New system-where to splash the cash?

[Al ears]

I didn't say, and nor do I think, that an £800 turntable would need a cartridge upgrade although it could supposedly take one.
The problem with many newbies is they don't know what to expect so the idea of real quality performance will be alien to them, so will the idea of acceptable sound is as well.
What doesn't help these days is most decks coming pre-fitted with a cartridge. Yes they will do the job but some care merely adequate and others quite good.
If, in your example, the three Regas were fitted with the same cartridge would someone new to vinyl hear a discernable difference? I would suggest that if that cartridge was a £25affair probably not.
However, if you significantly upgrade that cartridge, then that along with the difference in tonearms, would probably be discernible soundwise.
The idea you have to spend over a grand is also questionable depending on where your money has actually gone component wise.

 

[Longchops]

I didn't say, and nor do I think, that an £800 turntable would need a cartridge upgrade although it could supposedly take one.
The problem with many newbies is they don't know what to expect so the idea of real quality performance will be alien to them, so will the idea of acceptable sound is as well.
What doesn't help these days is most decks coming pre-fitted with a cartridge. Yes they will do the job but some care merely adequate and others quite good.
If, in your example, the three Regas were fitted with the same cartridge would someone new to vinyl hear a discernable difference? I would suggest that if that cartridge was a £25affair probably not.
However, if you significantly upgrade that cartridge, then that along with the difference in tonearms, would probably be discernible soundwise.
The idea you have to spend over a grand is also questionable depending on where your money has actually gone component wise.

No that was me that said that. Sorry I should have been clearer. The Technics 1210 costs £800 today and I think that definitely needs a cartridge upgrade to make it sound acceptable. For me anyway. This is the only record player I'm really familiar with so that's my only reference point, I'm just trying to give you an idea of where my ears and expectations are at when buying a record player in 2020, that it should sound better than that, and also better than a CD because that's the entire point of analogue, right?

I'm not buying a record player for bragging rights, I want it to actually sound good.....

What hifi rate the Planar 1 very highly, especially the plus, and all the other planars too, but I don't know what this means in real world performance in 2020, and they are not really clear about what you get for the extra money with either deck, it all seems very subjective and used car salesman to me. Perhaps you have listened to one and can elaborate? I'm not interested in cartridges or modifying things to make them sound better. I want it to sound good off the shelf so to speak.....

 

[Al ears]

What Hifi are likely to say any Rega deck is good value for money unfortunately.
However they are limited in upgrade potential and although I had an old Planar 3 I don't think I would buy one again today knowing what I know.
And that's really the crux. Knowing what you know, many new buyers have no idea.
The Technics was a very good deck but it wasn't cheap and it probably didn't come with a pre-fitted cartridge and that was my main issue. Also to me the tonearm wasn't brilliant either but it was obviously built to a budget.
Better than CD is not the entire point of analogue I am afraid, at least not for many, and perhaps not for any of the new buyers of today. If that's a requirement you going to have to spend serious money.
There is a different presentation certainly but many will contend it isn't better than CD.
However, this is diverging somewhat from the OPs question........
Apologies to the OP.

 

[Longchops]

What Hifi are likely to say any Rega deck is good value for money unfortunately.
However they are limited in upgrade potential and although I had an old Planar 3 I don't think I would buy one again today knowing what I know.
And that's really the crux. Knowing what you know, many new buyers have no idea.
The Technics was a very good deck but it wasn't cheap and it probably didn't come with a pre-fitted cartridge and that was my main issue. Also to me the tonearm wasn't brilliant either but it was obviously built to a budget.
Better than CD is not the entire point of analogue I am afraid, at least not for many, and perhaps not for any of the new buyers of today. If that's a requirement you going to have to spend serious money.
There is a different presentation certainly but many will contend it isn't better than CD.
However, this is diverging somewhat from the OPs question........
Apologies to the OP.

Thank you, that actually answers my question. Very helpful. And its really not a divergence from OPs question either, I believe you have answered him perfectly well too, allow me to explain:

He is asking should he spend £4k on a hifi including £179 on a record player, or would it be better to spend £600 instead.

Now iMark suggested that spending >£600 brings a huge increase in quality (I would be v interested to find out more) but no one can justify what OP would get for spending an extra £400 on the Planar 3 as opposed to the 1. Which strongly suggests the answer is 'not very much'

Its exactly the same in the guitar industry too. 'Mid Range' is often a pointless concept. Pure consumerism, with no real quantifiable benefits for your money. You have to go higher until you hit a certain level and the increase in quality starts to become more obvious.

I did wonder sometimes if What Hifi tended to favour some brands....they seem to shill pretty hard for certain ones I've noticed. You seem to be hinting that might also be true....they are the ones that brought me to the Rega decks, and this very thread.....

I must admit that I'm very curious as to why people are buying vinyl in 2020 if its not for sound quality? That would be a question for OP as well as yourself or any other aficionados. . What is the point of the format then? In my day it was to DJ with. people obviously aren't doing that with it these days. What are they doing with them then? A slightly less good format than CD?

The only reason I'm considering a record deck at all is because I discovered a cheap nakamichi tape deck on eBay. Honestly it sounds fantastic. Its not only started my hifi journey but also made me think hmmm.....analogue.....

Cheers

 

[Al ears]

Thank you, that actually answers my question. Very helpful. And its really not a divergence from OPs question either, I believe you have answered him perfectly well too, allow me to explain:

He is asking should he spend £4k on a hifi including £179 on a record player, or would it be better to spend £600 instead.

Now iMark suggested that spending >£600 brings a huge increase in quality (I would be v interested to find out more) but no one can justify what OP would get for spending an extra £400 on the Planar 3 as opposed to the 1. Which strongly suggests the answer is 'not very much'

Its exactly the same in the guitar industry too. 'Mid Range' is often a pointless concept. Pure consumerism, with no real quantifiable benefits for your money. You have to go higher until you hit a certain level and the increase in quality starts to become more obvious.

I did wonder sometimes if What Hifi tended to favour some brands....they seem to shill pretty hard for certain ones I've noticed. You seem to be hinting that might also be true....they are the ones that brought me to the Rega decks, and this very thread.....

I must admit that I'm very curious as to why people are buying vinyl in 2020 if its not for sound quality? That would be a question for OP as well as yourself or any other aficionados. . What is the point of the format then? In my day it was to DJ with. people obviously aren't doing that with it these days. What are they doing with them then? A slightly less good format than CD?

The only reason I'm considering a record deck at all is because I discovered a cheap nakamichi tape deck on eBay. Honestly it sounds fantastic. Its not only started my hifi journey but also made me think hmmm.....analogue.....

Cheers

Any decent analogue is going to be expensive if you don't already own the source material.
Tape decks only make sense if you own tapes, as turntables only make sense if you already own substantial amounts of vinyl.
There is absolutely no reason, in my mind, to buy a £180 turntable then expect excellent sound quality from the one LP you do own.
The cost of a new LP simply dictates you cannot do analogue, or to be more precise, vinyl on a budget, likewise the cost of a newly recorded reel to reel album negates the reason for owning a cheap decent tape deck.

 

[Longchops]

Any decent analogue is going to be expensive if you don't already own the source material.
Tape decks only make sense if you own tapes, as turntables only make sense if you already own substantial amounts of vinyl.
There is absolutely no reason, in my mind, to buy a £180 turntable then expect excellent sound quality from the one LP you do own.
The cost of a new LP simply dictates you cannot do analogue, or to be more precise, vinyl on a budget, likewise the cost of a newly recorded reel to reel album negates the reason for owning a cheap decent tape deck.

Honestly, I had 1 nirvana album and a couple singles when I bought that nakamichi. It sounded so good I spent a couple hundred buying various tapes since but literally 10-15% of them were either mouldy or chewed up so that shopping spree is over now. A lot of them were fake too. i'm not going to be buying many more tbh. Some of them sound absolutely amazing though. I thin it works much better for certain musical styles....

A vinyl record technically sounds worse after every time you play it. Its a diamond dragging across a surface. A brand new, fresh, never played, analogue mastered vinyl should theoretically sound better than any other format. tape, CD, MP3, whatever. But I would be very wary of any vinyl being modern. i would want to check the liner notes and see how it was mastered because if it was digitally mastered it could only possibly sound worse. And i wonder who would buy such a thing and why....

I have a lot of questions i would like to ask someone like yourself but perhaps this thread is not the right venue. OP wants to spend £4k though. I could get about >16 good stereos for that....

how much are new vinyls btw? Have they trebled in price and are like £30 now?