Loyalty to a dealer - at what price??

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
One thing I don't think anyone's mentioned so far - if you have a familiar dealer, and a quote from somewhere else, who says the dealer has to match it? Surely with the level of service provided by the specialist dealer, that's worth something over and above the cheap quote from the dealer who has done nothing but pressed a few buttons on a calculator. Surely some sort of deal could be arranged where the dealer meets you somewhere in between.

Plus, those products you've hunted down a cheap price for, may not even be the right ones for you. If you don't mention this to your dealer and just buy them, you could be making a big mistake. Mentioning the price to the dealer and asking him if he can get close, will bring it to his attention, and because he knows you, might know straight away whether the system would be right for you, and more importantly, if it's completely the wrong thing.

I agree that they do not necessarily have to match it - it is up to them what they charge and are willing to give away on price.

Yes they may meet me some way in between and that would be great - but I am weighing up how much physical extra money it is worth to retain that past relationship... would I pay an extra £500, £1000, £2000 to buy the same kit from them, as another dealer I know less well?

The whole point is that it is high-end kit that I have carefully chosen by seeing a number of dealers. My local one was first, and I have returned to try a few other options and now settled on what I want - but along the way, found other dealers selling the same items, potentially at a larger discount. Hence - I know the kit is the right stuff for me and having found what I want I then do have to consider price in to the bargain. It's not like I'm buying a £300 CD player and arguing over £50 - I would always go with my known local dealer in that scenario.

 

[Anonymous]

I always ask for a price match or what I believe to be the lowest sensible retail price, after all we are all in the game and business is business. As many have said it cuts both ways. There is nothing wrong with attempting to get a discount provided its done in a polite, fair and friendly manner.

I have found that the biggest problem in retail is actually finding an assistant who knows what they are talking about. Very few people in the business have the skills of "listening" and there is nothing more annoying when the assistant plainly launches off into scripted replies.

I know everyone has to learn but HI FI is one of the many subjects which lends itself to people talking complete rubbish!

So I guess its like most things there is a balance to be struck between service and box shifting.

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

gpi ... in regard to your comment:-

"Just my opinion and the reason behind my tone. To me your decision is obvious so what other motive would you have? Bragging perhaps? It's not even high-end gear you are considering."

Actually it IS high-end gear - that's why it's important to me.

I like my local dealer and trust them for service needs .... AND as I have said already - at high-end prices a small % in to discount can be a fair saving.......

 

[Frank Harvey]

matengawhat: I agree your turnover will not be like that of Argos but you still make a good % profit on items although sure some manufacturers are prob better than others. My personal experience says that you still make a fair amount of money - one large manufacturer no names mentioned but that you stock used to offer (not sure if still do) an extra 10% discount off invoice if paid within 7 or 14 days can't rem which but on high end items that was a nice breathing space plus then the rrp mark up on top of that so always some negotiation surely???Sometimes a retailer needs a little extra in order to even compete with the hack merchants of the hi-fi world. There are actually many dealers who don't take up that settlement offer, they just don't have the turnover to do so.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Cable Lover:I have no idea whether the retailer with the widest range is the busiest, however, I do note that Curry's and Dixons have consistently full car parks on a week-end. I'm only interested in getting the best bang for the buck for myself. Of course, the dealer's attitude is important. The likes of Currys and Dixons are the busiest because they have the widest range of 'electronics', and by theat I include everything electrical. People still shop there despite the constant gripes on forums regarding their knowledge and service. Price is King for the majority.

Before booking a demo, do you ask the customer if they have a budget for the kit and what it is they want to achieve? If you are demo'ing to people with no budget and no idea, what is the conversion rate? I'm going to assume it's not highIt depends if they're serious about buying. Our range is big enough to be able to cater for most people, particularly regarding speakers.

 

[jc.com]

One interesting thing I've noticed on these fora is the frequent advice to a) audition before purchase, and b) save money by buying second-hand. (Often that well-known internet auction site is mentioned)

It is often difficult to be loyal to a dealer and follow both of these pieces of advice.

 

[matthewpiano]

My entire current system was purchased second hand and there are advantages. For a total of £400 (plus stands and cables which I bought new some time ago) I got a system which would be impossible to match buying new kit at the same price. At a time when I'm feeling a little light of pocket this was ideal.

However, this is really my spending ceiling for used kit. Anymore outlay than this and I'd be wanting to audition at a good dealer and buy new from them with all the associated support.

 

[gpi]

jc.com:
One interesting thing I've noticed on these fora is the frequent advice to a) audition before purchase, and b) save money by buying second-hand. (Often that well-known internet auction site is mentioned)

It is often difficult to be loyal to a dealer and follow both of these pieces of advice.

I don't think so jc, as making a decision to buy second-hand would not involve booking an audition with a dealer. Now that would be cheeky if the item was still available as new. In the case of ex-dem, the same moral rules apply. I just couldn't walk into my local dealers again if I did what the OP is asking advice on. This topic is about scruples when choosing and buying new kit, not used or traded in. The amount of potential saving in money terms shouldn't be part of the equation IMHO, as to cite that as a valid reason for using a dealer simply to make a decision is just selfish and mean.

 

[Anonymous]

Regarding value and price. Please define value!! I used to collect relatively high-end watches. Many of these dealers, because of the value of the items would look down their noses at you if you dared suggest a discount, or unless you were a stinking rich repeat customer. The only thing these snooty dealers did was stock the product so you could try it on, and provide a thick pile carpet for you to tread on whilst you approached a set of table and chairs. This is hardly adding value. On the basis that I could get the item from other authorised dealers, and that in all cases any after sales service would be carried out by the manufacturer, the cheapest always won. It was no coincidence that one particular dealer was always ready to deal, and today they are one of the biggest sellers of high end time pieces in the UK.

I imagine the same is true of many hi-fi dealers. If they have a limited range of product, pretty much all they are doing is stocking the product so someone can have a listen. It's hardly earth-shattering stuff. Especially as the warranty work is handled by the manufacturer.

I can definitely imagine dealers adding value to people who do not know what they want, nor how much they want to spend. The issue is working out who the serious ones are. The other way is lending you kit for a home audition - although I can see numerous risks with that....

I can envisage a time where many types of product will be demonstrated in manufacturer owned showrooms, but ordered and delivered over the internet. Perhaps hi-fi will escape this because products need to be listened to. On the other hand, budget hi-fi is getting better and better, maybe many brands will begin to disappear as the gap between the different price levels of hi-fi continue to narrow.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Cable Lover:I imagine the same is true of many hi-fi dealers. If they have a limited range of product, pretty much all they are doing is stocking the product so someone can have a listen. It's hardly earth-shattering stuff. Especially as the warranty work is handled by the manufacturer.Whether it's a limited range or not, there's far more to sitting in a shop of toys waiting for a customer to walk through the door. Well it is here anyway.

Any dealer not pulling their weight or doing what's needed doesn't have a bright future, and I think we'll see a few disappear over the next 6 months as we did a couple of years ago.

I can envisage a time where many types of product will be demonstrated in manufacturer owned showrooms, but ordered and delivered over the internet. Perhaps hi-fi will escape this because products need to be listened to. On the other hand, budget hi-fi is getting better and better, maybe many brands will begin to disappear as the gap between the different price levels of hi-fi continue to narrow.It depends what you class as budget. The way I see it is that budget hi-fi (entry level) is being made cheaper and cheaper, which is affecting it's quality, so buying anything new under a couple of hundred quid is quite compromised on either parts, build, or both. Entry level hi-fi (and AV amps) will never get anywhere near the higher end products because the money just isn't there to do what's needed to do.

The only thing that has brough entry level closer to higher end is HD audio decoding, but to appreciate it's full benefit you need the right amplification for it.

 

[jc.com]

gpi:jc.com:

One interesting thing I've noticed on these fora is the frequent advice to a) audition before purchase, and b) save money by buying second-hand. (Often that well-known internet auction site is mentioned)

It is often difficult to be loyal to a dealer and follow both of these pieces of advice.

I don't think so jc, as making a decision to buy second-hand would not involve booking an audition with a dealer. Now that would be cheeky if the item was still available as new. In the case of ex-dem, the same moral rules apply. I just couldn't walk into my local dealers again if I did what the OP is asking advice on. This topic is about scruples when choosing and buying new kit, not used or traded in. The amount of potential saving in money terms shouldn't be part of the equation IMHO, as to cite that as a valid reason for using a dealer simply to make a decision is just selfish and mean.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, as my point was more or less the same as yours. However, the question remains: How do you decide what to buy? The advice is usually to use your ears, which unless you have a lot of mates with varied kit, that just happens to be in your budget, means going to a dealer. Having thus decided, you then have to make the decision to buy somewhere. The same scruples apply in my opinion: if a dealer has taken the trouble to demo something to you (new or 2nd hand) that you decide to buy, then do you reward him with the business or head for fleabay for even bigger savings?.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Cable Lover:

I imagine the same is true of many hi-fi dealers. If they have a limited range of product, pretty much all they are doing is stocking the product so someone can have a listen. It's hardly earth-shattering stuff. Especially as the warranty work is handled by the manufacturer.

It may be that some dealers do that but I can assure you there are plenty of us who are in this to provide expertise and service rather than just process box sales. As I said before there are many people who require specialist retailers.

Cable Lover:

I can envisage a time where many types of product will be demonstrated in manufacturer owned showrooms, but ordered and delivered over the internet. Perhaps hi-fi will escape this because products need to be listened to. On the other hand, budget hi-fi is getting better and better, maybe many brands will begin to disappear as the gap between the different price levels of hi-fi continue to narrow.

I can't see that myself. What I can see is that the bulk of entry level hifi will be lost from specialist stores and big internet sites and the supermarkets will pick up this business. The big chains have tried "hi-fi" and now stick to "all in one" systems so in years to come this market will vanish along with the customer base. We are very close to this now.

There will still be choice at the medium to high end but the number of dealers will reduce again.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:Fusion: I am also upgrading speakers soon and considering around 7 different models. I'll have to visit 4-5 stores to audition them all, and of course will only buy from one of them. Which brands were you thinking of?

In approximate order of price (low to high):

B&W 685, Monitor Audio RX2, Tannoy Revolution Signature DC6, Paradigm Studio 20, ProAc Studio 110, Dynaudio Excite X16, Totem Sttaf, and PMC TB2i.

There is obviously a big price discrepancy between the low (B&W) and the high (PMC). I had the PMC's in home for a couple of days and loved them, but if I can love another one of those speakers (and save a good chunk of money) then that would be preferable. But if I really love the PMC's more than the rest I will probably buy them. The RX2 is the most intriguing speaker on my list with the big driver. The Totem is the only floorstander on my list...it's there because from what others say it has the sound I am looking for.

 

[Anonymous]

hi big air,i only read these forums once a week so sorry if my reply is a bit late,but i would like to share my experience with you,loyalty in my opinion is important,it has taken me quite a few years to find what is in my opinion a quality dealer,that is one who is passionate about hifi(nothing else),is very knowledgeable and glad to share it,whose hifi on demo is always run in and giving its best,and who wants to sell you the right product for your system and who is happy to accomodate my own equipment in any demo,far too many dealers i have come across dont satisfy my criteria,so rather than be disappointed i carry on shopping around,price is important but it is not the be all and end all,there are more important things,this is my opinion,ultimately its up to you,but give your favoured local dealer every chance,he probably deserves it,best of luck anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

Well I'm pleased to say my local/known dealer has come up trumps and we are doing the deal - thank goodness for that.

Their first opening was a touch high, so I came clean with them and they have done me a great deal, including a good part exchange on my amp and some speaker cable I previously had from them.

All in all I am very pleased now!

 

[Frank Harvey]

Fusion: FrankHarveyHiFi:Fusion: I am also upgrading speakers soon and considering around 7 different models. I'll have to visit 4-5 stores to audition them all, and of course will only buy from one of them. Which brands were you thinking of?In approximate order of price (low to high):

B&W 685, Monitor Audio RX2, Tannoy Revolution Signature DC6, Paradigm Studio 20, ProAc Studio 110, Dynaudio Excite X16, Totem Sttaf, and PMC TB2i.

There is obviously a big price discrepancy between the low (B&W) and the high (PMC). I had the PMC's in home for a couple of days and loved them, but if I can love another one of those speakers (and save a good chunk of money) then that would be preferable. But if I really love the PMC's more than the rest I will probably buy them. The RX2 is the most intriguing speaker on my list with the big driver. The Totem is the only floorstander on my list...it's there because from what others say it has the sound I am looking for.

Getting to hear all those in one store will be impossible. Paradigm are an RS brand, Totem are very limited distribution. We did have the rest in store but sold the DC6's off due to their price rise.

 

[JoelSim]

BigAir:

Well I'm pleased to say my local/known dealer has come up trumps and we are doing the deal - thank goodness for that.

Their first opening was a touch high, so I came clean with them and they have done me a great deal, including a good part exchange on my amp and some speaker cable I previously had from them.

All in all I am very pleased now!

Glad to hear both sides of the equation are happy.