Low mass vs high mass speaker stands

bigmoose

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Hello experts,

Not sure if that's because I'm currently looking at getting new speaker stands but, doesn't look like there is a current trend towards Low mass speaker stands (Like Quadraspire, or Something Solid XF)?

Does anyone have a view on benefits about low mass vs high mass speaker? Low mass seem to be quite popular with classic speakers like Harbeth, and claim the same benefits as high mass (ie-tighter bass, extended treble). Surely, how can low & high mass bring the same benefits... :?

Has anyone tried both? Thanks for your help! :p
 

chebby

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High mass is the mechanical equivalent of bringing the floor up to the speaker base (assuming the floor itself is solid) like a concrete or masonry pillar but without all the surface area of a pillar to mess up the imaging.

On a supended wooden floor i would be tempted to use a spiked, rigid, open, but lightweight structure - with no cavities - to lose energy fast with no 'ringing' (and thus no need for heavy fillings either) like the XFs.

(Or wall supports if the design of the speaker is compatible with being close to a wall.)
 

CJSF

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bigmoose said:
Hello experts,

Not sure if that's because I'm currently looking at getting new speaker stands but, doesn't look like there is a current trend towards Low mass speaker stands (Like Quadraspire, or Something Solid XF)?

Does anyone have a view on benefits about low mass vs high mass speaker? Low mass seem to be quite popular with classic speakers like Harbeth, and claim the same benefits as high mass (ie-tighter bass, extended treble). Surely, how can low & high mass bring the same benefits... :?

Has anyone tried both? Thanks for your help! :p

Wouldn’t I like to get into this one . . . however, I will resist, watching with amusement and interest . . . :?
 

chebby

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CJSF said:
bigmoose said:
Hello experts,

Not sure if that's because I'm currently looking at getting new speaker stands but, doesn't look like there is a current trend towards Low mass speaker stands (Like Quadraspire, or Something Solid XF)?

Does anyone have a view on benefits about low mass vs high mass speaker? Low mass seem to be quite popular with classic speakers like Harbeth, and claim the same benefits as high mass (ie-tighter bass, extended treble). Surely, how can low & high mass bring the same benefits... :?

Has anyone tried both? Thanks for your help! :p

Wouldn’t I like to get into this one . . . however, I will resist, watching with amusement and interest . . . :?
Bigmoose, you should convince CJSF to give advice on this.

He used to design and manufacture the award winning Foundation Audio stands so IS 'the expert' you asked for in your question.
 

CnoEvil

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CJSF said:
Bigmoose, see my coment in the, 'Partington Speaker Stand' thread, think about it carfully . . .

CJ, I for one, would like more detailed insight into - light vs heavy; what works best with what type of speaker/floor construction; how mass loading effects the sound and what material is best used; importance of isolation; coupling vs decoupling; how different construction materials effect the sound (advantages/disadvantages).

I agree with Chebby - If there is an expert on board, you might as well try your luck!

Cno
 

Frank Harvey

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There used to be dedicated stands for speakers like the Epos ES11 and ES14, as well as some other speakers of that era (early 90's). The stands were relatively slim square cross section, of the four legged variety, with a large footprint with open top plates, so while lightweight they were very sturdy, which I think is more important. These worked really well with some speakers, like the Celestion 5/7/9 range of the time - they sounded muddy on high mass stands.

Its a case of experimentation to see what suits your speakers, and taste really.
 

CJSF

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CnoEvil said:
CJSF said:
Bigmoose, see my coment in the, 'Partington Speaker Stand' thread, think about it carfully . . .

CJ, I for one, would like more detailed insight into - light vs heavy; what works best with what type of speaker/floor construction; how mass loading effects the sound and what material is best used; importance of isolation; coupling vs decoupling; how different construction materials effect the sound (advantages/disadvantages).

I agree with Chebby - If there is an expert on board, you might as well try your luck!

Cno

Sorry Cno, 'try my luck?' . . . after the 'troll type mauling’ I have experienced over the past few months, the only comments I am making these days are bland in the extreme, I've had enough, keep my ideas and experiences to myself.

However, I have made a comment on the 'Partington stand' thread, that, if thought about, gives some guidance. The comments that David, 'Frank Harvey' makes over lightly constructed stand is relevant and true to some 'speaker/stand combinations', Harberths were/are? particularly sensitive, preferring light construction stands.

As I say, head down, draw bridge up.

CJSF
 

CnoEvil

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CJSF said:
Sorry Cno, 'try my luck?' . . . after the 'troll type mauling’ I have experienced over the past few months, the only comments I am making these days are bland in the extreme, I've had enough, keep my ideas and experiences to myself.

However, I have made a comment on the 'Partington stand' thread, that, if thought about, gives some guidance. The comments that David, 'Frank Harvey' makes over lightly constructed stand is relevant and true to some 'speaker/stand combinations', Harberths were/are? particularly sensitive, preferring light construction stands.

As I say, head down, draw bridge up.

CJSF

You clearly enjoy being on here, so it's a shame that this is your response (especially in your area of expertise)....as far as I'm aware, I have shown you nothing but courtesy, respect and understanding.
 

Inter_Voice

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Using light or high mass speaker stands IMO depend on the type of speaker you are using. Most speakers sound better with heavyily mass stands while some designs, like Spendor SA-1, uses very lightly weighed stock stands (non metallic stands). There is no hard and fast answer and you need to trial it out yourself.
 

CJSF

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CnoEvil said:
CJSF said:
Sorry Cno, 'try my luck?' . . . after the 'troll type mauling’ I have experienced over the past few months, the only comments I am making these days are bland in the extreme, I've had enough, keep my ideas and experiences to myself.

However, I have made a comment on the 'Partington stand' thread, that, if thought about, gives some guidance. The comments that David, 'Frank Harvey' makes over lightly constructed stand is relevant and true to some 'speaker/stand combinations', Harberths were/are? particularly sensitive, preferring light construction stands.

As I say, head down, draw bridge up.

CJSF

You clearly enjoy being on here, so it's a shame that this is your response (especially in your area of expertise)....as far as I'm aware, I have shown you nothing but courtesy, respect and understanding.

Sorry Cno, apologies, not a personal dig at you, you have been a friend and courteous at all times. I do enjoy my hifi and music, preferring the memories and sounds of the 80's from a hifi point of view. One will continue to be on the side ‘watching’ . . . I might add my two penith? but it will be very low key.

CJSF
 

bigmoose

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Hi Chebby,

This is a very interesting comment and makes total sense. The floors are made suspended of wood - No concrete - Which would point to Low Mass stands.

Since the Low Mass stands are custom, I have no option to try before I buy - I can just take a lead of faith. :pray:

Thanks.
 

bigmoose

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Hi David,

Those are the Something Solid XF stands, and they look extremely similar to the ones that go with the Epos ES11:

http://www.signals.uk.com/somethingsolidat.html

I'm planning on putting these under Tannoy DC8 speaker which are quite large and heavy.

The unusual shape of the speaker pushed me toward custom stands, and I can get something that would exactely fit the base of speakers. Unfortunately, trying is not an option.

In the end, I decided to take a leap of faith and ordered Something Solid XF stands - It will take 3 weeks to make. I can't wait already!

Thanks.
 

Overdose

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The most important aspect of any speaker stand is its rigidity and stability, more mass increases damping and will actually help prevent transmission of resonant frequencies to the sourrounding structure.

Much more is made of speaker stand design than needs to be, so providing the first criteria are met, I'd go with what you like the look of the most.

Furniture can be perfect for the job, but may also resonate and cause problems.
 

bigmoose

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Hello,

The speakers are currently sitting on a large sideboard that resonates a fair amount - Worse, the Tannoy DC8s are sitting too close to the wall which greatly affects the bass.

Main attraction for the custom stands is they can actually create a shape that exactly match the base of the speaker, instead of the usual rectangle plate that only covers part of the base. Hopefully, this means I take full benefits of the stands characteristics... But then, maybe it doesn't matter at all!

I suspect I will see the main benefit as being related to the distance from the walls. Also, the Something Solid XFs look great IMHO, so I'll be happy anyway... :rofl:
 

bigmoose

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Hi CJSF,

Just read your comment, and I guess it fits with what theSomethingSolid XF is about. The speakers connect through 4 points on the stand, which correspond to the legs of the speakers and therefore "link" the speakers to the floor. This is why the dealer said the points were the speakers rest need to have legs underneath.

Tbh, the dealer could tell me it's made by little fairies, I would believe it... But it's reassuring it seem to conform with what you say (as far as I understand it).
 

CJSF

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bigmoose said:
Hi CJSF,

Just read your comment, and I guess it fits with what theSomethingSolid XF is about. The speakers connect through 4 points on the stand, which correspond to the legs of the speakers and therefore "link" the speakers to the floor. This is why the dealer said the points were the speakers rest need to have legs underneath.

Tbh, the dealer could tell me it's made by little fairies, I would believe it... But it's reassuring it seem to conform with what you say (as far as I understand it).

With many speakers, there are distinct advantages to 'mass damping/loading', however the process has to be understood . . . no one does . . . or did, apart from me? . . . Arrogant, not really considering the number of quality shops and speaker manufacturers that demonstrated product using Foundation stands and the industry award received in 1985.

Ho-hum, a lost option I'm afraid, hence the move to 'light' stands or the airy-fairy view, 'makes no difference', I would suggest it is actually; 'cant be bothered so dont want it to make any difference?'. Plus the fact that 'some' speakers do react quite well to unfilled or the light approach . . . which leads to the ‘generalisation’ of light structures are OK.

My personal view, might provoke a reaction which certainly won’t get a response from me.
 

Frank Harvey

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CJSF said:
With many speakers, there are distinct advantages to 'mass damping/loading', however the process has to be understood . . . no one does . . . or did, apart from me? . . . Arrogant, not really considering the number of quality shops and speaker manufacturers that demonstrated product using Foundation stands and the industry award received in 1985.

Well rather than coming across as arrogant, why not share and educate if you know you are right. Everyone can disagree with you, but if you know you are right, you can rise above that. If one person learns something, its worth it.
 

Ambrose

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bigmoose said:
Hi David,

Those are the Something Solid XF stands, and they look extremely similar to the ones that go with the Epos ES11:

http://www.signals.uk.com/somethingsolidat.html

I'm planning on putting these under Tannoy DC8 speaker which are quite large and heavy.

The unusual shape of the speaker pushed me toward custom stands, and I can get something that would exactely fit the base of speakers. Unfortunately, trying is not an option.

In the end, I decided to take a leap of faith and ordered Something Solid XF stands - It will take 3 weeks to make. I can't wait already!

Thanks.

Too late now but.......

Just my thoughts, I have some old very heavy (7kg each) Apollo stands from friend with 2 poles and solid bottom & top base plate as was previously also listening to speakers on sideboard.

I borrowed something solid stands from Signals to see what other stands could do as these were recommended for my speaker. Note these were not exact size for my Neat speakers. My conclusion was that the XF were faster and more agile and almost like speakers were wearing glasses so that sound became more focused. Hence more realism in voices & sounds.

This is very nice quality, however with my setup did come at expense of solidity and bass weight which were more important to me in the end. Also soundstage perhaps better with Apollo's?

I will keep Apollo stands for now and maybe try Partington Super Dreads in the future.

I can see the appeal of XF however and apart from many factors mentioned that affect sound, it is also type of music and personal preferences which really influenced my choice I would say.

Please do share feedback once you have settled them in.
 

Frank Harvey

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The Apollo A2 stands are budget stands, so aren't going to be the best. There will be side to side movement because of their construction. Anything using a larger single column or three columns or more will be more stable, as well as 'frame stands', which I believe are under discussion here.
 

Ambrose

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FrankHarveyHiFi said:
The Apollo A2 stands are budget stands, so aren't going to be the best. There will be side to side movement because of their construction. Anything using a larger single column or three columns or more will be more stable, as well as 'frame stands', which I believe are under discussion here.

Hi, the Apollo stands are not A2 and not in production now. Same as these on ebay up for £25 except that the top plate has been drilled on these!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apollo-Speaker-Stands-/160816995918?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item2571709e4e

Not sure model etc.

Anyone recognise / comment were these good in their day?
 

CJSF

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Ambrose said:
FrankHarveyHiFi said:
The Apollo A2 stands are budget stands, so aren't going to be the best. There will be side to side movement because of their construction. Anything using a larger single column or three columns or more will be more stable, as well as 'frame stands', which I believe are under discussion here.

Hi, the Apollo stands are not A2 and not in production now. Same as these on ebay up for £25 except that the top plate has been drilled on these!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apollo-Speaker-Stands-/160816995918?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item2571709e4e

Not sure model etc.

Anyone recognise / comment were these good in their day?

Very poor quality finish and the construction looks non to special as far as I can see?
 

CJSF

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As I said, I would not react. I will keep my expertise to myself thanks Dave, there is a saying about 'pearls . . .'?

By the way, Frank Haveys used to sell a lot of Foundation Stands back in the good old days.
 

Overdose

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I really don't see what all the fuss is about (perhaps I don't understand either), but in basic terms, you have a vibrating box that needs to be put somewhere that stops that vibration from transmitting into the surrounding structure of the house and also stops the box from moving about.

The solution is something rigid and dense that will absorb the vibrations and firmly support said vibrating box. As far as function goes, concrete blocks will suffice, but you might want something less 'industrial' looking. The heavier supports could be dispensed with if the flooring is concrete, as that is where the vibrations will stop.

There is no magic, just physics at play here.
 

CJSF

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Overdose said:
I really don't see what all the fuss is about (perhaps I don't understand either), but in basic terms, you have a vibrating box that needs to be put somewhere that stops that vibration from transmitting into the surrounding structure of the house and also stops the box from moving about.

The solution is something rigid and dense that will absorb the vibrations and firmly support said vibrating box. As far as function goes, concrete blocks will suffice, but you might want something less 'industrial' looking. The heavier supports could be dispensed with if the flooring is concrete, as that is where the vibrations will stop.

There is no magic, just physics at play here.

. . . :wall: Exactly why I dont bother . . . Plus the 'troll element' woud keep stiring the pudding . . . :O its draw bridge time again!
 

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