Mains leads and biwiring are total nonsense

[Anonymous]

Mr McAlpine, I salute you for your continuing, unswerving, dogged insistence that it's all a load of rubbish, in the face of overwhelming opposition. Not that I necessarily agree.

Anyway, to get back to the original request, how about that blind test in the magazine? I seem to remember there was something similar many issues ago, where they got a bunch of doubting readers on the sofa and exposed them to hi-end interconnects... but to no avail.

 

[professorhat]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
But unfortunately the captive mains lead proved something of a drawback
[/quote]

Classic!

 

[John Duncan]

I asked a friend for a scientific explanation (because we like those).

"Out-of-the-box mains cable:

- can act as an aerial for radio frequency interference, which is then mistakenly amplified by the hifi amp and mixed up with the signal coming from the source. A particular problem with phono amplification as the source signal is typically around 10% that of other sources such as CD

- carries power already distorted by other 'noisy' appliances such as fridges. These distortions are only occasionally amplified (eg popping when the fridge compressor turns on), but mainly just reduce the amp's ability to work at its best as it doesn't have a good quality mains signal to power it

A properly designed mains cable can counteract these particularly by rejecting RFI - say, by using a twisted topology - and to a lesser extent by filtering out the noise from other applicances.

Low-end interconnects:

- distort the signal coming from sources by adding resistance or reactance inherent in the materials used. ie they're not 'pure' conductors, so the signal going in at one end is not the same one as comes out the other

- can also potentially act as an aerial for RF interference, but mostly they're pretty well shielded"

He's an electrical engineer. For Scottish Power. They make electricity, you know.

Can I go home now please?

 

[John Duncan]

[quote user="tractorboy"]Anyway, to get back to the original request, how about that blind test in the magazine? I seem to remember there was something similar many issues ago, where they got a bunch of doubting readers on the sofa and exposed them to hi-end interconnects... but to no avail.[/quote]

Yes. WHF Team - I live five minutes from your office, and my wife thinks that all hifi sounds the same. I propose that she comes round and does the blind test. I will provide the tuppence-ha'penny interconnects, you provide the Nordost Valhallas. Winner takes all.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]This is just waffle..[/quote]

Pardon????? You seriously wrote that? Lawks, you're comprehension of physics is more lacking than I thought.

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]Any well designed bit of kit will be unaffected by your bog standard unfiltered unpasteurised mains supply. They're specifically designed to run on it, for gawds sake. If it was adversely affected if you put the volume up between tracks you would surely hear it in the form of noise with your super sensitive, as opposed to my cloth, lugholes. [/quote]

Any piece of kit is designed to a budget. It matters not how well it is designed if the budget doesn't allow for perfect mains filtering. Since perfection is in this case impossible, no piece of kit can ever be designed to have it. Of course perfection isn't necessary but the question "what is good enough" is always going to be subjective and also budget constrained.

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]BTW I did design a car alarm once.:O)
[/quote]

So that's why the bloody things always go off for no reason is it?

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="jimwall"]So that's why the bloody things always go off for no reason is it?[/quote]

No, that's non-existent interference going up the captive mains cable and not being caught by the kind of power supply anybody with even a rudimentary knowledge of electronics would have designed.

 

[JoelSim]

Andrew,

Please arrange a blind listening test, everyone on this post, those who believe in Jesus, those who believe in Adam Ant, those who are sceptics will be the honest punters used in the research.

Headline article in the April issue

'DO MAINS LEADS MAKE A DIFFERENCE'

We got together a number of our valued readers from the What Hi Fi forum, all with differing opinions and we found...'

It would also be a huge advertisement for the forum in general to all you readers.

 

[professorhat]

Think that would have to be Clare to give the okay on that one. Being the Editor and all...

 

[John Duncan]

[quote user="JoelSim"]Andrew,

Please arrange a blind listening test, everyone on this post, those who believe in Jesus, those who believe in Adam Ant, those who are sceptics will be the honest punters used in the research.

Headline article in the April issue

'DO MAINS LEADS MAKE A DIFFERENCE'

We got together a number of our valued readers from the What Hi Fi forum, all with differing opinions and we found...'

It would also be a huge advertisement for the forum in general to all you readers.[/quote]

Brilliant. In fact, let's do it round my house. Wife'll do a chilli.

 

[John Duncan]

[quote user="professorhat"]
Think that would have to be Clare to give the okay on that one. Being the Editor and all...
[/quote]OK, Clare's house then. Can somebody bring a pudding?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="JohnDuncan"]"Out-of-the-box mains cable:

- can act as an aerial for radio frequency interference, which is then mistakenly amplified by the hifi amp and mixed up with the signal coming from the source. A particular problem with phono amplification as the source signal is typically around 10% that of other sources such as CD[/quote]

Can, but in practice generally doesn't and even if it did you would only hear it on a poorly designed amplifier. An expensive shielded mains cable could also do the same thing.[quote user="JohnDuncan"]

A properly designed mains cable can counteract these particularly by rejecting RFI - say, by using a twisted topology - and to a lesser extent by filtering out the noise from other applicances.[/quote]

An amp so affected would need to also be wide open to such interference and therefore of poor design. The problem would be very obvious as It would pop and click every time something switched on. I thought we were talking high end here.[quote user="JohnDuncan"]ow-end interconnects:

- distort the signal coming from sources by adding resistance or reactance inherent in the materials used. ie they're not 'pure' conductors, so the signal going in at one end is not the same one as comes out the other[/quote]

Complete and utter pseudoscientific tosh, sounds just like it's from a cable vendor's website. No small length of screened wire can possibly distort the sound. If the lead is extremely long it might conceivably attenuate the treble.

[quote user="JohnDuncan"]

He's an electrical engineer. For Scottish Power. They make electricity, you know.[/quote]

Everyone should stick to talking about what they know rather than pontificate about something of which they have little knowledge. That way nobody is misled.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="JohnDuncan"][quote user="tractorboy"]Anyway, to get back to the original request, how about that blind test in the magazine? I seem to remember there was something similar many issues ago, where they got a bunch of doubting readers on the sofa and exposed them to hi-end interconnects... but to no avail.[/quote]

Yes. WHF Team - I live five minutes from your office, and my wife thinks that all hifi sounds the same. I propose that she comes round and does the blind test. I will provide the tuppence-ha'penny interconnects, you provide the Nordost Valhallas. Winner takes all.

[/quote]

Good, we're agreed then. I'll bring some chocolate digestives and a thermos of tea. Just name the day and time.

 

[JoelSim]

I think we'd have to do it under proper studio conditions, although we could have a chilli afterwards while that girlfriend is having her kidney removed

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="JoelSim"]Headline article in the April issue

'DO MAINS LEADS MAKE A DIFFERENCE'

We got together a number of our valued readers from the What Hi Fi forum, all with differing opinions and we found...'[/quote]

Yeah, that should fly off the shelves in Tesco...

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="JohnDuncan"]OK, Clare's house then. Can somebody bring a pudding?[/quote]
Mr. McAlpine perhaps?

 

[John Duncan]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]Everyone should stick to talking about what they know rather than pontificate about something of which they have little knowledge. That way nobody is misled.[/quote]

Which is why his Gyrodec/Dynavector/Dino/Alchemist/Moon/Sonus Faber/Abbey Road system sounds the way it does, I suppose.

 

[John Duncan]

[quote user="tractorboy"]Good, we're agreed then. I'll bring some chocolate digestives and a thermos of tea. Just name the day and time.[/quote]

My system sounds better with Hob Nobs.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="JohnDuncan"][quote user="tractorboy"]Good, we're agreed then. I'll bring some chocolate digestives and a thermos of tea. Just name the day and time.[/quote]

My system sounds better with Hob Nobs.[/quote]

I think you'll find that the noise levels generated by their relative crunchiness can actually impede some of the higher frequencies, so I beg to differ.

 

[John Duncan]

[quote user="JohnDuncan"]My system sounds better with Hob Nobs.[/quote]

Except, of course, it can't. They're just biscuits.

 

[JoelSim]

It appears that these are the 'main' topic of conversation on these forums, if you'll forgive the pun...

It could be extended to test interconnects, speaker cables and would also provide the magazine with some real integration with your readers.

Let's be havin' ya!

 

[John Duncan]

[quote user="tractorboy"][quote user="JohnDuncan"][quote user="tractorboy"]Good, we're agreed then. I'll bring some chocolate digestives and a thermos of tea. Just name the day and time.[/quote]

My system sounds better with Hob Nobs.[/quote]

I think you'll find that the noise levels generated by their relative crunchiness can actually impede some of the higher frequencies, so I beg to differ.[/quote]

This is pseudoscientific tosh. it sounds like it came from some biscuit (or other confectionery or sweetmeats) manufacturer's website. I would refer you all to

http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com

where at least they know what they're talking about.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="JohnDuncan"]Which is why his Gyrodec/Dynavector/Dino/Alchemist/Moon/Sonus Faber/Abbey Road system sounds the way it does, I suppose.[/quote]

So he runs a studio as well as climbing pylons eh?

 

[JoelSim]

Maybe if WHFS&V can't do the test, then we should go for that Chilli after all, and conduct our own.

Where do you live?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="JohnDuncan"][quote user="tractorboy"][quote user="JohnDuncan"][quote user="tractorboy"]Good, we're agreed then. I'll bring some chocolate digestives and a thermos of tea. Just name the day and time.[/quote]

My system sounds better with Hob Nobs.[/quote]

I think you'll find that the noise levels generated by their relative crunchiness can actually impede some of the higher frequencies, so I beg to differ.[/quote]

This is pseudoscientific tosh. it sounds like it came from some biscuit (or other confectionery or sweetmeats) manufacturer's website. I would refer you all to

http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com

where at least they know what they're talking about.[/quote]

I'm sorry but this is just waffles.

 

[John Duncan]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"][quote user="JohnDuncan"]Which is why his Gyrodec/Dynavector/Dino/Alchemist/Moon/Sonus Faber/Abbey Road system sounds the way it does, I suppose.[/quote]

So he runs a studio as well as climbing pylons eh?[/quote]

Abbey Road is an interconnect by Red Line, but you wouldn't know that, since they're all the same