Marantz PM6005 with KEF LS50's

[plastic penguin]

The LS50's arrived today and I've been blown away and mildly concerned in equal measure.

I've heard things I've never heard when playing, Pop, Rock, some Reggae and some slower Soul, but for House music, which accounts for 50% of my listening I'm not totally convinced. The detail is superb (compared to my Tannoy Mercury V4's) and I can definitely see what all the fuss is about.

I've never heard Bill Withers' Ain't No Sunshine and Joan Armatradng's, Love and Affection sound so good, nearly moved my soppy middle aged ass to tears......superb.

I'm running them on the Marantz PM6005 until Monday when my new Cyrus One amp is arriving. Be interested to hear the difference.

Overall very pleased and think once I get the new amp in, mess about with placement and they've run in I'll be even happier. Thus far I'm optimistic

Also just put in the new AKG KZ12 headphones after the Mrs insisted i turn the music off....they're the first pair of HiFi head phones i've owned and they're excellent, well pleased with them too. A good day all in all.

Nice one. What's the mild concern?

I mentioned my slight concern regarding the Cyrus, because on the more expensive ones the presentation can sound sterile and a little analytic for my taste. I'd rather trade a little detail for a natural sound. However, a pre/power combination has a bit more bulk to its presentation.

I could be wrong as I've not heard Cyrus One before.

When I had the LS50s on home demo, they were great in many respects, but compared to my PMCs sounded a little too modern, if that makes sense. PMCs has more of an old skool sound, little more musical as well.

 

[gregvet]

What is it specifically with house music that isn’t convincing you? The bass response?

 

[AndyCC72]

Nice one. What's the mild concern?

I mentioned my slight concern regarding the Cyrus, because on the more expensive ones the presentation can sound sterile and a little analytic for my taste. I'd rather trade a little detail for a natural sound. However, a pre/power combination has a bit more bulk to its presentation.

I could be wrong as I've not heard Cyrus One before.

When I had the LS50s on home demo, they were great in many respects, but compared to my PMCs sounded a little too modern, if that makes sense. PMCs has more of an old skool sound, little more musical as well.

I can't quite put my finger on it if I'm being honest. I listen to soulful house in the main, which is basically up-tempo soul (not EDM or hard techno) and it's just lacking that bit of warmth that I like. Hopefully when they have run in that will develop.

But for the other genres i've been very impressed. The thing is Soulful house is my first love so we'll see how this develops

 

[AndyCC72]

What is it specifically with house music that isn’t convincing you? The bass response?

See above. I can't really articulate it better than in my response to plastic penguin.

New Amp arrives Monday, will provide update then.

Cheers
A

 

[plastic penguin]

I can't quite put my finger on it if I'm being honest. I listen to soulful house in the main, which is basically up-tempo soul (not EDM or hard techno) and it's just lacking that bit of warmth that I like. Hopefully when they have run in that will develop.

But for the other genres i've been very impressed. The thing is Soulful house is my first love so we'll see how this develops

My 'Go to' genre is classical and neo Soul, Funk and general R&B.

Think you'll need to give the speakers a few days to acclimatize to the new presentation. Or if they are new they will need a few days to burn in or run in. Any hi-fi component that has moving parts needs this.

Look forward to reading your thoughts on the Cyrus and Kefs.

 

[James83]

Firstly Welocme!

Well they will make sound and probably sound better then what you have but at higher volumes, they will
start to lose control, they're not very amp friendly ar the kef ls50's, I've read that the newer Metas are little friendly though.

In all honesty, if you have no plans to replace the amp i think you would be better off saving your money and returning them.

BUT if still want some new speakers I think with that amp and I generally don't like spending more on speakers then amp, but the Wharfedale lintons might be a good shout! and with better amps in the future, they'll only get better. End game speaker for many! The bad they can go as low as 3.5ohms, so really you'd need to go and listen to make sure the amp can handle them, the upshot is their sensitivity is nice and hight so you have more than enough watts to rock out with them.

More price comparable speaker I think for your amp would be a nice pair Dali Speaktors. They should pair nicely with the amp.

But as i said I'm sure you'll love the ls50's if you decide to keep them just be aware they could be a lot better. They wouldn't be out of place with 2-3k of amp on them. So plenty of scope for further upgrades

Hope that helps a little

I'm sure you could find a powerful enough amp for less than 2-3k.
If all you want it to do is act as an amp.

 

[AndyCC72]

I'm sure you could find a powerful enough amp for less than 2-3k.
If all you want it to do is act as an amp.

I bought the Cyrus One - 100wpc for £700

 

[AndyCC72]

My 'Go to' genre is classical and neo Soul, Funk and general R&B.

Think you'll need to give the speakers a few days to acclimatize to the new presentation. Or if they are new they will need a few days to burn in or run in. Any hi-fi component that has moving parts needs this.

Look forward to reading your thoughts on the Cyrus and Kefs.

They're new.....definitely need time to run in. I'll let you know how it goes with the Cyrus.

Cheers
A

 

[Surly Sid]

The LS50's arrived today and I've been blown away and mildly concerned in equal measure.

I've heard things I've never heard when playing, Pop, Rock, some Reggae and some slower Soul, but for House music, which accounts for 50% of my listening I'm not totally convinced. The detail is superb (compared to my Tannoy Mercury V4's) and I can definitely see what all the fuss is about.

I've never heard Bill Withers' Ain't No Sunshine and Joan Armatradng's, Love and Affection sound so good, nearly moved my soppy middle aged ass to tears......superb.

I'm running them on the Marantz PM6005 until Monday when my new Cyrus One amp is arriving. Be interested to hear the difference.

Overall very pleased and think once I get the new amp in, mess about with placement and they've run in I'll be even happier. Thus far I'm optimistic

Also just put in the new AKG KZ12 headphones after the Mrs insisted i turn the music off....they're the first pair of HiFi head phones i've owned and they're excellent, well pleased with them too. A good day all in all.

The LS50s impress for short periods. Let us know how you like them in a month.

 

[plastic penguin]

They're new.....definitely need time to run in. I'll let you know how it goes with the Cyrus.

Cheers
A

You will have to bear in mind that all hi-fi, no matter how good, is a compromise. By that I mean different will major in various aspects and genres. Unfortunately, you can plough as much money as the bank balance will allow, and that compromise will still be audible.

For instance, although my system is a very good all-rounder, it does shine brighter with Soul, Funk and acoustic/unplugged/vocal music.

This may be the case with these LS50s: There might be something missing with certain genre as you suggested earlier, chances are you'll have to live with that.

IIRC, when I had the LS50s they did prefer more upbeat/rock music.

 

[AndyCC72]

You will have to bear in mind that all hi-fi, no matter how good, is a compromise. By that I mean different will major in various aspects and genres. Unfortunately, you can plough as much money as the bank balance will allow, and that compromise will still be audible.

For instance, although my system is a very good all-rounder, it does shine brighter with Soul, Funk and acoustic/unplugged/vocal music.

This may be the case with these LS50s: There might be something missing with certain genre as you suggested earlier, chances are you'll have to live with that.

IIRC, when I had the LS50s they did prefer more upbeat/rock music.

I beginning to understand that and im
Happy to comprise..... to a point.

I had always planned to get a sub woofer and I’ve since read in a few places that this helps electronic music sound more rounded on the LS50’s. Any thoughts on that ?

I’m going to keep plugging away for the next 3 weeks and if I’m still not sure about them for house music I can always send them back. I’d be loath to do that though because as I said the detail on them is like nothing I personally have heard and I doubt you could get that elsewhere for £550.

The Cyrus One arrived this morning, two days earlier than expected. Happy Days ...

 

[plastic penguin]

I beginning to understand that and im
Happy to comprise..... to a point.

I had always planned to get a sub woofer and I’ve since read in a few places that this helps electronic music sound more rounded on the LS50’s. Any thoughts on that ?

I’m going to keep plugging away for the next 3 weeks and if I’m still not sure about them for house music I can always send them back. I’d be loath to do that though because as I said the detail on them is like nothing I personally have heard and I doubt you could get that elsewhere for £550.

The Cyrus One arrived this morning, two days earlier than expected. Happy Days ...

Fair play.

Of course use up as much of the returns as you can as it'll be wrong to sling them back after a couple of days. Like all of us we live with a compromise. Hi-fi has never been an exact science.

 

[AndyCC72]

Fair play.

Of course use up as much of the returns as you can as it'll be wrong to sling them back after a couple of days. Like all of us we live with a compromise. Hi-fi has never been an exact science.

What are your thoughts on the sub woofer ?

 

[James83]

Fair play.

Of course use up as much of the returns as you can as it'll be wrong to sling them back after a couple of days. Like all of us we live with a compromise. Hi-fi has never been an exact science.

Probably one of the reasons Alan Shaw says you don't need to spend loads of money on accessories and amps etc.

Finding a speaker that excels at everything is going to cost the earth.
At least the OP didn't heed the advice of spending 2-3k.
Just a normal amp with enough oomph, and which hopefully doesn't do anything untoward to the signal.

 

[AndyCC72]

Probably one of the reasons Alan Shaw says you don't need to spend loads of money on accessories and amps etc.

Finding a speaker that excels at everything is going to cost the earth.
At least the OP didn't heed the advice of spending 2-3k.
Just a normal amp with enough oomph, and which hopefully doesn't do anything untoward to the signal.

£700 and im over the moon with it ..definite improvement on the Marantz.

 

[AndyCC72]

Fair play.

Of course use up as much of the returns as you can as it'll be wrong to sling them back after a couple of days. Like all of us we live with a compromise. Hi-fi has never been an exact science.

The Cyrus One is in and the improvement is real. My soulful house and house in general is sounding better ..im well pleased. It’s a marked improvement on the Marantz. I’ve loved that Marantnz amp, lovely warm sound but for these speakers/set up the Cyrus is a definite impovent.

rhe Bluesound Node2i has been a revelation...superb bit of kit.. sound quality is spot on.

everyone has gone out for a long walk so I should have 2-3 hours to play around.

 

[nopiano]

The Cyrus One is in and the improvement is real. My soulful house and house in general is sounding better ..im well pleased. It’s a marked improvement on the Marantz. I’ve loved that Marantnz amp, lovely warm sound but for these speakers/set up the Cyrus is a definite impovent.

rhe Bluesound Node2i has been a revelation...superb bit of kit.. sound quality is spot on.

everyone has gone out for a long walk so I should have 2-3 hours to play around.

That’s good to read, and don’t forget to just enjoy it and let the kit run in and your ears get accustomed. In a week or so, you might want to tinker with placement to fine tune the sound.

 

[rainsoothe]

The Cyrus One is in and the improvement is real. My soulful house and house in general is sounding better ..im well pleased. It’s a marked improvement on the Marantz. I’ve loved that Marantnz amp, lovely warm sound but for these speakers/set up the Cyrus is a definite impovent.

rhe Bluesound Node2i has been a revelation...superb bit of kit.. sound quality is spot on.

everyone has gone out for a long walk so I should have 2-3 hours to play around.

I quite like the Cyrus One myself, and it's definitely more forgiving than their upper models, which can be considered bright. I think it strikes a pretty good balance between detail and musicality. If you would've gotten the Cyrus One HD, you could've run the node thru it's DAC.

 

[AndyCC72]

I quite like the Cyrus One myself, and it's definitely more forgiving than their upper models, which can be considered bright. I think it strikes a pretty good balance between detail and musicality. If you would've gotten the Cyrus One HD, you could've run the node thru it's DAC.
[/QUOTE

the node 2i has its own DAC, why wouldyou need to run through the DAC on theOne HD? Genuine question, DAC’s are all new to me.

 

[gregvet]

The Cyrus One is in and the improvement is real. My soulful house and house in general is sounding better ..im well pleased. It’s a marked improvement on the Marantz. I’ve loved that Marantnz amp, lovely warm sound but for these speakers/set up the Cyrus is a definite impovent.

rhe Bluesound Node2i has been a revelation...superb bit of kit.. sound quality is spot on.

everyone has gone out for a long walk so I should have 2-3 hours to play around.

Glad to hear your initial thoughts are positive. Let us know how you feel once you have spent more time listening to the new system 😀

 

[gregvet]

Different dacs can create differences in the analogue signals, and can be more or less accurate. So they can affect the sound signature in the same way that an amp does.
I have no idea if the DAC in the Cyrus would be ‘better’ than the one in the bluesound tho - my understanding is that the bluesound DAC is pretty good

 

[AndyCC72]

Glad to hear your initial thoughts are positive. Let us know how you feel once you have spent more time listening to the new system 😀

Definitely, will do. Loving it at the moment, like a kid in a sweet shop.

 

[plastic penguin]

What are your thoughts on the sub woofer ?

Congrats. They seem to be a good match for your system.

When I've heard a sub they were very good, certainly adds that missing link for small monitors. Mrs. P won't let me have one. Her philosophy has always been: "No additional boxes..." and that's why I've had the RS6s since 2005 and the medium sized PMC TB2i since 2013. They don't make up for a sub but it's that old "compromise" word again.

At some point over the next year I will upgrade my speakers, probably to Harbeth C7 ES3 XD.

 

[plastic penguin]

Probably one of the reasons Alan Shaw says you don't need to spend loads of money on accessories and amps etc.

Finding a speaker that excels at everything is going to cost the earth.
At least the OP didn't heed the advice of spending 2-3k.
Just a normal amp with enough oomph, and which hopefully doesn't do anything untoward to the signal.

Indeed. 2-3k is not necessary. My Leema controlled and drove the LS50s well, although there was a slight loss of volume but nothing to lose sleep over.

I'm a big fan of Harbeth but think Shaw's views are somewhat wayward.

 

[James83]

Indeed. 2-3k is not necessary. My Leema controlled and drove the LS50s well, although there was a slight loss of volume but nothing to lose sleep over.

I'm a big fan of Harbeth but think Shaw's views are somewhat wayward.

I don't know. I think he makes sense.
The best Amps are those that do not distort the signal. Afterall, the Amp is only there to amplify the signal.
Any sonic signature that an amp may apply to the music, has to be down to it distorting the signal in some way (it cannot improve on the signal, so to suggest one amp is say more detailed than another, is in reality saying the less detailed amp has ended up degrading the signal to a much larger extent) .

Different people will read different things into this sonic signature, hence it is completely subjective. Ie some like the Naim sound, and some don't.
Considering most amps are completely subjective, what is the point of discussing it to the Nth degree?

I think he makes a lot of sense. He accepts amps may sound different to each other, but is pointing out that actually, they shouldn't if they are doing their job correctly.

I don't think he is the only one thinking along similar lines either.
The way Roy Gandy has said- "You can't polish a turd". As in, you can't improve upon a musical signal. I believe he was getting at a similar point anyway. My apologies if he wasn't.

I've been looking at the specs in more detail for Regas (Brio) and Naims (Uniti range)
Considering I'm thinking of a Uniti Star, all I can say is, it is worrying! You can certainly see why people talk of the Naim sound.
In comparison, the Brio does exactly what an amp should do.

Yes I know I am comparing two very different products, but it was a good way of checking these things out.