. Given that I'll be sitting a good distance from the screen, how could I expect it to compare to the Sony? Is it just a case that the larger screen shows the Freeview artifacts more obviously, or is the resolution scaling an issue?

Also recommended to me have been the 40" Samsung LE40A656A and the Toshiba 40ZF355DB. Both are LCD (vs Plasma for the Panasonic). I see the Samsung has had a 5 star review on this site. Does anyone have experience of these sets, and how they may compare with the Pana?

Many thanks!

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Hi there , I have the 42"PZ85 and it's an excellent tv. I upgraded from a 7-8 year old 32"Pany quintrix crt. I sit about 3m away from mine and sd looks very good, I would say the picture is as good and maybe even slightly better than my old crt. The only time you notice a drop in quality on sd is if you get closer than 6ft.

DVD's scaled up from my PS3 look very impresive, and blueray looks amazing. After setting up the tv with the THX optimizer on the star wars dvd I watched Spiderman2 on blueray. The picture quality just blows me away, on the close up shots of Toby Maguire you can see every eye lash and hair on his head. Even skin blemish's and the texture of his skin. Fast motion scenes look fantastic, and even night time scenes look amazing. To say the picture looks life like is an understatement. You have to touch the screen just to make sure it's not real. Even from a few inch's away the picture was stunning.

The sound is very good by flat screen standards, especially in the VIVA BBE virtual surround mode.

Plasma's are alot better at motion handiling and have far darker blacks than even the best lcd. My Pany claims a response time of 0.001m seconds, much much faster than the best lcd's. And unlike lcd's I have seen no motion blur what so ever. Even football looks good, well on the BBC that is. ITV's picture quality leaves a lot to be desired. One of the worst channels on sky/freeview.

My brother has a 40"(W2000 I think) Sony Bravia lcd, and my Plasma is a HUGE step up in quality.

At 3-4m away you might even be ok with a 46" . Although it goes without saying that everyone's tastes vary. So if you can try and have a look at the different sizes in a store at your viewing distance and see what you think.

Alot of people on here have bought there tv's from John Lewis. Get a price match with Sound and Vision in Bolton and not only will they match the low price, but you will get a free 5 year warranty as well. Around £1000 for the 42"PZ85. £300 less than retail.

I was originally going to get a Sony Bravia lcd, but after reading the posts on here I went for a plasma. Im glad a listened to their advice. Plasma really is the best way to go at 37"+ .

Hope this helps , also have a look at the other PZ85 posts in the tv section. Lots of advice and setup help etc.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello sploo. The Panasonic TH-42PZ85B is indeed a super tv, and it's very impressive when displaying high-def content. And you will be pleased to hear that it definitely does do a superb job displaying standard-def content too. In fact, if you are sitting a good three or four metres from the screen, then you will probably find that the tv displays standard-def nearly flawlessly, as it is only when you sit close to a screen that standard-def content can start to look ropey, although no matter how close you sit to this great Panasonic, it's performance could never be described as "ropey!"

Whether or not the Panasonic will do a better job (with standard-def material) than your Sony Wega CRT is hard to say, because CRT tvs and flatscreen tvs display images that are quite different. If you put your Sony next to the Panasonic, and looked closely, you would find that the image on the Sony would be cleaner, but probably less stable and has a trace of flicker (although a tiny amount), due to it's interlaced nature. The Panny's image is more stable because it displays a progressive image, but you would notice more noise and some distortion, due to the original picture having to be upscaled (and de-interlaced) to fit it's high-def resolution.

So yes, the need for upscaling on the Panny does cause more artefacts, not just the fact that it is a bigger screen. Considering what I have said about the two tellies showing images that are different, whether the Panny plasma or the Sony CRT displays a better picture is a matter of personal taste. Though in my opinion, when viewing from a proper distance, the Panasonic delivers the most satisfying standard-def picture. And with high-def, the Panny displays an image that's really brilliant and incredibly enjoyable to behold!

As for the other tvs that you mention, well, I haven't seen them enough times and in enough detail to pass any judgement, although I reckon that the Panasonic plasma delivers such a good picture, and such a sharp picture, especially with high-def, that I don't think you need to look any further. Good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

Many thanks for the replies - lots of very useful info.

It's good to hear that the SD reproduction is decent.

I know what you mean about ITV picture quality; watching F1 races on Freeview is macroblock central!

A few friends I've spoken to have expressed surprise that I've not been considering an LCD. The general gist was that most manufacturers are moving away from plasma, but what people are saying on this forum indicates that plasmas have a number of advantages over LCD (though granted the plasmas have caveats like burn in and heat).

Someone on another forum has advised looking at the 46", though I'm not sure my budget will stretch that far. I've found a place with the 46", so I'm going to take a look tomorrow. I've not found the 42" yet, but I presume the only difference is just the screen size?

 

[SpiceWeasel]

As far as I am aware the 42" and 46" PZ85 are identiclal apart from the screen size. Sometimes different sizes in the same model get different reviews in the magazine. But I am very impresed with mine.

As for the burn in/image retention myths, well I havn't noticed anything with my tv. Even after a 6.5 hour gaming session there was no issues what so ever.

As for the heat well the phosphurs in a plasma are at their hottest/brightest during the 1st 100 hours or so. Mine was reasonably warm when brand new but now runs alot cooler now it's 3 weeks old and has about 100 hours on it.

You'll be fine with a 42" though. Obviously it depends what you like and your budget.

Plasma's are here to stay, I know Pioneer are going to be making lcd's but at the smaller screen sizes. They will still be making plasma's, with the panels not produced in house any more. They will be sourcing the panels from Panasonic for next years models. At bigger than 37" plasma is king.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I've just been to a few shops, and seen the TH-42PZ85B (plus some of the other PX and/or 80 variants) in Comet and Currys.

I also went to a better regarded local electrical retailer, and saw the TH-46PZ85B. Comet and Currys didn't have the 46", and my local place didn't have any of the 42".

I'm now slightly confused/worried. At both Comet and Currys I wasn't at all impressed with the TH-42PZ85B. Freeview pictures were terrible - really soft and muddy (from various channels). Upscaled DVD was almost worse - any fine text was blocky, but smeared. Images from Blu-Ray were better, but within about 3 feet of the set I could see lots of 'crawling' - a bit like dithering images down (thinking back to when computers could only display 16 or 256 colours).

Not only were they not impressive, they were generally worse than many of the sets around them - softer, and with less pleasant colours.

When I saw the TH-46PZ85B, the difference was massive. Freeview images were very watchable, and even at just a couple of feet away the image was acceptable, if obviously a little soft given the size of the screen.

I didn't see an upscaled DVD image on this set, but a 1080i source through component was superb. The 'dither' and crawling was evident, but much less so, and only close up.

Like SpiceWeasel, everything I know about the TH-42PZ85B and TH-46PZ85B indicates that they are identical, bar the screen size. I'm quite willing to accept the source and aerial reception in Comet and Currys was poor, but at Comet they did say a guy from Panasonic had come and set up the TVs.

Can anyone shed any light on this? The 46" is a bit big for both my room and budget, but if I went for the 42" right now it would purely be on the hope it was as good as the 46" with the same source quality.

BTW I saw the TH-58PZ700B in Comet (with a 1080p source). There was almost no sign of 'dither' or crawling, and the picture was superb. Shame it's 3 grand!

 

[SpiceWeasel]

The quality in any shop depends how the tv is hooked up, ie 50 tv's all off the same feed. And if they are using the "factory" settings. On my tv the factory settings are miles off what they should be. HUGE difference in quality once properly set up with the thx optimiser. Also the lighting in some stores really doesn't help picture quality.

If you can try and get a demo in a decent store, with both tv's set up and properly calibrated. And if possible in a proper demo room with "normal" home lighting.

There's lots of very good feedback from owners of the PZ85's and the hd ready PX80's. I would bet good money that the 42" was using the "factory" settings.

It always amazes me that any shop trying to sell tv's doesn't take the time to set them up properly. And use enough high quality feeds to not destroy the picture quality.

Surely a properly set up tv that looks fantastic will sell alot easier than one with factory settings and a rubbish quality feed.

EDIT: Whoop, just noticed I have 100 posts

. And not a hob *** in sight.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks SpiceWeasel.

Yea, it is mad that stores often put poor feeds to TVs, and there's no way you can tell the quality without it. Given that the 46" looked great to me (in a store where they appeared to know what they were doing) and the 42" is supposedly the same but smaller, I'm tempted to take a gamble.

I checked the living room last night, and the 46" is just too big. It would fit, but would dominate.

I see that John Lewis has the TV on for 1299 right now, but digitaldirect.co.uk currently have it for 958 + 35 delivery! I wonder if I could talk JL into doing a price match on that...

Have a hobnob!

 

[Anonymous]

Give the JL PM a try but don't feel tied to them. Panasonic are giving their own 5 year warranty on shop bought tvs and as far as I'm aware it costs the dealer nothing so they should still be able to move on the price a little (although they will beg to differ).

I'd probably mention any internet prices I'd seen and the fact that the new FreeSat models are due out soon which will affect the price of the PZ85B (if not make them unsellable). The smaller dealers are more likely to haggle.

 

[Anonymous]

Andy,

Many thanks for the heads-up on the FreeSat models. I was planning on getting a FreeSat HD installation at some point after buying a TV (probably with a PC decoder + PVR software).

However, I wasn't aware there were FreeSat models on the way. Looking at a brochure on the Panasonic website, it appears there's a TH-42PZ81B due in June, which looks to have the same specs as the TH-42PZ85B, but with the inclusion of a FreeSat HD tuner. I think it's well worth waiting a few weeks for that to appear.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't forget the PZ80.

Sound & Vision are doing this for £850.It has everything the PZ85 has got exept for IFC (which is pretty useless) and the sound system is not quire as good.

My local Panasonic Shop is not stocking the PZ85 because they see the PZ80 as being the best value of the two.I had a look at the 42" and 46" PZ80 today and was very impressed indeed.Even my wife thought it looked good and told me to go for the 46" version as 42" didn't look that much biger than my existing 37PX60.

 

[Anonymous]

Spiceweasel, I was very interested in your write up on the PZ85 as I am planning to order one on Saturday from JL as they have confirmed the price match of S&V.

I am very interested if you could confirm how the screen handles Football, is there any beakup in picture, or blur.

Also what is the VIVA BBE sound ?, is this surround staight from the TV ?

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Well im not a footballist, so I havn't watched much football. But saying that I did watch 30 mins of a game on BBC1 and didn't notice any breakup or motion blur. It looked pretty impressive.

I've watched parts of 2 different games on ITV, the 1st game the picture quality was pretty bad. But there was a few posts about this and it's all down to ITV's "quality" transmission. The 2nd game looked alot better, much cleaner picture. But football on BBC1 was definately the best. BBC does transmit at a higher quality than ITV though.

The football looked as good and maybe even better than my old crt 32" on the BBC. It's better than any LCD I've seen by a long way. Especially fast motion stuff.

The VIVA BBE is a virtual surround mode using the inbuilt tv speakers. It does a pretty good job considering it's only using 2 speakers. Deffinately very good by flatscreen standards. I was testing the sound modes on the F1 the other weekend. And it deffinately makes a big difference with it turned on. Sounded as if the cars where driving through the room with it turned on. As you'd expect it's not as good as a proper surround system but I was pretty impressed with it.

Like I say it's a very very good tv.

Just make sure to set it up properly using the THX optimiser, and turn off IFC and picture overscan. On all tv modes and inputs. Also im convinced that the picture quality has improved after a week or so compared to straight out of the box.

I've been using the 1st 100 hours as a running in period, taking it easy with constant channel logo's and programs like the news etc. A good way to do this if you fancy it, is to leave it on say BBC1 for 8-10 hours a day when your not using it. It runs alot cooler after 50 hours or so as well.

Just buy it, you won't be disapointed.

EDIT: God knows whats happend to the formatting, no paragraphs. Worked fine up until today

 

[Anonymous]

SPiceWeasel, Thanks for the write up and info, I have ordered just ordered it along with a Panny DMPB30 Blu-ray player. Now looking forward to it's delivery on Friday. I will "run it in" for the 100 Hours as you say. When you advise turn off the IFC and Picture Overscan on all Modes and inputs, do you have to do this seperately for each one ? Thanks

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Yes , you have to set it up on all the different inputs. Doesn't take to long though. All I did was set up my PS3 in "cinema" using the THX optimiser. Then I just used them as a base setting for the rest. Seemed to work pretty well like that.

Or you could do the THX tweaks on all picture modes as well.