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Marantz PM6005 with KEF LS50's

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plastic penguin

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Apr 28, 2008
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I don't know. I think he makes sense.
The best Amps are those that do not distort the signal. Afterall, the Amp is only there to amplify the signal.
Any sonic signature that an amp may apply to the music, has to be down to it distorting the signal in some way (it cannot improve on the signal, so to suggest one amp is say more detailed than another, is in reality saying the less detailed amp has ended up degrading the signal to a much larger extent) .
Different people will read different things into this sonic signature, hence it is completely subjective. Ie some like the Naim sound, and some don't.
Considering most amps are completely subjective, what is the point of discussing it to the Nth degree?

I think he makes a lot of sense. He accepts amps may sound different to each other, but is pointing out that actually, they shouldn't if they are doing their job correctly.

I don't think he is the only one thinking along similar lines either.
The way Roy Gandy has said- "You can't polish a turd". As in, you can't improve upon a musical signal. I believe he was getting at a similar point anyway. My apologies if he wasn't.

I've been looking at the specs in more detail for Regas (Brio) and Naims (Uniti range)
Considering I'm thinking of a Uniti Star, all I can say is, it is worrying! You can certainly see why people talk of the Naim sound.
In comparison, the Brio does exactly what an amp should do.

Yes I know I am comparing two very different products, but it was a good way of checking these things out.
Firstly apologies to the OP for going slightly off-topic.

Having read some of Shaw's posts on HUG, where he claims he won't recommend any particular amp. Then on a video about the C7s he actually uses a Hegel and explains why. If that's not a recommendation not sure what is. A fabulous speaker designer but full of BS IMO.

I don't do graphs or look too deeply into amp specs. I couldn't tell you much about the Leema other than it's 80 watts per channel into 8 ohms. If it sounds right, it is right.

I think any system is about synergy. My basic rule of thumb is mix light with dark (lively and smooth). To what degree depends on room acoustics, layout and size. IME, a room, whether dedicated music room or living room is as important as the system itself.

Naim can sound great or nasty -- they are very speaker dependent. The Leema has similar traits minus the fatigue... it ticks many of the boxes.
 
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rainsoothe

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Apr 30, 2012
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I think he makes a lot of sense. He accepts amps may sound different to each other, but is pointing out that actually, they shouldn't if they are doing their job correctly.
Well neither should speakers, if you go by that logic, but in Shaw's eyes, some animals apparently are more equal than others.
 

James83

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Apr 2, 2015
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Well neither should speakers, if you go by that logic, but in Shaw's eyes, some animals apparently are more equal than others.
With that you could have a point.
But, a serious question. An amp can degrade the signal, which surely you don't want it to do?
Do the differing speakers degrade the signal (Well some might) or are they doing different things with it?
I can see both sides, but it would take one layer out of the equation if you left the Amp to do what an amp should do, and you were then left with the source and the speaker to decide upon.

I suggest there is a simple reason that doesn't happen. It doesn't suit the manufacturers when they have 'Hifi enthusiasts' that just have to keep playing with their equipment.
In other words, are you for the music, or are you for the Hifi?

I suspect the reality, as usual, is somewhere in the middle.
 

James83

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Apr 2, 2015
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Firstly apologies to the OP for going slightly off-topic.

Having read some of Shaw's posts on HUG, where he claims he won't recommend any particular amp. Then on a video about the C7s he actually uses a Hegel and explains why. If that's not a recommendation not sure what is. A fabulous speaker designer but full of BS IMO.

I don't do graphs or look too deeply into amp specs. I couldn't tell you much about the Leema other than it's 80 watts per channel into 8 ohms. If it sounds right, it is right.

I think any system is about synergy. My basic rule of thumb is mix light with dark (lively and smooth). To what degree depends on room acoustics, layout and size. IME, a room, whether dedicated music room or living room is as important as the system itself.

Naim can sound great or nasty -- they are very speaker dependent. The Leema has similar traits minus the fatigue... it ticks many of the boxes.
Oh Crikey, I don't even pretend to understand the graphs. But I try and understand certain subjects a little better, so I spent yesterday investigating the subject in a bit more detail! It was quite interesting (minus the graphs, which were above my head).

As for recommendations.
I think you are being too harsh on Mr Shaw.
He won't recommend (and in the true sense, he doesnt) because:
a. It could upset dealerships
b. It is completely subjective.

However, telling people what amp you use, is not actually recommending it in the official sense. Some may take it as such, but he isn't.
I have seen Alan Shaws preferences, but if I was after a simple amp for a Harbeth, my first port of call would be Southend, and Rega.

You have told me what amp you use, and why. But I haven't yet seen you recommend it.
 

plastic penguin

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Apr 28, 2008
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Oh Crikey, I don't even pretend to understand the graphs. But I try and understand certain subjects a little better, so I spent yesterday investigating the subject in a bit more detail! It was quite interesting (minus the graphs, which were above my head).

As for recommendations.
I think you are being too harsh on Mr Shaw.
He won't recommend (and in the true sense, he doesnt) because:
a. It could upset dealerships
b. It is completely subjective.

However, telling people what amp you use, is not actually recommending it in the official sense. Some may take it as such, but he isn't.
I have seen Alan Shaws preferences, but if I was after a simple amp for a Harbeth, my first port of call would be Southend, and Rega.

You have told me what amp you use, and why. But I haven't yet seen you recommend it.
I have a couple of times as @Al ears will testify, if a person is on a tight budget and there's a Leema for sale that could suit the speakers. Generally speaking no I don't recommend the Leema: Firstly, because years ago someone on here had a 'pop' at me and, secondly, as you rightly stated this hobby/interest (call it what you want) is so subjective that the Leema MK1 won't suit everyone's taste or set-up.

I spent two years (2008 when I joined to 2010) to find the right upgrade to my Arcam, but because I have specific taste (and limited budget at the time) no amp was worth the extra retail price. It was only when Leema replaced he MK1 with the MK3 that SSAV were selling off brand new MK1s at my budget I snapped it up. From that respect I was lucky.
 
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Al ears

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I can certainly agree with PP, amps are highly subjective and although all should aim to be " straight wire with gain" they aren't.
Over the years I have been fortunate enough to hear many systems and, in the right ones and rooms, they can be central to very good setups however it can also go horribly wrong, and that applies to all be it Naim, Rega or otherwise
like PP and his Leema I knew I simply must have Tom Evans amplification and waited a good while until it came along at the right price. Although this hindered my choice of speakers it all came good in the end.
 

James83

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2015
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I can certainly agree with PP, amps are highly subjective and although all should aim to be " straight wire with gain" they aren't.
Over the years I have been fortunate enough to hear many systems and, in the right ones and rooms, they can be central to very good setups however it can also go horribly wrong, and that applies to all be it Naim, Rega or otherwise
like PP and his Leema I knew I simply must have Tom Evans amplification and waited a good while until it came along at the right price. Although this hindered my choice of speakers it all came good in the end.
Oh I haven't disagreed with any of that.
Hey, I suppose if anything it keeps it interesting.

Me myself, I'm mainly there for the music, and hearing what is meant to be heard. Therefore I lean more to the 'straight wire with gain'. If possible, and within reason.

If it wasn't for the other benefits it has, I probably wouldn't be looking at the Uniti Star.

Anyway, is the OP still enjoying his new Cyrus?
 
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AndyCC72

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Jan 13, 2021
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Different dacs can create differences in the analogue signals, and can be more or less accurate. So they can affect the sound signature in the same way that an amp does.
I have no idea if the DAC in the Cyrus would be ‘better’ than the one in the bluesound tho - my understanding is that the bluesound DAC is pretty good
Oh I haven't disagreed with any of that.
Hey, I suppose if anything it keeps it interesting.

Me myself, I'm mainly there for the music, and hearing what is meant to be heard. Therefore I lean more to the 'straight wire with gain'. If possible, and within reason.

If it wasn't for the other benefits it has, I probably wouldn't be looking at the Uniti Star.

Anyway, is the OP still enjoying his new Cyrus?
Hugely; the improvement on the Marantz is real. I’ve had it up to two thirds volume and it still sounds good. I’m enjoying the house music as much as the other genres now ...over the moon.

My new set-up is the best I’ve ever had and I want to play it all day..unfortunately the wife and child are not as keen as me on this idea 😂
 

AndyCC72

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2021
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😂😂 she certainly thinks she does!!

soul & house are my first loves but I listen to most other genres in smaller doses. They’re all sounding great now.

I just signed up to AmazonHD and it sounds great through Bluesound Node2i.
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
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😂😂 she certainly thinks she does!!

soul & house are my first loves but I listen to most other genres in smaller doses. They’re all sounding great now.

I just signed up to AmazonHD and it sounds great through Bluesound Node2i.
Sounds like a well sorted system you have.

Tonight I've been listening to Lennie Kravitz first album 'Let Love Rule'. The texture in his voice and timbre of the instruments makes the hairs on the back on my neck stand up. If you haven't got this album, it's worth getting regardless of format. Mines on vinyl. Fab.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbiqy2TOwBw
 

James83

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2015
85
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10,545
Sounds like a well sorted system you have.

Tonight I've been listening to Lennie Kravitz first album 'Let Love Rule'. The texture in his voice and timbre of the instruments makes the hairs on the back on my neck stand up. If you haven't got this album, it's worth getting regardless of format. Mines on vinyl. Fab.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbiqy2TOwBw
We're you a salesman in a previous life?!!!
Ok. When I get home I shall take a listen. If I like it, then it can add to my LP collection!
 

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