KEF LS50 disappointment :(

[Vladimir]

A question that Vlad and others can answer.

It seems that the sound stage created by my LS50 is about 18 inch below and about 24 inches behind the two speakers.

What decides where the sound stage is created? Is it in the recording itself ( but this sound stage placement is consistent with many recordings), angle of the speaker placements (about 3 degrees looking down) or something else?

Firstly, recording and production have the greatest impact on stereo, imaging, details, everything. Number of microphones, environment, types of microphones, their palcement, engineer's decisions on the board, producer's added effects and mixing etc.

Secondly, speaker positioning and room modes / reflections.

Last and least effect is the speakers themselves, cabinet diffractions, cabinet resonance, crossover or physical alignment timing, phase alignment etc. I guess record players would also come in this category as transducers, depending on the cart, the tracking, the record pressing, LP center alignment etc.

Amplifiers, cables and digital sources should have no impact on stereo imaging.

Would love to hear what others think about this as well. I presume conventional wisdom will be that speakers have greater impact on stereo than room acoustics and positioning. I think speakers and room cannot be separated really. It's one system. Dipole speakers interact with a room differently than closed box.

*bye*

 

[unsleepable]

Amplifiers, cables and digital sources should have no impact on stereo imaging.

I agree that speakers and their interaction with the room have the most influence on imaging. But in my experience, some amps and sources can also affect it. For example, I find the Arcam A19 quite good at this. And my current Naim DAC-V1 produces a bit shallower soundstage in comparison with my previous irDac.

 

[Vladimir]

Amplifiers, cables and digital sources should have no impact on stereo imaging.

I agree that speakers and their interaction with the room have the most influence on imaging. But in my experience, some amps and sources can also affect it. For example, I find the Arcam A19 quite good at this. And my current Naim DAC-V1 produces a bit shallower soundstage in comparison with my previous irDac.

I have the same experience as you do. I just interpret the 'why' differently.

 

[shkumar4963]

A question that Vlad and others can answer.

It seems that the sound stage created by my LS50 is about 18 inch below and about 24 inches behind the two speakers.

What decides where the sound stage is created? Is it in the recording itself ( but this sound stage placement is consistent with many recordings), angle of the speaker placements (about 3 degrees looking down) or something else?

Firstly, recording and production have the greatest impact on stereo, imaging, details, everything. Number of microphones, environment, types of microphones, their palcement, engineer's decisions on the board, producer's added effects and mixing etc.?

Secondly, speaker positioning and room modes / reflections.?

Last and least effect is the speakers themselves, cabinet diffractions, cabinet resonance, crossover or physical alignment timing, phase alignment etc. I guess record players would also come in this category as transducers, depending on the cart, the tracking, the record pressing, LP center alignment etc.

Amplifiers, cables and digital sources should have no impact on stereo imaging.

Would love to hear what others think about this as well. I presume conventional wisdom will be that speakers have greater impact on stereo than room acoustics and positioning. I think speakers and room cannot be separated really. It's one system. Dipole speakers interact with a room differently than closed box.?

*bye*

Thanks. Here is some additional info. I am first interested in learning why and then hoping to fix it.

The sound stage is only available withing one foot of listner position left or right. My set up has speakers and listener all 6 ft apart. The sound stage is lost other than within that one foot left or right if center. Is this normal? Why?

Source is digital streamed from spotify or 320 mp3.

The sound stage is always 18 inch below speaker level. Speakers are my ear level on a stand. TV is about 18 inch above soeakers. So when listening to concert videos, it seems the sound is coming from about 30 inch below the tv.

How to fix that?

1. Buy another stand and raise speakers 18 inch above tv and 30 inch above my ear level and tilted down?

2. Keep the stands but tilt the speakers up pointing above my ear?

3. Something else?

 

[chebby]

Will this thread outlast production of the speakers?

 

[dim_span]

read this article by John Atkinson from Stereophile about soundstage/imaging etc:

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/1286awsi/

 

[Covenanter]

Will this thread outlast production of the speakers?

It's already outlasted my interest!

Chris

 

[Vladimir]

read this article by John Atkinson from Stereophile about soundstage/imaging etc:

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/1286awsi/

Excellent introduction on this topic.

 

[shkumar4963]

Thanks Vlad.

Keep them coming.

There must be a single location for all this material that will allow new people to get a primer on speaker selection, what to look for, what compromises are made etc. and fundamentals of sound as it applies to hifi.

If there is none, may be we should create a thread that has all the links so that people can go and read.

 

[shkumar4963]

read this article by John Atkinson from Stereophile about soundstage/imaging etc:

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/1286awsi/

Excellent article. The verticall positioning of the Soundstage is mentioned in a foot note with a comment that it will be better discussed in a future article.

Do you know if it was discussed I'm a future publication?

Also any other source that explains the phenomena using physics concepts and with calculations?

Thanks again.

 

[shkumar4963]

Please excuse my typos in the last post.

My ability to type using this smartphone is severely limited.

 

[shkumar4963]

Someone say something.

Let this thread not die.

 

[Vladimir]

Someone say something.

Let this thread not die.

You have the rest of the forum to have fun. Why focus on just this thread?

 

[steve_1979]

I we start arguing about cables the mods may take mercy and lock the thread.

 

[steve_1979]

They don't make any difference BTW. *bomb*

 

[CnoEvil]

They don't make any difference BTW. *bomb*

Differences don't seem to make a difference, so not making a different difference is hardly going to be any different...as differences go, that is. *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[steve_1979]

They don't make any difference BTW. *bomb*

Differences don't seem to make a difference, so not making a different difference is hardly going to be any different...as differences go, that is. *scratch_one-s_head*

Finally you 'get it'.

 

[CnoEvil]

They don't make any difference BTW. *bomb*

Differences don't seem to make a difference, so not making a different difference is hardly going to be any different...as differences go, that is. *scratch_one-s_head*

Finally you 'get it'.....

.....Yup, it's The Punxsutawney Groundhog Club getting ready for 2nd February.[/b]

 

[shkumar4963]

Tact/Lyngdorf woofers and included DRC solution for ls50. Has anyone tried that?

Other alternative is to use two regular subs with corner loading and use of DRC like miniDSP to balance low frequency peak and valleys due to boundary effects. Anyone tried that?

 

[shkumar4963]

Where are you guys? What threads do you monitor?

I had a quick question. Speaker that have the port, since the port resonantes, shouldn't or wouldn't it resonance when the frequency of excitement is any where close to its resonance frequency. If that is the case, wouldn't it create a distortion where resonance frequency is excited even though the signal does not have that frequency

Is this distortion not big enough to be worried about?

The more I listen to ls50 the better I like. I am beginning to believe that 10 min. ABX testing may not be able to tell the finer differences between audio equipments. It is taking me close to 4 weeks to really see and hear finer details in this ls50.

 

[CnoEvil]

I am beginning to believe that 10 min. ABX testing may not be able to tell the finer differences between audio equipments. It is taking me close to 4 weeks to really see and hear finer details in this ls50.

Now you're beginning to see the light. *smile*

 

[Craig M.]

It is taking me close to 4 weeks to really see and hear finer details in this ls50.

So the speakers are reproducing details that it's taken you 4 weeks to hear? Have you had an ear infection?

 

[manicm]

It is taking me close to 4 weeks to really see and hear finer details in this ls50.

So the speakers are reproducing details that it's taken you 4 weeks to hear? Have you had an ear infection?

That's not far-fetched, especially if one is not doing daily listening. I've had the same experience sometimes, where it can take weeks to identify strengths and weaknesses in a system. Also, no point in resorting to insults.

 

[Native_bon]

It is taking me close to 4 weeks to really see and hear finer details in this ls50.

So the speakers are reproducing details that it's taken you 4 weeks to hear? Have you had an ear infection?

That's not far-fetched, especially if one is not doing daily listening. I've had the same experience sometimes, where it can take weeks to identify strengths and weaknesses in a system. Also, no point in resorting to insults.

Agree

 

[lindsayt]

Shkumar, I think port related distortion is a plague on modern speakers. Some ported speakers suffer more from it than others. The LS50's are better than some, eg B&W PM1's, in this respect.

For better bass quality I generally prefer speakers that don't have ports. If you ever get the chance try comparing some properly engineeered sealed box speakers against your LS50's.