Loyalty to a dealer - at what price??

[gpi]

floyd droid:
gpi:Try asking for price matching. Apart from that I don't understand the reason for this topic. Can't anyone make their own grown up decisions on here? )

No not really. I'm off to vienna this afternoon, by all accounts its pretty cold out there now. Should i pack my thermal long johns or risk it getting milder. Thoughts ?.

Women pack clothes, men pack gadgets.

 

[Alec]

gpi:floyd droid:

gpi:Try asking for price matching. Apart from that I don't understand the reason for this topic. Can't anyone make their own grown up decisions on here? )

No not really. I'm off to vienna this afternoon, by all accounts its pretty cold out there now. Should i pack my thermal long johns or risk it getting milder. Thoughts ?.

Women pack clothes, men pack gadgets.

Yeah, just pack a mobile and a laptop to cover your modesty. Mebe two laptops.

 

[Anonymous]

I lost my local dealer a few years ago - Superfi in Hanley, Stoke on Trent. I got great service, to the point where I was allowed to take kit home and demo it there, to see what I thought. You just can't buy that kind of service, so they were always my first point of call, and they would always offer me a discount too.

 

[Craig M.]

i'd feel very uneasy if i used a dealers demo facilities, and then went
elsewhere for the same products. it would depend on the amount of
discount and whether my dealer would budge on price. i wouldn't feel i
could show my face in my dealers afterwards, if i went elsewhere
though. certainly wouldn't feel i could ask for another demo at a
later date.

 

[Anonymous]

I think if you get superb service from a hifi dealer or be it brilliant service from any shop regardless what they sell I will always return even if the same product is cheaper elsewhere , and in defense of the dealer if they go out of their way to give great service to a potential customer and that customer goes else where that must leave a bad taste in the dealers mouth.

Me.. I`ve dealt with the same Hifi shop for nearly 30 years and wouldn`t dream of going else where (even though i could possibly get it cheaper else where) because if a problem arises I know I can go back because of my loyalty get it sorted out. I`ve never had a demo from the shop pressurising me to buy , have been lent equipment to try at home and have returned it without a sale involved.... what more could you want??

Sure if you want stuff cheaper . shop around but I`ve always maintained a policy of supporting my particular hifi dealer as I can always count on him to give me what I want , which far outways a cheaper deal else where..... which is brilliant customer service.

 

[Thaiman]

I hardly ever buy any Hifi from my local. I have narrow down to 3 or 4 dealers that I keep in touch and between them, they more or less covers all the Hifi brands that matters to me. They have been some dodgy one along the way and few of them that I wouldn't buy gears from even if they were selling them 10 per penny! A snobbish dealer in the town just outside of London (west) for example, if you don't have a right accent or drive a real nice cars then forget it, he is far too posh to have a deal with you

What they forget is they need us more than we need them!

 

[Frank Harvey]

One thing I don't think anyone's mentioned so far - if you have a familiar dealer, and a quote from somewhere else, who says the dealer has to match it? Surely with the level of service provided by the specialist dealer, that's worth something over and above the cheap quote from the dealer who has done nothing but pressed a few buttons on a calculator. Surely some sort of deal could be arranged where the dealer meets you somewhere in between.

Plus, those products you've hunted down a cheap price for, may not even be the right ones for you. If you don't mention this to your dealer and just buy them, you could be making a big mistake. Mentioning the price to the dealer and asking him if he can get close, will bring it to his attention, and because he knows you, might know straight away whether the system would be right for you, and more importantly, if it's completely the wrong thing.

 

[Anonymous]

Haha....fortunately (or unfortunately) I don't have this loyalty problem here in Malaysia because dealers here only supply 3 or, at most, 4 brands. So I can book a demo at a particular dealer for, say, roksan and atcs, and if I don't like the sound, I have no other choice but to look elsewhere to demo other brands because that dealer just don't carry other brands. Just trying to comfort myself for not being able to audition products of my choice together at the same time.

 

[Anonymous]

I am also upgrading speakers soon and considering around 7 different models. I'll have to visit 4-5 stores to audition them all, and of course will only buy from one of them. Even though I am of course totally justified in auditioning various models so that I can find the one speaker I really really want, I can't help but feel strange knowing that I'll be auditioning at several places and only buying from one of them. How will those dealers who don't sell me something know that I didn't just run out and buy the same speaker elsewhere? Or sometimes I feel that dealers must think certain customers only want to get a free listening session, with no intention of actually buying anything.

But I guess this is all just a fact of life for dealers. They know that they will set up demos and that most of them likely will not lead to a sale. I'm just going to be honest and say that I'm considering 7 different brands and it all depends on what I feel sounds best with my equipment and the kind of music I like to listen to.

 

[bigboss]

When I was looking around for a home cinema system earlier this year, I had no clue about what's what. For me, Bose was the ultimate in home cinema system. I found a dealer who was supplying Bose products locally. When I demoed the equipment, I was a bit underwhelmed by how Bose sounded. The other option he had was Dynaudio speakers with a Pioneer receiver only.

I then went to Sevenoaks Sound and Vision. The salesperson actually educated me about a home cinema system & gave me a demo. I was hugely impressed with what I heard. He spent more than 2 hours with me, patiently answering all my queries. I still had a couple of months before purchasing. So I decided to look around at more shops & online (because I wasn't comfortable with the idea of buying the first thing I heard).

When I finally decided on my system, I did find that I could save a lot more if I bought them online. I even was temped by the Pioneer deal at Sound and Vision show in Bristol. I kept emailing Sevenoaks every week or so, whenever I had any doubts, or discussing the deals I was offered at the show. The dealer sensed that I was looking around. He assured me of a good deal.

When we finally came to the decision point, my dealer actually matched the prices of all my equioment with the best online prices. I saved about £1000 overall. The dealer could offer me the discount, because I was buying the entire package including installation.

He couldn't match me the blu-ray player deal after a few months, so I bought it online. I never demoed it.

It's worth asking for discounts. Often, you'll end up with better discounts if you're a loyal customer & have good terms with your dealer.

 

[Anonymous]

I have worked in IT sales for 25 years, and dealt with very senior executives at some of the UK's biggest co.'s. There is no doubt that loyalty and service are extremely important, but only if certain other commercial conditions are met; and only if that loyalty and service can't be obtained elsewhere at better terms. You should never feel bad about not buying from a dealer. It's up to them to persuade you they are worth spending money with. You are in charge of the relationship.

My advice would be for any major purchase:

Do as much research as possible on the products that you're interested in BEFORE you do any auditions. This puts you in a position of strength when the dealer is making claims about equipment and service. For example, this is especially true where the warranty is concerned. Just because a manufacturer offers a warranty of say, one year, doesn't mean under law they aren't liable for it for many years more for example. On this basis what looks like service, (i.e. where a dealer "persuades" the manufacturer to repair an item a few days after the warranty runs out) is actually your legal right. They are not doing you a favour or providing any kind of service. The issue of the warranties offered by co.'s was all over the papers recently. Often manufacturers themselves are ignorant of their legal obligations to the consumer.

Decide in advance what your personal terms and conditions are for buying equipment. Price? Service? A combination of the two? What does service mean to you?

There is nothing wrong with doing a demo and not buying from the dealer. It happens all the time and is an occupational hazard. The demo is an opportunity for the dealer to establish their credentials with you, not the other way round.

If you have thought through your personal terms and conditions prior to attending the demo, you can explain to the dealer what you're looking for in terms of service. You should explain that you will be demoing elsewhere. You can explain that price and service will be key and that you will be looking for three quotes etc. If you don't tell the dealer your expectations, how will you know if they will cover them for you? How will they know what they need to do to get your business if you don't tell them?

Even if you have a longstanding relationship with a dealer, don't take it for granted that they continue to give you the best prices and service. Benchmark them against others when you make a purchase and then take into account any previous service they have given you.

Just my 2p's worth.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Just a quick addtion to this. One of main things we provide is the ability to assemble a system that is right for a customer based on their preferences. It is all very well to say pick your products beforehand but a great many people do not no where to start hence the need for specialist service.

Not to take the thread off course but all warranties are the responsibility of the retailer and not the manufacturer.

 

[Anonymous]

TheHomeCinemaCentre:

Just a quick addtion to this. One of main things we provide is the ability to assemble a system that is right for a customer based on their preferences. It is all very well to say pick your products beforehand but a great many people do not no where to start hence the need for specialist service.

Not to take the thread off course but all warranties are the responsibility of the retailer and not the manufacturer.

Reference the warranties. Indeed, you are right, warranties are the responsibility of the retailer. Does this mean that in dealing with warranty queries you make all decisions on the spot and without referring to the manufacturer? My experience is that the vast majority of retailers of all types will only refund/exchange/replace after the goods have been inspected by the manufacturer. This is so that the retailer can claim a credit from the supplier. This is a frustrating and annoying experience for the buyer. Of course it is not true in the case of obvious malfunctions, e.g. the kit doesn't power up and the plug fuse is OK.

With regards to the assembling of systems from disparate components, this is of course subject to the brands stocked by the seller. Let's say you don't stock a particular brand of amp. Even if you heard it and it was better than what you had in store, I would find it highly unlikely that you would refer all your customers for amps to your competitor down the raod. There is no such thing as an independent specialist, they are all limited by the brands they stock, or have access to.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Fusion: I am also upgrading speakers soon and considering around 7 different models. I'll have to visit 4-5 stores to audition them all, and of course will only buy from one of them. Which brands were you thinking of?

 

[matthewpiano]

This sits on a very fine line from my perspective. I think anybody who takes up a retailer's time seeking advice and demonstration and then walks out and buys at the cheapest price they can find, and without taking the service provided into account, is out of order.

However, I also think that retailers do need to display an element of flexibility. I often find myself spending time with a customer only to have an internet price thrown at me that, against our buy-in price, would represent a loss or only just breaking even. Clearly I cannot match that price. Doing business at break even is pointless. However, I normally find that if I meet the customer somewhere in between and remind them of the service they have already had and the after sales service we offer, they tend to go for the deal.

As for warranty, yes it is the responsibility of the retailer the product was originally purchased from, but the way in which that warranty is administered will usually be governed by the manufacturer's policies and, of course, retail law.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Cable Lover:Reference the warranties. Indeed, you are right, warranties are the responsibility of the retailer. Does this mean that in dealing with warranty queries you make all decisions on the spot and without referring to the manufacturer? My experience is that the vast majority of retailers of all types will only refund/exchange/replace after the goods have been inspected by the manufacturer. This is so that the retailer can claim a credit from the supplier. This is a frustrating and annoying experience for the buyer. Of course it is not true in the case of obvious malfunctions, e.g. the kit doesn't power up and the plug fuse is OK.The problem is that specialist dealers aren't huge companies like Argos or Dixons. These companies just swap over for the hell of it, because they know faulty items can be repaired and, well, enough said about that. A small independent retailer runs on a fraction of the turnover/profit than these companies, so it's nice for the retailer to know that when taking in a faulty product that they are guaranteed to get a credit from the manufacturer, which means they can give out a replacement to the customer with a smil on their face. Unfortunately this isn't the case. Some manufacturers are extremely hard to deal with in these matters, and insist on inspection of the unit before issuing a credit note or replacement. If a company takes your unit back with a smile on their face, rest assured it'll eventually end up in somebody elses living room in the near future. If they follow the usual procedure of inspection first, it's because they're worried they'll be stuck with a unit they'll have to pay for the repair of, or have to write it off stock and lose money.

And let's not forget that not every repair that comes back, even in the first week, has broken down naturally, or died of it's own accord......

With regards to the assembling of systems from disparate components, this is of course subject to the brands stocked by the seller. Let's say you don't stock a particular brand of amp. Even if you heard it and it was better than what you had in store, I would find it highly unlikely that you would refer all your customers for amps to your competitor down the raod. There is no such thing as an independent specialist, they are all limited by the brands they stock, or have access tbviously a retailer is only going to recommend what they deal with, but the retailer will still be a 'specialist' in relation to the products they keep, and how well they marry up with the speakers they keep also. If what you say is true, then the retailer with the widest range on the shop floor should be the most popular and busiest dealer around then?

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:This sits on a very fine line from my perspective. I think anybody who takes up a retailer's time seeking advice and demonstration and then walks out and buys at the cheapest price they can find, and without taking the service provided into account, is out of order. However, I also think that retailers do need to display an element of flexibility. I often find myself spending time with a customer only to have an internet price thrown at me that, against our buy-in price, would represent a loss or only just breaking even. Clearly I cannot match that price. Doing business at break even is pointless. However, I normally find that if I meet the customer somewhere in between and remind them of the service they have already had and the after sales service we offer, they tend to go for the deal. As for warranty, yes it is the responsibility of the retailer the product was originally purchased from, but the way in which that warranty is administered will usually be governed by the manufacturer's policies and, of course, retail law.

I agree with most of what you say. I don't agree with the bit about your time being wasted. If, in your case, customers can get the same Sony products on line at way cheaper prices, you should be blaming Sony for the business model they operate, or the law that allows consumers to get the best deals possible without the market being artificially skewed to prevent this. I am sure Sony try and support their brick and mortar retailers, but if you are unable to persuade customers of your charms, then you're a bit stuffed!

 

[matengawhat]

I agree your turnover will not be like that of Argos but you still make a good % profit on items although sure some manufacturers are prob better than others. My personal experience says that you still make a fair amount of money - one large manufacturer no names mentioned but that you stock used to offer (not sure if still do) an extra 10% discount off invoice if paid within 7 or 14 days can't rem which but on high end items that was a nice breathing space plus then the rrp mark up on top of that so always some negotiation surely???

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

Cable Lover:Reference the warranties. Indeed, you are right, warranties are the responsibility of the retailer. Does this mean that in dealing with warranty queries you make all decisions on the spot and without referring to the manufacturer? My experience is that the vast majority of retailers of all types will only refund/exchange/replace after the goods have been inspected by the manufacturer. This is so that the retailer can claim a credit from the supplier. This is a frustrating and annoying experience for the buyer. Of course it is not true in the case of obvious malfunctions, e.g. the kit doesn't power up and the plug fuse is OK.The problem is that specialist dealers aren't huge companies like Argos or Dixons. These companies just swap over for the hell of it, because they know faulty items can be repaired and, well, enough said about that. A small independent retailer runs on a fraction of the turnover/profit than these companies, so it's nice for the retailer to know that when taking in a faulty product that they are guaranteed to get a credit from the manufacturer, which means they can give out a replacement to the customer with a smil on their face. Unfortunately this isn't the case. Some manufacturers are extremely hard to deal with in these matters, and insist on inspection of the unit before issuing a credit note or replacement. If a company takes your unit back with a smile on their face, rest assured it'll eventually end up in somebody elses living room in the near future. If they follow the usual procedure of inspection first, it's because they're worried they'll be stuck with a unit they'll have to pay for the repair of, or have to write it off stock and lose money.

And let's not forget that not every repair that comes back, even in the first week, has broken down naturally, or died of it's own accord......

With regards to the assembling of systems from disparate components, this is of course subject to the brands stocked by the seller. Let's say you don't stock a particular brand of amp. Even if you heard it and it was better than what you had in store, I would find it highly unlikely that you would refer all your customers for amps to your competitor down the raod. There is no such thing as an independent specialist, they are all limited by the brands they stock, or have access tbviously a retailer is only going to recommend what they deal with, but the retailer will still be a 'specialist' in relation to the products they keep, and how well they marry up with the speakers they keep also. If what you say is true, then the retailer with the widest range on the shop floor should be the most popular and busiest dealer around then?

I have no idea whether the retailer with the widest range is the busiest, however, I do note that Curry's and Dixons have consistently full car parks on a week-end. I'm only interested in getting the best bang for the buck for myself. Of course, the dealer's attitude is important. However, I am upfront from the start about my buying criteria so as not to waste anyone's time. I am clear about how much I have to spend and the fact that I will be looking at other dealers and other brands. If a dealer wants to audition a more expensive piece of kit, that's fine, but I am clear that my budget won't change. They can discount if they want..... Before booking a demo, do you ask the customer if they have a budget for the kit and what it is they want to achieve? If you are demo'ing to people with no budget and no idea, what is the conversion rate? I'm going to assume it's not high.

 

[matthewpiano]

Cable Lover:
matthewpiano:This sits on a very fine line from my perspective. I think anybody who takes up a retailer's time seeking advice and demonstration and then walks out and buys at the cheapest price they can find, and without taking the service provided into account, is out of order. However, I also think that retailers do need to display an element of flexibility. I often find myself spending time with a customer only to have an internet price thrown at me that, against our buy-in price, would represent a loss or only just breaking even. Clearly I cannot match that price. Doing business at break even is pointless. However, I normally find that if I meet the customer somewhere in between and remind them of the service they have already had and the after sales service we offer, they tend to go for the deal. As for warranty, yes it is the responsibility of the retailer the product was originally purchased from, but the way in which that warranty is administered will usually be governed by the manufacturer's policies and, of course, retail law.

I agree with most of what you say. I don't agree with the bit about your time being wasted. If, in your case, customers can get the same Sony products on line at way cheaper prices, you should be blaming Sony for the business model they operate, or the law that allows consumers to get the best deals possible without the market being artificially skewed to prevent this. I am sure Sony try and support their brick and mortar retailers, but if you are unable to persuade customers of your charms, then you're a bit stuffed!

Its not quite as simple as that and its not Sony's fault. They don't owe their retailers a living. I know for a fact that there are retailers out there who regularly sell TVs at or below what they have paid the manufacturer for them. Its a crazy business model and doesn't offer anyone long term security - the business is unlikely to survive long-term and so the staff end up out of work and the customers end up with noone to go back to.

The reason why we do well is because we usually can persuade customers of our charms and we get a lot of repeat business or new customers that have come from recommendations. To me, that is the only way to build for the long term.

 

[matthewpiano]

matengawhat:
I agree your turnover will not be like that of Argos but you still make a good % profit on items although sure some manufacturers are prob better than others. My personal experience says that you still make a fair amount of money - one large manufacturer no names mentioned but that you stock used to offer (not sure if still do) an extra 10% discount off invoice if paid within 7 or 14 days can't rem which but on high end items that was a nice breathing space plus then the rrp mark up on top of that so always some negotiation surely???

Margins aren't as universally big in this industry as people seem to believe. Compare it to margins in clothing and jewellery, for example, and the amount of profit anyone makes on real world hi-fi and AV kit is actually relatively small. Achieving those margins also usually involves a lot of hard work. Its much harder maintaining a business achieving those margins through high standards of customer service than it is being a box shifter who only deals in being the cheapest, but the benefits are there for both retailer and customer alike if people understand the concept of VALUE over PRICE.

 

[The_Lhc]

matthewpiano:but the benefits are there for both retailer and customer alike if people understand the concept of VALUE over PRICE.

Oh tell me about it! I won't go shopping for electronics with my missus and her mum any more, we were looking for a midi system for her boy a few years back, wandering around Curries her mum spots some rubbish thing for 20 quid, "'ere! This one's good value!", "No", says I, "it's cheap, that's not the same thing." and proved it by sticking a CD in (had one in my pocket...) and demonstrating the awesome power of its....1.5 Watts... it was shockingly bad! Got him a Sony system in the end, he's still using it, so it can't be too bad (he's a fussy ******...).

 

[Anonymous]

From the late 80's till now I have always shopped at a certain Glasgow Hi Fi shop. It's fair to say I have spent quite a lot in that time scale. However this was a shop that went the extra mile to make you happy. Sadly a new owner came in and sacked all the staff. Recently I gave the shop a call to put a new needle on my turntable. I took the turntable up and within 10 min my turntable was ready with the new needle. Cost , needle £250.00 , fitting £45.00 total = £295.00. I was shocked to pay an extra £45.00 as I have never been charged that before so I wont be back. Some might say why not fit the needle yourself. Well the needle has to be unscrewed a new one put on and set up right. Am I wrong in feeling angry at paying £45.00 for 10min fitment ?

 

[Anonymous]

gpi:Sorry about my course (coarse, even ) tone BigAir but another opinion I have on this topic is because your usual dealer is very familiar to you, surely you would know his prices BEFORE arranging the demo. Or did you go in blindfolded, listen to the gear, make a purchasing decision and then say 'How much? Oh.'

Yes I knew what 'list' price is obviously ....... but there was no way I expected to pay full list price - so the question becomes how much discount is going to be given. I have never spent this much before and clearly want to maximise my purchasing power. A small % on a large purchase can make a very worth-while saving that can either be saved, or used to even get the next item up the range .....

My local dealer has not previously given huge discounts, but then again I've never bought at this level before - and my expectations are different. The 'other dealer' quoted me a 15% discount which is a large sum on money for me to save.

 

[Alec]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

the retailer with the widest range on the shop floor should be the most popular and busiest dealer around then?

Makes sense to me. You're presenting the very best case scenario with smaller dealers. If hety only stock a small range then they should be highly knowledgeable of that range. However: 1; theyre not always, 2; a small range is a small range. I certainly wouldnt go to one dealer with a very small range and say "ok, i can have whatever i like as long as its budget kef or monitor audio stuff".*

*Just for instance, so dont start