CJSF said:
Agreed not ideal but were free and considerably better than sideboard.
The top plates on mine are completely flat however with no holes or joining points. Those on ebay look like the top plates have been drilled out!!! Bizarre.
Agreed not ideal but were free and considerably better than sideboard.
The top plates on mine are completely flat however with no holes or joining points. Those on ebay look like the top plates have been drilled out!!! Bizarre.
CJSF,
I think now is the time for a put up or shut up situation?
If you have somehow managed to overcome or alter the laws of physics, or perhaps I am wrong in the assumption that mass counters vibration, perhaps you could enlighten me/us?
I am less than interested in your comments if they have no worth and if you have nothing more than an 'I know the answer, but I'm not telling' attitude, perhaps it is best to drop the portcullis too and release the crocs into the moat.
So what's it to be?
I think now is the time for a put up or shut up situation?
If you have somehow managed to overcome or alter the laws of physics, or perhaps I am wrong in the assumption that mass counters vibration, perhaps you could enlighten me/us?
I am less than interested in your comments if they have no worth and if you have nothing more than an 'I know the answer, but I'm not telling' attitude, perhaps it is best to drop the portcullis too and release the crocs into the moat.
So what's it to be?
Overdose said:
Against my better judgment . . . :
I 'put up' for many, many years, I demonstrated the differences, I sold thousands of stands. I've been off the scene for 20 years, my work has been lost to the general public and 'new'? . . . alternatives have been offered, either a simple 'mass it to death' way . . . or a complex light option that works very well for 'some' speakers?
You are right in your assumptions about physics, cant change that. However the words 'finesse, understanding and manipulation' do not sit well with the likes of 'concrete blocks'.
Thats as far as I'm prepared to go, the black art of filling a speaker stand properly so it works is worth money?, so I'll shut up . . . :?
chebby
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- Jun 2, 2008
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Some of CJSF's thoughts on stand design can be found here (I believe these are CJSF's own words)...
http://www.foundationaudio.ca/html/technology.htm
And a bit of background here...
http://www.foundationaudio.ca/html/aboutus.htm
His FBA award (1985) for the Foundation stands listed here...
http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/July%201985/97/773766/FBA+Awards
And these instructions are generally useful too (regarding care in positioning and the use of Blu-Tack)...
http://www.foundationaudio.ca/doc/Stands_user_guide.pdf
http://www.foundationaudio.ca/html/technology.htm
And a bit of background here...
http://www.foundationaudio.ca/html/aboutus.htm
His FBA award (1985) for the Foundation stands listed here...
http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/July%201985/97/773766/FBA+Awards
And these instructions are generally useful too (regarding care in positioning and the use of Blu-Tack)...
http://www.foundationaudio.ca/doc/Stands_user_guide.pdf
chebby said:
The infomation from Foudation Audio Canada, is incorect. They never paid the full amount agreed, I never modified the Foundation stand . . . so anything they produce under my name does not have my approval.
CJSF
I heard so much about this Foundation speaker stands that i will love to see them, any photos or links?
For balance, some links of my own....
http://www.rdhworld.myzen.co.uk/smfcu/index.php?topic=7158.0
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/the-british-federation-of-audio
To CJSF, If an award was given by a truly professional body, then I would be more inclined to aquiesce to your viewpoint, as it stands (pun intended) it wasn't.
In addition, the only speaker 'stand' that has made any difference to my speakers to my knowledge, was a couple of cardboard boxes, even then, the extra noise came from the boxes and not the speakers.
I will wholeheartedly accept that some people will like speaker stands for the aesthetics, but to suggest that dedicated and specifically designed stands affect speaker sound quality is a stretch too far for my imagination, but then it's not my money being spent.
Edit: Shouldn't this be in the accessories section anyhow?
http://www.rdhworld.myzen.co.uk/smfcu/index.php?topic=7158.0
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/the-british-federation-of-audio
To CJSF, If an award was given by a truly professional body, then I would be more inclined to aquiesce to your viewpoint, as it stands (pun intended) it wasn't.
In addition, the only speaker 'stand' that has made any difference to my speakers to my knowledge, was a couple of cardboard boxes, even then, the extra noise came from the boxes and not the speakers.
I will wholeheartedly accept that some people will like speaker stands for the aesthetics, but to suggest that dedicated and specifically designed stands affect speaker sound quality is a stretch too far for my imagination, but then it's not my money being spent.
Edit: Shouldn't this be in the accessories section anyhow?
Frank Harvey
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- Jun 27, 2008
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So you're saying that any old crap under a speaker will be good enough? And that something designed for the job won't make any difference?
I was referring to the differences between speakers stands as designed, but yes, no speaker stand will be better than a solid, dense mass, such as a block of cement, with regards to sound quality. It is a nonsense and a fallacy to suggest otherwise.
I am talking about rather small margins here though and more in terms of absolutes, such is the very small difference that would be noticeable if at all, between stands.
Therefore, my opinion, would be to buy a suitably rigid, stable and aesthetically pleasing stand and be happy that your speaker won't fall off or over, that's it. FWIW, I rate such accessories as highly as cables and other such nonsense (and I have tried a multitude of those too).
I think I've said all that needs to be said or known on the subject, Nite!
I am talking about rather small margins here though and more in terms of absolutes, such is the very small difference that would be noticeable if at all, between stands.
Therefore, my opinion, would be to buy a suitably rigid, stable and aesthetically pleasing stand and be happy that your speaker won't fall off or over, that's it. FWIW, I rate such accessories as highly as cables and other such nonsense (and I have tried a multitude of those too).
I think I've said all that needs to be said or known on the subject, Nite!
Frank Harvey
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- Jun 27, 2008
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Frank Harvey
Well-known member
- Jun 27, 2008
- 567
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- 18,890
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
- Jun 27, 2008
- 567
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If you are not interested, then do not reply to, or read the thread. It's really quite simple.
Unfortunately, I can only usually reply in the evenings and pms are not allowed, so that I cannot further discuss this with Frank without boring you.
I do not believe that speaker stands can effect the sound quality of a speaker directly and the only 'expert' on the subject seems unable to explain how and why they do. FrankHarvey was about to explain how, in his view, a particular type of stsnd effects a particular speaker. Nail biting stuff I know, but if you could just hang in there, the end is nigh (hopefully).
Unfortunately, I can only usually reply in the evenings and pms are not allowed, so that I cannot further discuss this with Frank without boring you.
I do not believe that speaker stands can effect the sound quality of a speaker directly and the only 'expert' on the subject seems unable to explain how and why they do. FrankHarvey was about to explain how, in his view, a particular type of stsnd effects a particular speaker. Nail biting stuff I know, but if you could just hang in there, the end is nigh (hopefully).
Frank Harvey
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- Jun 27, 2008
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As I've already mentioned, I have found that some speakers just work better on lighter stands than heavy ones. I don't know why, they just did. The bass of some speakers just seem to sound plummy and ill defined when using high mass stands.
You say you do not believe they can make a difference - have you tried it, or is this just conjecture on your part?
And the name is David, as mentioned in my signature.
You say you do not believe they can make a difference - have you tried it, or is this just conjecture on your part?
And the name is David, as mentioned in my signature.
I agree with Overdose.
Any speaker that sounds better on a lightweight stand rather than pinned to a heavy immovable one, is either poorly designed or designed for a specific stand (imo).
I'd also love to hear any rational explanation why that should not be the case and would be willing to alter my view accordingly. The link provided earlier was laughable... Using "molten lead" the mids and highs became more clear...yep. A solid, immovable lump...
Any speaker that sounds better on a lightweight stand rather than pinned to a heavy immovable one, is either poorly designed or designed for a specific stand (imo).
I'd also love to hear any rational explanation why that should not be the case and would be willing to alter my view accordingly. The link provided earlier was laughable... Using "molten lead" the mids and highs became more clear...yep. A solid, immovable lump...
IMO. Different stands make a difference, and I believe it's to do with their vibrational damping and isolation characteristics.
I see the stand and speaker as one ie. when you attach a speaker to a stand, it introduces a tied relationship that carries the mechanical vibration to the stand and beyond. Different materials have different effects....it's probably pure physics, but don't ask me to explain it.
I see the stand and speaker as one ie. when you attach a speaker to a stand, it introduces a tied relationship that carries the mechanical vibration to the stand and beyond. Different materials have different effects....it's probably pure physics, but don't ask me to explain it.
Frank Harvey
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fr0g said:
A stand, first and formeost, has to be inflexible. This is more important than it's mass. A flexible high mass stands would be useless.
There is no difference whatsoever between a low mass rigid stand coupled to a concrete floor and a high mass stand on a concrete floor, as the concrete provides the mass for damping. It is very basic stuff as far as phiysics is concerned.
If you are placing the speakers/stands on suspended flooring, then higher mass stands are more beneficial in damping transmitted vibrations. The higher the mass, the better the effect. I have tried with several types of stand,including a pair of wicker chairs and there is no difference whatsoever in the sound coming from the speakers. With suspended floors, vibrations will however, transfer to the floor and beyond, the mass of the stand will mitigate this to some extent, but the effect is difficult to eradicate without mass.
If you are placing the speakers/stands on suspended flooring, then higher mass stands are more beneficial in damping transmitted vibrations. The higher the mass, the better the effect. I have tried with several types of stand,including a pair of wicker chairs and there is no difference whatsoever in the sound coming from the speakers. With suspended floors, vibrations will however, transfer to the floor and beyond, the mass of the stand will mitigate this to some extent, but the effect is difficult to eradicate without mass.
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