KEF LS50 disappointment :(

[Vladimir]

John Darko, TONE and 6moons, not the place where you go to read objective reviews accompanied by measurements. They hear sonic improvements from rocks and empty wood boxes, as long as you pay well.

 

[shkumar4963]

John Darko, TONE and 6moons, not the place where you go to read objective reviews accompanied by measurements. They hear sonic improvements from rocks and empty wood boxes, as long as you pay well.

What reviewers do you trust?

And on a lighter note, i love your links but sometime find it difficult to find connection with your comments.

 

[Vladimir]

What reviewers do you trust?

Those that give me objective information and leave the subjective experience to me. For an example here is a Julian Hirsch's review of an amp that I used to own, the HK6900.

And on a lighter note, i love your links but sometime find it difficult to find connection with your comments.

Which links in particular? *scratch_one-s_head* The ones in my signature or in my posts?

 

[steve_1979]

That new Foo Fighters track 'Something From Nothing' is fantastic!

 

[hg]

What reviewers do you trust?

I would trust a reviewer that was an expert in the subject of the review and that was paid in a manner that largely aligned their interests with mine. As far as I am aware, there are currently no home audio reviewers that come close. I also strongly suspect such reviewers would be unemployable by the current home audio press. This does not mean current reviews are valueless but that they should be read, if you are able to read them at all, in a very doubtful and questioning manner.

 

[shkumar4963]

That new Foo Fighters track 'Something From Nothing' is fantastic!

 

[shkumar4963]

What reviewers do you trust?

I would trust a reviewer that was an expert in the subject of the review and that was paid in a manner that largely aligned their interests with mine. As far as I am aware, there are currently no home audio reviewers that come close. I also strongly suspect such reviewers would be unemployable by the current home audio press. This does not mean current reviews are valueless but that they should be read, if you are able to read them at all, in a very doubtful and questioning manner.

I remember a course i did during my MBA program. It talked about the impact of advertising in general. In one experiment subjects were upfront told that the case studies that they were being told were wrong. But just because subjects had heard that case study, it had an impact on their perception about that company. And here the reviewers don't tell you that what they are saying is false. So it is not poasible for anyone to read such reviews and not be impacted by it.

And that is why advertising works.

 

[hg]

I remember a course i did during my MBA program. It talked about the impact of advertising in general. In one experiment subjects were upfront told that the case studies that they were being told were wrong. But just because subjects had heard that case study, it had an impact on their perception about that company. And here the reviewers don't tell you that what they are saying is false. So it is not poasible for anyone to read such reviews and not be impacted by it.

And that is why advertising works.

Advertising works both ways. If the reader accepts the positive story being told then it is likely to increase the attractiveness of the product. If the reader recognises they are being mislead or lied to it is likely to decrease the attractiveness of the product.

After the stereo boom in the 70s home audio switched from a reasonably technical lead to a largely marketing lead approach with the emergence of companies like Naim and Linn and even new product sectors like audiophile cables. The marketing used to make these technically poor value for money products attractive required the audience to both lack technical/scientific understanding and to be able to accept pseudoscientific if not outright magical explanations. It lead to pretty much everybody with an interest in how things work or who had a reasonable amount of common sense dropping a significant interest in home audio. At least as a consumer.

 

[Vladimir]

After the stereo boom in the 70s home audio switched from a reasonably technical lead to a largely marketing lead approach with the emergence of companies like Naim and Linn and even new product sectors like audiophile cables. The marketing used to make these technically poor value for money products attractive required the audience to both lack technical/scientific understanding and to be able to accept pseudoscientific if not outright magical explanations.

AKA dentist and lawyer money.

Those two companies were responsible for the dealer revolution, when the demo switch in shops was removed.

 

[manicm]

Be critical of them by all means, but Linn led by marketing? If you glean their annual profits it's a figure that won't afford them much and puts paid to that notion as patently false. It's also without argument they spend most of their budget on research. They also, as opposed to most other manufacturers, design and manufacture most of their components inside their products in house.

 

[hg]

Be critical of them by all means, but Linn led by marketing? If you glean their annual profits it's a figure that won't afford them much and puts paid to that notion as patently false. It's also without argument they spend most of their budget on research. They also, as opposed to most other manufacturers, design and manufacture most of their components inside their products in house.

I was not being critical of Linn and Naim. When the crunch came after the stereo boom they prospered selling their relatively poor value for money products by using marketing to build a high perceived value in the eyes of a technically illiterate segment of the population. Most of the established UK home audio companies of the time failed to do something similar and ceased trading although the remnants and many of the brands survive these days in the hands of mainly Asian companies.

No company selling low tech consumer goods into a competive market spends most of their budget on research. Ten percent would be a high figure.

For a few years after it first came out the Linn LP12 was a normal turntable sold at a similar price to other similar products from Thorens, Ariston,... Then came one of the first "subjective" reviews in a UK magazine claiming it possessed extraordinary performance [does anyone have a reference or a link?] and the price increased dramatically. So did the marketing claims from the company. It would be good to see such a nice example of the birth and rise of UK audiophile equipment reliably documented.

 

[manicm]

That still does not make sense, the truth is the lp12 and thorens were superior turntables at the time to most others. Linn did not actually spend much time or money on marketing, and neither do they still do now. Their DS players 8 years ago was the result of a huge amount of research on their part. You're indulging in hyperbole I'm afraid.

 

[Vladimir]

The Linn Sondek LP12 is basically a Thorens TD-160. At the same time the Technics SL-1200 was out and that is a far far superior machine, just incomparable. The first Naim was a kit amp from Wireless World and their circuits still are from those kit amps in the 60s.

Those two companies became successful on the wings of paid subjective reviews, high prices and high dealer margins to keep their gear specially demoed appart from everyone elses.

It is not a critique, its now part of hi-fi history.

 

[dim_span]

The Linn Sondek LP12 is basically a Thorens TD-160. At the same time the Technics SL-1200 was out and that is a far far superior machine, just incomparable. The first Naim was a kit amp from Wireless World and their circuits still are from those kit amps in the 60s.

Those two companies became successful on the wings of paid subjective reviews, high prices and high dealer margins to keep their gear specially demoed appart from everyone elses.

It is not a critique, its now part of hi-fi history.

There's lots of very happy Linn owners around ...

lets not forget about the Linn Sondek CD12 CD player .... they are old, but still fetch very high prices

even looking at their speakers, the Linn Kan are legend .... (they are like marmite ... love them, or hate them) ... There are many people still using these and some speaker manufacturers try and replicate/copy the sound from the Kan's ..... (Kef LS50 maybe?) *smile*

 

[hg]

There's lots of very happy Linn owners around ...

There are lots of happy Bose owners around as well. When it comes to luxury goods what makes people happy is rarely technical performance but perceived performance and particular by peers. And it is hard to see much wrong with that.

 

[Vladimir]

even looking at their speakers, the BBC LS3/5a are legends .... (they are like marmite ... love them, or hate them) ... There are many people still using these and some speaker manufacturers try and replicate/copy the sound from the BBC LS3/5a[/b] ..... (Kef LS50 maybe?) *smile*

Fixed it for you.

Rogers Audio was the earliest licensee, but went out of business before producing a single unit. The Rogers name was bought by Swisstone, who started manufacturing the 3/5A under licence in 1975. Rogers' production accounted for the majority, of around 43,000 pairs by 1988, and 50,000 pairs in total. Of the other main manufacturers, Spendor produced about 22,000 pairs, and Audiomaster 10,000. Dudley Harwood, the BBC engineer instrumental in the creation of the 3/5A, started Harbeth and obtained a license in 1977, but the company produced no LS3/5As for a decade. Eventually, Harbeth accounted for 7,000 pairs. KEF, who obtained its licence in 1993, claims approximately 4,000 pairs made. Other licensees included Chartwell, RAM, Goodmans and Stirling Broadcast.

In 1979, Linn Products created the Kan – a non-BBC specification bookshelf speaker that used a LS3/5A-sized cabinet and the same B110 driver from KEF. Linn acquired a hundred pairs of cabinets from the supplier of the bankrupt Chartwell, and used them for the very first Kans. The Kan, however, used a re-badged OEM D20-LP-1 tweeter from Hiquphon. Linn installed a very simple crossover into the box that transformed it into "one of the fastest and most involving wall mount miniatures ever", according to Martin Colloms.

Source

Linn Kan is an unofficial BBC LS3/5a clone and not a very genuine one. Even in Wikipedia articles they rely on reviewers marketing to be taken seriously.

 

[dim_span]

even looking at their speakers, the BBC LS3/5a are legends .... (they are like marmite ... love them, or hate them) ... There are many people still using these and some speaker manufacturers try and replicate/copy the sound from the BBC LS3/5a ..... (Kef LS50 maybe?) *smile*

Fixed it for you.

Rogers Audio was the earliest licensee, but went out of business before producing a single unit. The Rogers name was bought by Swisstone, who started manufacturing the 3/5A under licence in 1975. Rogers' production accounted for the majority, of around 43,000 pairs by 1988, and 50,000 pairs in total. Of the other main manufacturers, Spendor produced about 22,000 pairs, and Audiomaster 10,000. Dudley Harwood, the BBC engineer instrumental in the creation of the 3/5A, started Harbeth and obtained a license in 1977, but the company produced no LS3/5As for a decade. Eventually, Harbeth accounted for 7,000 pairs. KEF, who obtained its licence in 1993, claims approximately 4,000 pairs made. Other licensees included Chartwell, RAM, Goodmans and Stirling Broadcast.

In 1979, Linn Products created the Kan – a non-BBC specification bookshelf speaker that used a LS3/5A-sized cabinet and the same B110 driver from KEF. Linn acquired a hundred pairs of cabinets from the supplier of the bankrupt Chartwell, and used them for the very first Kans. The Kan, however, used a re-badged OEM D20-LP-1 tweeter from Hiquphon. Linn installed a very simple crossover into the box that transformed it into "one of the fastest and most involving wall mount miniatures ever", according to Martin Colloms.

Source

Linn Kan is an unofficial BBC LS3/5a clone and not a very genuine one. Even in Wikipedia articles they rely on reviewers marketing to be taken seriously.

yea ... many speaker manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon saying their speakers sound like (or are better than) LS3/5A

Iv'e read somewhere that someone compared KEF LS50 to Linn Kan's, and said that they sound similar (poor bass but good for vocals) .... I have not heard the LS50's personally though

like you said .... it's all 'marketing'

 

[Frank Harvey]

Iv'e read somewhere that someone compared KEF LS50 to Linn Kan's, and said that they sound similar (poor bass but good for vocals) .... I have not heard the LS50's personally though

I'd disagree.

 

[shkumar4963]

Surprise... We ran out of things to say...

 

[shkumar4963]

Does high-res sound better than CD? Pono execs reportedly aren't sure
Read more in whathifi website..

Damn... It is hard to keep the staffers silent...

 

[shkumar4963]

Naim Audio has announced the launch of its new Super Lumina range of interconnects and speaker cables at CES2015 – a range that has been developed in parallel with its Statement amplifier.

Ha Ha Ha

 

[ID.]

AKA dentist and lawyer money.

To be fair, I've worked with numerous IP attorneys who probably have a better grasp of technical matters than most people here, but they are the exception rather than the rule and it is thanks to their engineering and technical backgrounds that they have that understanding (e.g. originally worked in technical positions before going to law school).

 

[Vladimir]

Naim Audio has announced the launch of its new Super Lumina range of interconnects and speaker cables at CES2015 – a range that has been developed in parallel with its Statement amplifier.

Ha Ha Ha

 

[shkumar4963]

A question that Vlad and others can answer.

It seems that the sound stage created by my LS50 is about 18 inch below and about 24 inches behind the two speakers.

What decides where the sound stage is created? Is it in the recording itself ( but this sound stage placement is consistent with many recordings), angle of the speaker placements (about 3 degrees looking down) or something else?

 

[dim_span]

A question that Vlad and others can answer.

It seems that the sound stage created by my LS50 is about 18 inch below and about 24 inches behind the two speakers.

What decides where the sound stage is created? Is it in the recording itself ( but this sound stage placement is consistent with many recordings), angle of the speaker placements (about 3 degrees looking down) or something else?

try another amp or cdp ...