Naim XS vs Roksan Caspian

[admin_exported]

Hi,i'm interesting to buy one integrated amplifier and maybe I'm between them.

Both of them has received 5 stars from what hi-fi.

Is there anybody from the reviewers to tell me what are the differences between them?

I think Naim XS is more clear and analytical and Caspian more sweet?

I am not sure- I don't know.

 

[Anonymous]

Audition both.

 

[Anonymous]

I own Nait XS and all I can say IMHO is GREAT GREAT GREAT!!

It sounds soo great! You know when doctors say that music helps your health. I think that it won't help you without a good kit!

You should try both and then decide. I haven't heard Roksan but form the people from Naim forum XS is one of the best amps Naim produced. At some point even better than Supernait, some say. It has the same preamp section like SNait.

You can also add an external power supply (flat cap 2x or 2xs (which will soon be launched), or even Hicap 2). They all improve your music in all levels and the first two can be also used for your Naim CD player - 5x or 5xs (expected soon either)

What kind of speakers do you have?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

The Nait XS is a superb amplifier (btw, we have just taken on Naim

), works well with many components and with one of the optional power supplies added it's performance (as BBg states) is improved o many levels.

Thanks

RIck @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

I have auditioned both:

While the Naim is great for rhythmic music it IMHO suffers from a loudness effect if you remember the loudness button on old NAD amps.

Naim will make all your rock cd's sound great and the rest sound like rubbish

Roksan will make all your cd's sound great without emphasizing anything other than perhaps producing a somewhat sweet midrange.

I'm of course biased as I own the Roksan. But as previously mentioned you really should audition both..

 

[chebby]

nightrhyme:
I have auditioned both:

While the Naim is great for rhythmic music it IMHO suffers from a loudness effect if you remember the loudness button on old NAD amps.

Naim will make all your rock cd's sound great and the rest sound like rubbish

I cannot imagine a description that could be any further from my experience of the Nait XS (or my own Naim).

I play everything from Two-Tone and reggae and 1950s - 1980s pop and jazz (mostly be-bop) to Bach motets and the Tallis Scholars. I also play an awful lot of spoken word/drama. At no point has any of this ever sounded like 'rubbish' on my Naim.

 

[Anonymous]

I disagree with you, nightryme. I had some old amp which had that loudness button and when I compared both amps I came to conclusion that Naim is actually very neutral!

Look at some people's opinion about it on naim forum (higher possibility of being biased though)

But I agree totaly with them!!

http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/48019385/m/5352987127

Listen first! That is the only right thing to say!

 

[Anonymous]

Don't forget to audition a Primare i30 along with these two illustrious contenders.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Looks like we all disagree with nightrhyme.....

The Caspian is a good, solid amplifier, but there's nothing special about it to 'make all your CD's sound great' as stated elsewhere on here. There's not too many amplifiers that are fantastic all rounders when you get to this price point, as their accuracy may not suit all types of music.

People are probably now getting used the Naim's strengths on these forums - tight, controlled, rhythmic etc, which very few amplifiers can match. I'm suspecting nightrhymes issues may have been down to the speakers used.

A demo is definitely recommended of both amplifiers to hear for yourself, as well as a couple of others if that possibility exists. It's also worth trying the Naim 122x/150x pre/power along side it - a bit more edge and better drive too. You also have the usual upgrade path of adding a power amp to bi-amp, but the added extra of adding a power supply too, for either of these combinations.

 

[Anonymous]

Lol I'm from Denmark and quite a few people here agrees with me. To call a Naim amp "neutral" couldn't be further from the truth IMHO. I think even Naim engineers would disagree

But then again who wants a neutral amp ? The HiFi hobby for me is defined by matching different equitment to represent music the way you want it to sound.

The amps were both auditioned on Audiovector S3 Avandtgarde (see pic below). Remember I'm not saying Naim is a bad amp just No competition for Roksan Caspian. I also took it to a friends house and auditioned it on System Audio sa2k the "loudness effect nearly pulled his basdrives all the way" very strange as my firends own amp is quite a powerfull one: http://www.bladelius.com/thor.html.

If Primare I30, which I also auditioned, also is an option that would without a doubt be my choice. It kills both the Naim and Roksan but it is a little less musical and more analytical and clean sounding...

 

[chebby]

Does the giant oversized picture reinforce your argument about the Caspian?

 

[John Duncan]

Better? (I took the liberty etc etc)

 

[chebby]

Thanks. It looked like it had the 'loudness' button switched on

 

[John Duncan]

Like a Dali (or a Kudos even) but much prettier (joeljoeljoel)

 

[Anonymous]

nightrhyme:
Lol I'm from Denmark and quite a few people here agrees with me. To call a Naim amp "neutral" couldn't be further from the truth IMHO. I think even Naim engineers would disagree

But then again who wants a neutral amp ? The HiFi hobby for me is defined by matching different equitment to represent music the way you want it to sound.

The amps were both auditioned on Audiovector S3 Avandtgarde (see pic below). Remember I'm not saying Naim is a bad amp just No competition for Roksan Caspian. I also took it to a friends house and auditioned it on System Audio sa2k the "loudness effect nearly pulled his basdrives all the way" very strange as my firends own amp is quite a powerfull one: http://www.bladelius.com/thor.html.

If Primare I30, which I also auditioned, also is an option that would without a doubt be my choice. It kills both the Naim and Roksan but it is a little less musical and more analytical and clean sounding...

Did you try Densen and Electrocompaniet also? Be interested to hear your comments.

 

[Anonymous]

Tarquinh:Audition both.

I couldn't agree more. Everybody's tastes are different and it should be an enjoyable experience auditioning both to hear for yourself how they sound, also it's a big wad of money so you should make sure pick the one that suits you best. I have one of the above mentioned amps and it is the dogs cheenies

 

[Frank Harvey]

nightrhyme: Lol I'm from Denmark and quite a few people here agrees with me. To call a Naim amp "neutral" couldn't be further from the truth IMHO. I think even Naim engineers would disagreeHas anyone described it as neutral? I know I haven't.

The amps were both auditioned on Audiovector S3 Avandtgarde (see pic below). Remember I'm not saying Naim is a bad amp just No competition for Roksan Caspian. I also took it to a friends house and auditioned it on System Audio sa2k the "loudness effect nearly pulled his basdrives all the way" very strange as my firends own amp is quite a powerfull one: http://www.bladelius.com/thor.html. No competition? Bold claim. What you have to remember is that the synergy between a particular amp and speakers can be quite strong, so much so it could make an amp sound better than another one if the other one isn't mating happily with the speakers in question. This is why when choosing speakers, they should be auditioned with the amp they'll be used with, and vice versa. Older Audiovectors I've heard have been very good and matched with Naim very well (they used to be distributed through The Chord Company in the 90's), but I've not heard any newer models, so can't comment on their current compatibility.

If Primare I30, which I also auditioned, also is an option that would without a doubt be my choice. It kills both the Naim and Roksan but it is a little less musical and more analytical and clean sounding...Kills? Another bold claim. I've said that the Caspian is a good, solid amplifier, nothing wrong with it at all. I would never say that the Naim would 'kill' anything at a similar price point, as that is a very harsh word to use. Maybe if you had the best and worst at a specific price point, you MAY be able to use that word, but in this instance, none of these amplifiers would 'kill' the others. This is one problem with a forum in that some people just go OTT or use words that are just way too strong.

Anybody looking at amplification at this price point (or indeed any product or price point) should always audition an alternative to qualify the purchase. All I'm purveying is the choices and preferences for customers who come to us auditioning amps at the price point mentioned.

 

[Anonymous]

nightrhyme: I'm of course biased as I own the Roksan. But as previously mentioned you really should audition both.. ï

chebby:

Does the giant oversized picture reinforce your argument about the Caspian?

sorry about the picture size..I usually frequent forums who expect high res pic..

Tarquinh: Did you try Densen and Electrocompaniet also? Be interested to hear your comments.

Didn't try Densen the dealer said it would be a waist of time. Did however try Electrocompaniet ECI 3 which for lack of better words seemed somewhat dull in comparison with Primare I30. Moving to ECI 4 made a world of difference but then your suddenly at a different price point.

When I describe Naim and this loudness effect I mean a slightly emphasized midrange which Electrocompaniet and Naim seems to share. However Electrocompaniets approach seemed more subtle. In my subjective opinion Electrocompaniet are very nice amps but you have to spend a little more to go above Primare I30 and Roksan.

I'm not afraid of making bold statements

Here's another:

Naim xs < Electrocomapniet ECI 3 < Roksan Caspian < Primare I30 < Electrocomapniet ECI 4

 

[chebby]

nightrhyme:I'm not afraid of making bold statements

Here's another:

Naim xs < < Electrocomapniet ECI 3 < Roksan Caspian < Primare I30 < Electrocomapniet ECI 4

Welcome to "Amplifier Top Trumps".

 

[chebby]

There is simply no way a Nait XS (or my 5i-2 come to that) can be described as having a 'loudness' effect.

nightrhyme:When I describe Naim and this loudness effect I mean a slightly emphasized midrange

You obviously don't even understand the function of a 'loudness' button. They were designed to use ONLY when playing music very quietly in order to emphasise bass and treble a little at extremely low volumes. Here is an example 'loudness' curve....

You can see that the lowest bass is boosted up to 4db and the highest (audible) frequencies boosted between 7db to 10db (depending of course on how sensitive to high frequencies your ears are. I am assuming 15khz - 20khz for younger ears.)

Of course the headbangers used to turn up bass to the max and volume to ear-splitting levels and switch on the 'loudness'. But they were idiots and half of them are probably wearing hearing aids now*.

*Ones that go up to 11 of course!

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:

There is simply no way a Nait XS (or my 5i-2 come to that) can be described as having a 'loudness' effect.

nightrhyme:When I describe Naim and this loudness effect I mean a slightly emphasized midrange

You obviously don't even understand the function of a 'loudness' button. They were designed to use ONLY when playing music very quietly in order to emphasise bass and treble a little at extremely low volumes. Here is an example 'loudness' curve....

You can see that the lowest bass is boosted up to 4db and the highest (audible) frequencies boosted between 7db to 10db (depending of course on how sensitive to high frequencies your ears are. I am assuming 15khz - 20khz for younger ears.)

Of course the headbangers used to turn up bass to the max and volume to ear-splitting levels and switch on the 'loudness'. But they were idiots and half of them are probably wearing hearing aids now*.

*Ones that go up to 11 of course!

Of course I know the technical aspects of the loudness button. But that is not the issue ? It's just the easiest way for me to decribe my subjective listening experince with Naim. No need to go technical on me just because my experince differs from yours. People almost seems offended that I dont praise the naim amp..Don't get me wrong Itïs a really really good map. Maybe just not for me. I could name other issues with naim amps but I'll probably be burned at the stake..

So I'll just return this thread to topic and repeat:

cookies: you should audition both amps. Just remember, when auditioning Roksan Caspian, that the volume control is designed to go all the way. That means from someting like 7 to 5 o'clock without distorting.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thank you Chebby

 

[Anonymous]

What about Creek Destiny and Densen B110 ?

The Destiny has very different architecture inside in comparison Caspian, XS, B110.

 

[Anonymous]

By rebutation they should be very nice amps.

Take as many potential suspects with you home and listen

 

[Anonymous]

nightryme, I've compared the Densen, the Naim and the Electrocompaniet (ECI 3, I think). The Densen to me sounded forward, plenty of slam, pacy all the things the Roksan is said to be, but the midrange seemed a trifle recessed compared with the others. The Naim had a touch of the PRAT, but was more subtle than the Densen and had that rare ability to make the music hang in the air. The Electrocompaniet was simply neutral, although I suspected the bass might have been a touch forward on some recordings. All in all I'd have taken the Naim, partly because my first choice, the ECI, was far too expensive. Then I heard the Unison Research Unico....

All of which indicates that one person's dull is another person's accurate, so audition, as you said.