Needs careful partnering

[Bromiley]

I've seen the phrase 'Needs careful partnering' a few times in reviews. Being quite new to this, I'm a little confused.

You look at 'Our Verdict' part first and you see 'Needs careful partnering' in the negative point/s. You are impressed with the positive comments, so you read the review. You get to the end of the review feeling really good. You then go back to the top of the page and you see it again, 'Needs careful partnering'. You think to yourself, 'what on earth does that mean'? The guys doing the review haven't mentioned anything about why 'it' needs careful partnering. You are now left full of doubt and not knowing why. How can you make a decision?

Here's an example. I'm looking for a new amplifier for my B&W 685 S2s. I'd seen the press releases about the new Cambridge Audio CX range earlier in the year and then read the What HiFi review of the CXA60 with great interest. Great review but you have that comment again -- needs careful partnering.

I'm looking at the CXA80 (I need the USB-B DAC connection along with the optical connections) with B&W 685 S2 speakers? Can anyone comment on the amp/speaker combination? Are they a good partner?

I really do hope someone can help.

 

[chebby]

Usually means ... "can sound like scraping your fingernails down a blackboard unless partnered with the warmest sounding valve amp and turntable you can find".

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I've seen the phrase 'Needs careful partnering' a few times in reviews. Being quite new to this, I'm a little confused.

You look at 'Our Verdict' part first and you see 'Needs careful partnering' in the negative point/s. You are impressed with the positive comments, so you read the review. You get to the end of the review feeling really good. You then go back to the top of the page and you see it again, 'Needs careful partnering'. You think to yourself, 'what on earth does that mean'? The guys doing the review haven't mentioned anything about why 'it' needs careful partnering. You are now left full of doubt and not knowing why. How can you make a decision?

Here's an example. I'm looking for a new amplifier for my B&W 685 S2s. I'd seen the press releases about the new Cambridge Audio CX range earlier in the year and then read the What HiFi review of the CXA60 with great interest. Great review but you have that comment again -- needs careful partnering.

I'm looking at the CXA80 (I need the USB-B DAC connection along with the optical connections) with B&W 685 S2 speakers? Can anyone comment on the amp/speaker combination? Are they a good partner?

I really do hope someone can help.

hi it means some speakers will not sound that good with some amps so have to be careful in matching speakers but if you get the match wrong the sound will come out dull or to bright for that amp thats way its a must to have a demo in a hi fi shop to find out what works for your ears and money . i hope this helps

 

[Bromiley]

Thanks, that does help a little. I don't have the luxury of the Hi-Fi stores you have in the UK for demos, so I'm trying to find out what people think of the Cambridge CXA80 and B&W 685S2 combination.

I've read the CXA60/80 is a little "forward" sounding. I've heard the Rotel RA12 with the speakers and liked the sound. Would you say the Rotel / B&W combination is "forward/bright"?

On paper the CXA80 has everything I need: the USB DAC and optical inputs are a must for me, which is why I'm not looking at the Rotel or Arcam amps for the budget I have.

Any thoughts?

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I've seen the phrase 'Needs careful partnering' a few times in reviews

WHF speak for "it's rubbish".

 

[GCE]

Another example:http://www.whathifi.com/yamaha/s500/reviewin a Yamaha A-S500 review : Doesn't like harsh partnering kit

 

[davedotco]

I think it is just reviewers code for 'does not work well with our favourite kit'.

Which in turn is code for 'makes our reference system sound different, so we don't much like it'.

 

[philpot1001]

I've seen the phrase 'Needs careful partnering' a few times in reviews. Being quite new to this, I'm a little confused.

You look at 'Our Verdict' part first and you see 'Needs careful partnering' in the negative point/s. You are impressed with the positive comments, so you read the review. You get to the end of the review feeling really good. You then go back to the top of the page and you see it again, 'Needs careful partnering'. You think to yourself, 'what on earth does that mean'? The guys doing the review haven't mentioned anything about why 'it' needs careful partnering. You are now left full of doubt and not knowing why. How can you make a decision?

Here's an example. I'm looking for a new amplifier for my B&W 685 S2s. I'd seen the press releases about the new Cambridge Audio CX range earlier in the year and then read the What HiFi review of the CXA60 with great interest. Great review but you have that comment again -- needs careful partnering.

I'm looking at the CXA80 (I need the USB-B DAC connection along with the optical connections) with B&W 685 S2 speakers? Can anyone comment on the amp/speaker combination? Are they a good partner?

I really do hope someone can help.

I havent heard that combo, however i did see a reviewer on Richer Sounds post he thought the CXA-80 was bright - and ive heard that B&W speakers can also be a bit bright, so be careful pairing them......give them a good audition if you can.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Need careful partnering can be matching bright or duller sounding speakers etc etc but it can also mean the equipment is not natural sounding and has a colour that can sound bad with the wrong equipment.

But what the reviers fail to say is how subtle these things are and cause worry and confusion to the reader that may dismiss good products just from reading the review.

Its best to remember that the reviewer has a hearing and taste that is different from your own so go demo. You may be supprised

 

[NS496]

These subjective terms are ambigious. Personally I don't find the 685 S2's bright at all. Full sounding midrange, almost a bit 'dark' with a layer of high frequency detail, but not bright - be that due to partnering kit, my room characteristics or my ears...

i guess the term means 'try before you buy, in own context'.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

I have some hifi journalists as friends and work myself occasionnaly as hifi reviewer. It's one of those terms that is sometimes overused and that some people use without knowing really why they are putting it in like "it's vintage sounding" or "it's very musical". Because, of course, you need to partner your speakers with an amp that can support them and so, a listening of an entire set (speaker + amp) is always needed when you go for a complete system.

When used with the will to do, it has different meanings too.

1) This is a powerhungry or impedance critical speaker, and need a capable integrated amp to push it. Needs carfeul partnering (in the case of a B&W speaker, it should be exactly that)

2) This is a non neutral speaker (in the extreme case, "this is a speaker with critical downpoints / or a speaker only suited for some kind of uses") and it will need a non neutral amplifier to sound satisfying/specific. Needs careful partnering.

3) This is a very neutral and flat sounding speaker that will need an exhuberant amp to sound interesting. Needs careful parnering.

As you can see, it will depend a LOT of the perception of the reviewer and his taste. So it's alsways important to know in the test "what the reviewer likes", so you can interprete this kind of clues in an accurate way.

Sorry for my english.

 

[Andy Clough]

I've seen the phrase 'Needs careful partnering' a few times in reviews

WHF speak for "it's rubbish".

Not true. We have always made it clear that mixing and matching different components to build a hi-fi system is not just a case of putting three five-star products together and all will be well.

Some speakers/amps have a warmer, mellower sound, while others may err on the brighter or more aggressive side. So if you put together an amp and pair of speakers which both err on the bright side, the overall result may be too much aggression in the treble.

However, pick one component with a slightly warmer sound and the two will balance each other out, so the overall result could be spot-on. That's why we always recommend you 'try before you buy'. Listening to different combinations is important.

 

[Bromiley]

Thanks, Andy and others for the replies.

This helps. I now have more of an understanding of what 'needs careful partnering' means.

Being new to Hi-Fi and not having the experience of what warm, neutral and bright kit sounds like, it's quite difficult to make choices. I say difficult because where I live (Cologne, Germany) there aren't the number of shops that stock the variety of amps and speakers as in the UK. This means one shop for one amp and then another for a different amp. Not ideal to say the least and certainly not like walking into a Richer Sounds shop for a demo with many choices.

I completely understand that demos are crucial and I'm desperately trying to locate shops that stock the B&W 685 S2 speakers and the Cambridge CXA80 amp for a demo.

In the meantime could you, Andy, offer any opinions about the B&W 685S2 and CXA80 combination? I understand that it would be your personal thoughts, but as you work with people familiar with many speakers and amps, it would still be of value.

As I said in a previous post, the CXA80 offers a USB DAC connection. This is primarily why I'm interested in the amp as my source of music is my MacBook.

If anyone else can offer alternative amp / DAC suggestions for 700 GBP, that would be good too.

 

[NS496]

Rotel RA-12?

 

[DIB]

How about a NADC356BEE DAC 2.0?

Just about in budget in UK

.

 

[Bromiley]

Yes, I have actually listened to the RA-12 and my B&W 685s2. They sounded very nice together but with this combination I don't get the USB-B DAC input for my MacBook. I'd really like to bypass the internal sound card of my Mac.

The RA-12 is, however, 350 Euros less than the CXA80. I could use the difference to buy an exteral USB-B DAC for my MacBook.

 

[DCC]

test

 

[gasolin]

Thanks, Andy and others for the replies.

This helps. I now have more of an understanding of what 'needs careful partnering' means.

Being new to Hi-Fi and not having the experience of what warm, neutral and bright kit sounds like, it's quite difficult to make choices. I say difficult because where I live (Cologne, Germany) there aren't the number of shops that stock the variety of amps and speakers as in the UK. This means one shop for one amp and then another for a different amp. Not ideal to say the least and certainly not like walking into a Richer Sounds shop for a demo with many choices.

I completely understand that demos are crucial and I'm desperately trying to locate shops that stock the B&W 685 S2 speakers and the Cambridge CXA80 amp for a demo.

In the meantime could you, Andy, offer any opinions about the B&W 685S2 and CXA80 combination? I understand that it would be your personal thoughts, but as you work with people familiar with many speakers and amps, it would still be of value.

As I said in a previous post, the CXA80 offers a USB DAC connection. This is primarily why I'm interested in the amp as my source of music is my MacBook.

If anyone else can offer alternative amp / DAC suggestions for 700 GBP, that would be good too.

Marantz PM7005?

 

[Bromiley]

I auditioned the CXA80 at home last weekend. I used my Macbook Pro via USB as the source as well as my bluray player via optical. I have to say I was very impressed. I'm new to hifi but to my ears the clarity and detail were excellent. The stereo seperation was also amazing. BUT, as a few people pointed out, it did sound a little bright with my B&W 685s2 speakers.

Now that I have listened to the CXA80, I'm turning my attention to a few other choices.

1. Rega Brio-R with Arcam irDAC (1.276 Euros)

2. Rotel RA-12 with Arcam irDAC (1.176 Euros)

I know the Rotel has digital inputs but both optical inputs would be in use by other equipment leaving no connection free for my Mac via USB. This is why I mention the Arcam it DAC. Most of my music is on the Mac.

Any thoughts on the two options above with my B&Ws2 speakers?

Also, would the Arcam DAC be better than the DAC in the Rotel?

 

[sansui au719]

Slightly to one side of the topic but I'd love to read a review of the CXA80 given it's been out for a while now and Cambridge seem to be pushing the CXC/CXA combination as a 'future direction'. The CXA80 is obviously a step up in both power and architecture from its little brother CXA60, being, as I understand, essentially a dual mono-block design. I'd like to know how it compares with some leading alternatives in a similar price bracket (of course with a DAC added), or whether it's simply sounds like a CXA60 with more grunt. The review of the CXA60 gave the CXA80 a brief mention, suggestive of a glance at the Cambridge marketing brochure.