My Yamaha RX-A2020 review

[GSB]

I wish i could offer qualified advice.My only knoledge of this comes from google and these forums,those in the know seem like they don't want to let us in on the secret :shifty:

With auto calibration doen't it take into account room accoustics(of sorts)but more importantly speaker distances...setting that all important delay?

When playing with my oppo speaker config i set the levels for the surrounds higher than the ypao...and they were far too noticable...so i copied the ypao settings and it all sounded alot more balanced...the problem i had was with my sub...no volume control on this(so can't relate to yours,sorry)i had to increase the leval from -3.5db to +6 just to get a half decent response!The whole thing did my head in as i don't understand what i'm doing,or how to do it :roll: ....i did get an spl leval of 85db of the front speakers with +2db,but this shook the bloody house :O :?

I remember talking to a tech guy from kef a few years back,he advised not to increase speaker levels too much,but rather decrease as it is less harmfull to the tweeters.With this in mind ypao is my friend

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Different amp I know but reviews say ypao is accurate. Ive not really found it so. Adjusting distances and especially centre/sub lwvels. I also found conswcutive ypao's.gave vastly diff settings. I would be interested to know everyones opinion. That said, as u said OB, its half the fun this tweaking business

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I'm getting more excited by the minute, but I've had to postpone the setting up process because of heavy traffic delays returning home, and the need for a dedicated av rack for this monster of an amp.

Hopefully I can find time for rack buying tomorrow, then set up the amp either tomorrow night, or Sunday.

Life has a habit of getting in the way BBB...hopefully you get the chance to source a rack and get it up and running over the bank holiday ray:

Nothing bought yet, and we've (my wife) has decided that we (she) don't want an av rack, so we're having a sideboard instead.

And of course, agreeing on that isn't easy, as she wants to spend a lot more of my money on it than I do, but hopefully we'll make progress tomorrow.

 

[GSB]

But you have just bought a new avr BBB.....play nicely now

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

But you have just bought a new avr BBB.....play nicely now

I always do.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Different amp I know but reviews say ypao is accurate. Ive not really found it so. Adjusting distances and especially centre/sub lwvels. I also found conswcutive ypao's.gave vastly diff settings. I would be interested to know everyones opinion. That said, as u said OB, its half the fun this tweaking business

Hello Oldboy and everyone,

This is what I've found works for me, in all my three rooms. I place the microphone at the listening position and do the automatic receiver setup procedure (YPAO in the kitchen and bedroom, and Denon in the parlour). I then use the receivers to send a Test Tone (I think all modern receivers will have them) to all the speakers in turn to check that they all seem of equal loudness from the listening position. If they are not of equal loudness, then I manually adjust the speaker levels as required. Then I play a bit of Blu-Ray to hear if it sounds okay. What I've found is that all the speakers, apart from the centre and the subwoofer, are pretty accurately set by the receiver's automatic calibration, maybe needing to be adjusted by + or - 1.5 dB at most. The centre and the subwoofer, however, were MARKEDLY wrongly set by the automatic procedure. In all my rooms, remembering that the receivers are Denon and Yamaha, ie not all from the same manufacturer, I find that the subwoofer was set 5 or 6dB too strongly, and conversely, the centre speaker was set about 3 or 4dB too quietly! So using the manual speaker level adjustment in the receivers' setup procedure, I've had to cut the subwoofer level by 5 or 6dB, and I've had to boost the centre channel by 3 or 4dB. No great consequence, I just accept that the automatic receiver calibration isn't perfect, and the manual adjustments to the speaker levels as required give a satisfactory result. It does take a little time initially, but it's not something that one does every day!

 

[Oldboy]

Hello everyone here's a updated photo with the front height speakers in place at last, excuse the unfinished trunking but I fully intend to give them a lick of paint soon so they match the wall colour and blend into the decoration making it far less noticeable.

 

[mr malarky]

Hello everyone here's a updated photo with the front height speakers in place at last, excuse the unfinished trunking but I fully intend to give them a lick of paint soon so they match the wall colour and blend into the decoration making it far less noticeable.

Very nice set-up oldboy!

How are you finding the front heights now you have them in place?

 

[Oldboy]

Now I've uploaded a (little bit wonky, doh!) photo to show you all I thought it was worth me sharing my experience of having front height speakers in my system.

So the good news is that when using any sound mode from the DSPs on the 2020 the front height speakers are used no matter if the disc is 5.1 or 7.1 in nature, infact the front presence speakers are only turned off when you use the straight mode or stereo so you do have the option of listening to a DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby True HD with no processing added. I must add I've not tried a bog standard Dolby Digital or DTS codec yet so can't comment on how dvds fare, infact my Goodfellas blu-ray (criminally imo) carries a standard Dolby Digital soundtrack so may try that tonight and report back.

In use the front presence speakers certainly add to the atmospherics of any movie and the front soundstage is opened up to the width of the room and beyond with sounds coming from within the room now rather than being able to be placed as coming from individual speakers and the height offered by these speakers means the sound seems to fill the whole front wall. I would say it's much more in keeping with a true cinema experience as sounds are placed more accurately within the soundtrack but it must be said that at times the effect is very subtle, for example on the recent Star Trek BD the scenes on the bridge of the Enterprise are full of various beeps and electronic sounds which simply fire over your head and sweep round the room. It's very subtle here but it's simply not obvious that the fronts are producing these atmospherics anymore which is a revelation.

When the action kicks off though the presence speakers get more of a work out and are employed more readily to convey a sense of space and action, a good example from the same movie is when the Enterprise comes out of warp only to find a shipyard of destroyed federation starships infront of them where nero has blown them all away. This sounds very different from all my previous run throughs of this disc, there is a real sense of objects passing over head as the ships takes action to avoid all the stricken wreckage and the scenes are more involving as a result, infact involving is the best word to describe the effect of these speakers in general...I put the Star Trek BD on as a quick test but 2 hours later I had watched the whole movie again. I think that's really all I need to say but as that is a 5.1 True HD disc I thought I would compare it to a full 7.1 DTS HD Master Audio disc and so my U.S imported digibook edition of Seven was the disc of choice due to the superb atmoshperic soundtrack of this still brilliant movie.

The results.....it's clear a 7.1 track is even more convincing than the already impressive results from the Star Trek 5.1 track and it seems the 2020 really utilises that extra audio info on the disc to convey a heightened sense of realism. There are numerous examples on this disc of general background detail of a living breathing city which I have always found impressive but with the presence speakers it really feels as though you are planted right in the middle of (I think) New York. Traffic noise and the hussle and bustle of the city are conveyed in such a life like way I was taken back and when it starts raining as it inevitably does alot in this movie it really sounds like it's falling from the top to the bottom of the room all around you, it's very impressive and had me grinning like a cat. I'm back to that word again, involving, these speakers along with this movie and the new amp just plonk you right in the middle of the action in an effortless way and keep you there and yet again I watched the movie all the way through to the end.

Now to the negatives. This sort of installation isn't for everyone as my front wall does now resemble any AV store you care to mention and you will need an understanding other half (or none at all) to get away with it or may be smaller speakers to act as your front presence because there will be little room left for artwork or pictures once you get these on the wall. There will be wires to hide so that means trunking or burying them in the wall and both are messy options that add to the overall cost of the installation, it's simple stuff but not to be forgotten if you are thinking about adding these speakers. If aesthetics are your thing then some serious consideration should be taken before you go for any kind of presence speaker and perhaps hidden celing speakers would be a good alternative or just not bother. Lastly the ideal positioning is above your front left and right channel which could be a problem for those with less than ideal room shapes and may not give you big enough gains in performance to warrant installing them.

But in terms of what these speakers have added to my system in my room I have to say the expense and hassle of installing them was well worth it and I'm extremely happy with the difference they have made to my enjoyment of movies and games, if you are in any way considering front height/presence and have the room to accomodate them along with a sympathetic and understanding other half then go for it as it's well worth having them. :rockout:

 

[RobinKidderminster]

The next question, which I guess you qould be hard pressed to answer, is how effective would 2 much smaller descrete speakers be up in the corners? Food for thought tho OB. Great to learn of your succesful experiments/experience. Cheers

 

[Oldboy]

The next question, which I guess you qould be hard pressed to answer, is how effective would 2 much smaller descrete speakers be up in the corners? Food for thought tho OB. Great to learn of your succesful experiments/experience. Cheers

Well what I can say is that unlike the rest of the speakers the front presence ones can't be set to large or small with a crossover so I would say you could easily get away 2 much smaller speakers in the corners BUT this isn't the ideal layout, Dolby say the ideal placement is above your fronts for full effect. The only contradictory information I have seen to this is in the manual for my 2020 that places them further out from the fronts but this is the only place where I have seen this layout and all other info points towards 3 feet or more directly above your fronts.

As I said in my earlier post you could get away with celing speakers as well if you don't want them visible so smaller speakers should be fine, it's not as if they are doing huge amounts of work like other speakers but they definately fire out more than I thought they would so careful system matching would still be a good idea I think.

 

[vonchief]

From what I can tell the Dolby layout is for front height speakers.

The Yamaha speaker layout is for front presence speakers which may explain the slightly different positioning.

Looks like a mixture of front wide and front high.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I would be interested to know when the front height/prescence pair come into play. DD, Dolby HD, DTS Master and/or only processed settings? I am tempted to set up a small pair.

 

[GSB]

Front pressence only work when the soundtrack is matrixed from what i'm aware,an HD Master track in 7.1 is mixed for surround backs,as opposed to the front presence,well worth a try tho...if i could accomadate i would

Oldboy whats your impression of your new avr with an HD Master Audio 5.1 sountrack?(straight)

Bet it's awsome

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I would be interested to know when the front height/prescence pair come into play. DD, Dolby HD, DTS Master and/or only processed settings? I am tempted to set up a small pair.

Yea GSB. Silly question from me. Logically no soundteack has native height front so it must be processed. Having said that most DD 5.1 sounds very similar straight & dsp'd esp from Sky. Would be a mistake (I guess) in HD modes & rarely have other DD sources. Worth a cheap punt tho maybe?

Would depend on amps dsp ability too & expect few have tried my V2065 or similar.

 

[GSB]

I think that its something that should be considered,infact i would go further and add L/R wides aswell....9.1 the front soundstage would be massive....

.....but i can't :roll:

If a local'ish dealer has a set-up in place it would be worth visit

 

[mr malarky]

I think that its something that should be considered,infact i would go further and add L/R wides aswell....9.1 the front soundstage would be massive....

.....but i can't :roll:

If a local'ish dealer has a set-up in place it would be worth visit

Dont torture yourself GSB, I don't think you can run width and height and the same time, they're two different systems (height is a Dolby system, width is an Auddesy system).

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I think that its something that should be considered,infact i would go further and add L/R wides aswell....9.1 the front soundstage would be massive....

.....but i can't :roll:

If a local'ish dealer has a set-up in place it would be worth visit

Dont torture yourself GSB, I don't think you can run width and height and the same time, they're two different systems (height is a Dolby system, width is an Auddesy system).

You can certainly run front heights and front wides at the same time on several receivers. I think (but I'm not sure, mind) that some Onkyo receivers do that. Certainly the new Denon AVR-4520 (and my own Denon AVR-4810 in the parlour), being nine-channel amplifiers, can run front height, front width and surround back speakers all at the same time in an 11-speaker array, but you do need to add a separate stereo amplifier for the front width channels. This full 11-speaker rig is an Audyssey system, but I can also have only front heights using either Dolby 2z or Audyssey.

Yamaha receivers however, don't run the Dolby 2z front height or Audyssey systems and don't do front wide speakers, although listening to my kitchen system, the centrepiece being the Yamaha RX-A2010, the soundstage seems to extend a fair wider than the front speakers anyway.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Lol...I swear ...some of you guys, the way you carry on you'd think I'd stolen money fron you or something

No, Oldboy you've sorted out the levels already by the looks of things - sorry if my post was confusing it was rushed. The default is set to 0db on my amp set the amp to +16db is all I meant to say.

ref my speaker package sadly room size & family dictates I have to make do with a sat/sub config - saying that the amp controls it better especially the active sub

( strange because I found when paired with my passive stereo speakers in bi-amp mode running 2channel stereo the bass sounded 'soft') - I was never into HT that much I'll admit and bought the amp over a dedicated stereo amp for stereo playback, as in my experience my Yamaha dsp AX-620 sounds better than any stereo amp I have owned, it sounds better than the 1020 in stereo too.

The 1020 dumps on it from a great height in 5.1 config though and the passthrough as improved motion noticebly as your review highlighted seriously looking at getting a new TV now though......

Hi Thompsonuxb

Thanks for your reply.

I still don't undertsand as to how inceasing the default setting the of the amp to +16dB increases power output, improves stereo playback, does't require the volume to be increased above -45dB and reduces background noise :?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Oldboy]

I would be interested to know when the front height/prescence pair come into play. DD, Dolby HD, DTS Master and/or only processed settings? I am tempted to set up a small pair.

Yea GSB. Silly question from me. Logically no soundteack has native height front so it must be processed. Having said that most DD 5.1 sounds very similar straight & dsp'd esp from Sky. Would be a mistake (I guess) in HD modes & rarely have other DD sources. Worth a cheap punt tho maybe?

Would depend on amps dsp ability too & expect few have tried my V2065 or similar.

If you use any of the 2020's DSP modes such as Sci-Fi then the front height speakers are used no matter what the codec is coming from your source, even tv when using Dolby Pro Logic 2 uses the front height speakers. A standard DD or DTS soundtrack also uses them when using a DSP mode and as stated before you can bypass the heights and hear a standard 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack by using the straight mode on the amp.

When listening to a True HD or DTS HD Master Audio soundtrack (in 5.1 or 7.1) I can hear no dip in sound quality by using any of the DSP modes to utilise the front height speakers, infact I much prefer using them as it adds so much to the soundstage, I'm certain it's the quality of the 2020 that makes it so great to listen to and when flicking through to straight I really miss that extra scale and size of the soundstage.....I wouldn't go back to just a front 3 again that's for sure.

Even a standard DD or DTS soundtrack from DVD benefits from the front height set up although it's not as pronounced as it is with a HD audio soundtrack, I'm sure this is down to the drop in audio quality from the disc with a standard DD or DTS soundtrack obviously carrying less information. The 2020 still produces a lovely wide, full soundstage even with these lower resolution soundtracks but it's not quite as convincing as a HD soundtrack which is to be expected I would have thought.

As it's the amp doing all the work to produce the height channels I can't help but be impressed by just how convincing it sounds and how well integrated everything is, you lose no quality to the sound but gain a massive soundstage. I'm just glad I gave it a go as I'm reaping the full benefits now but what I would say is the quality of your receiver would be crucial as to how convincing the effect would be for anyone considering front heights or presence speakers...I'm not convinced a £500 receiver would produce such great results as the 2020 does :?

 

[Oldboy]

Front pressence only work when the soundtrack is matrixed from what i'm aware,an HD Master track in 7.1 is mixed for surround backs,as opposed to the front presence,well worth a try tho...if i could accomadate i would

Oldboy whats your impression of your new avr with an HD Master Audio 5.1 sountrack?(straight)

Bet it's awsome

What do you think GSB? Seriously it's the best purchase I have made since I started buying home cinema kit and the 2020 has given me such huge advances in sound quality that I've been delving into my disc collection all over again.

Any DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby True HD 5.1 in straight mode sounds epic but what's most surprising is how much difference the receiver has made to movies that aren't of the blockbuster kind that have more delicate and atmospheric soundtracks such as Michael Clayton, Harry Brown and Drive...the atmospherics are superb and draw you right in now. Of course blockbuster movies sound incredible and instantly grab your attention but my neighbours aren't too pleased as it rattles the door frames!

 

[GSB]

:rofl:

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Did I say I wanted one?
The bargain suppliwr has never emailed back with a price tho

 

[Oldboy]

Did I say I wanted one? The bargain suppliwr has never emailed back with a price tho

Give Creative Audio a call on: 01743 236055 and they will let you know what's going on stock wise, they are very helpful, and also mention the price some of us have been quoted at the same time as it's a price that's not advertised on the website. If I can dig out the link to the deal when I was offered it I will do so and add a link for you. Best of luck securing one.

EDIT: I found the link I was sent when I enquired about the 2020 but the price has now gone up to £999 as you can see here:

http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/staffMemoHD.php?&p=80098654232577385196173117517268&_&CAT=HCAMP&ID=5902&ns=&UNIQUEID=78598566&aeBuyLink=1&nexd=1

Glad I got in when I did and saved myself £200 but it's worth mentioning that price is still a good £500 cheaper than elsewhere so it's still a bargain, but when you look on their website now the 2020 isn't even listed anymore and only an ex-demo offer at the above £999 is listed but the 1020 and 3020 are still listed so you would be best advised to give them a call to clarify the situation.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Out of town a while but thanks OB. Will try experiment with height first maybe on the trusty 2065. Keeping wyes open and wallet closed for a while I guess. Cheers