JBL Synthesis 4367 - oh mama...

[chebby]

Those JBLs in the OP are gorgeous and I would love them in an appropriate (large) 1960s themed hi-fi lounge.

 

[lindsayt]

On the car analogy thing, we can play a little game of fantasy car buying - in which we are all billionaires.

If you wanted to travel from A to B as quckly as possible on the German Autobahn, which car would you buy?

Feel free to boast about the specs of your fantasy car, including its' max speed.

car analogy sucks. there are many examples of ultra fast/ hi end/ luxury/ small cars but looks like vintage/ PA style loudspekaers are only massive/ ugly and not so cool to look at.. unless you love loudcoffin instead of loudspeakers

If you think that the car analogy sucks, why did you introduce it into this thread in post #25?

 

[Electro]

my last live gig was jamiroquai at manchester arena few weeks ago.. the gig was great but the sound was pain; disjointed bass, piercing mids ( my ears were bleeding) and echo.. if you don't know music you barely could understand what was going on sometimes.. how anybody would want to recreate that at home?

Your'e going to the wrong gigs . *smile*

There must be some better venues you can try .

Some of my local venues and many in london have superb soundsystems and acoustics too, the sound quality is superb in many.

 

[lindsayt]

The advantage is in the large, robust, high efficiency drivers. They play very loud, with minimum distortion, and at only few watts, which means the amplifier is also doing clean, unclipped transients. The 15" driver barely moves yet the floors are shaking. 110dB low distortion transient for a compression driver is just another day at the office.

On the opposite side you have a 6.5" midbass and dome tweeter in a tiny box at 82-85dB efficiency, straigning to get loud. The midbass is pumping air moving over an inch, trying to do midrange at the same time. Distortion is thrrough the roof, the 60W amp is choking and clipping the transients. 110dB low distortion transient for a 1" dome tweeter gets you an engineering award and patent money.

That is a great summary Vladimir.

 

[lpv]

On the car analogy thing, we can play a little game of fantasy car buying - in which we are all billionaires.

If you wanted to travel from A to B as quckly as possible on the German Autobahn, which car would you buy?

Feel free to boast about the specs of your fantasy car, including its' max speed.

car analogy sucks. there are many examples of ultra fast/ hi end/ luxury/ small cars but looks like vintage/ PA style loudspekaers are only massive/ ugly and not so cool to look at.. unless you love loudcoffin instead of loudspeakers

If you think that the car analogy sucks, why did you introduce it into this thread in post #25?

cause I knew you're gonna like it

 

[lpv]

my last live gig was jamiroquai at manchester arena few weeks ago.. the gig was great but the sound was pain; disjointed bass, piercing mids ( my ears were bleeding) and echo.. if you don't know music you barely could understand what was going on sometimes.. how anybody would want to recreate that at home?

Your'e going to the wrong gigs . *smile*

There must be some better venues you can try .

Some of my local venues and many in london have superb soundsystems and acoustics too, the sound quality is superb in many.

it was simply my last gig, but if jamiroquais sound guys and/ or manchester arena sound guys can't get it right maybe PA systems are not that good? and are only designed to go loud and not break.

on the contrary I went there

last summer.. unamplified music and what a experinece that was !!!

highly recommend place to visit; many musicians say this is one of the best sounding halls in the world

http://www.nospr.org.pl/en/calendar

 

[lpv]

The advantage is in the large, robust, high efficiency drivers. They play very loud, with minimum distortion, and at only few watts, which means the amplifier is also doing clean, unclipped transients. The 15" driver barely moves yet the floors are shaking. 110dB low distortion transient for a compression driver is just another day at the office.

On the opposite side you have a 6.5" midbass and dome tweeter in a tiny box at 82-85dB efficiency, straigning to get loud. The midbass is pumping air moving over an inch, trying to do midrange at the same time. Distortion is thrrough the roof, the 60W amp is choking and clipping the transients. 110dB low distortion transient for a 1" dome tweeter gets you an engineering award and patent money.

That is a great summary Vladimir.

both are designed for different purpose. you’re not going to put these big horn speakers in 3 x 4 living room unless you are japanese audiophile and share listening space with fridge behind your head. I wonder if he switch the fridge off or simply ignores the noise it makes?

 

[Vladimir]

The 4367s aren't that big. They're just chunky.

 

[Vladimir]

 

[lpv]

I agree, these are no bigger than some floorstanders

edit: how far are/ or how big is the gap between these and 708 model?

 

[Vladimir]

I agree, these are no bigger than some floorstanders

edit: how far are/ or how big is the gap between these and 708 model?

708p are much smaller, much cheaper and active.

The problem with combining 8" woofer in a small box and compression driver is the difference in efficiency. Based on measurements and buyers feedback, it seems JBLs engineers were up to the challenge. Those that compared the M2 and the 705/708 report that they sound essentially the same, difference being that the M2 will go louder.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I agree, these are no bigger than some floorstanders

 

edit: how far are/ or how big is the gap between these and 708 model?

708p are much smaller, much cheaper and active. 

The problem with combining 8" woofer in a small box and compression driver is the difference in efficiency. Based on measurements and buyers feedback, it seems JBLs engineers were up to the challenge. Those that compared the M2 and the 705/708 report that they sound essentially the same, difference being that the M2 will go louder.

Going to test those 708p real.soon and report back asap. Just been so tired up lately.

 

[Electro]

my last live gig was jamiroquai at manchester arena few weeks ago.. the gig was great but the sound was pain; disjointed bass, piercing mids ( my ears were bleeding) and echo.. if you don't know music you barely could understand what was going on sometimes.. how anybody would want to recreate that at home?

Your'e going to the wrong gigs . *smile*

There must be some better venues you can try .

Some of my local venues and many in london have superb soundsystems and acoustics too, the sound quality is superb in many.

it was simply my last gig, but if jamiroquais sound guys and/ or manchester arena sound guys can't get it right maybe PA systems are not that good? and are only designed to go loud and not break.

on the contrary I went there

last summer.. unamplified music and what a experinece that was !!!

highly recommend place to visit; many musicians say this is one of the best sounding halls in the world

http://www.nospr.org.pl/en/calendar

I bet that was an experience you will never forget, I am quite envious. *smile*

 

[Vladimir]

I agree, these are no bigger than some floorstanders

edit: how far are/ or how big is the gap between these and 708 model?

708p are much smaller, much cheaper and active.

The problem with combining 8" woofer in a small box and compression driver is the difference in efficiency. Based on measurements and buyers feedback, it seems JBLs engineers were up to the challenge. Those that compared the M2 and the 705/708 report that they sound essentially the same, difference being that the M2 will go louder.

Going to test those 708p real.soon and report back asap. Just been so tired up lately.

IME no good auditioning kit when you're tired and defocused with general life stuff. Go for it when you feel its good to do so.

 

[Vladimir]

Some people complain how these high efficiency designs don't have very deep bass, cutting off generally at 40-50Hz -+/3dB. First you have to have in mind that most rooms attenuate bass up by few dbs, and second that too much bass can mask midrange clarity, even when covered by a different driver. In the 4367 the woofer crosses at 700Hz and it doesn't go low down to car subwoofer levels, main concern being maintaining midrange clarity. To get to organ instrument depth, you need those closet sized boxes and umbrella sized woofers in speakers like Bozaks, in a fairly large room. That's the only way to maintain efficiency and go deep that far, otherwise you have to compromise and go with less bass.

Bass was the East Coast Sound's forte. With it's more holistic aprocah they deemed you don't want too much midrange and sprakling highs in classical music if you want to replicate the actual live experience, but bass has to be immense and clean down to 27Hz, even at the cost of megawatts of amplification. You don't want the violins screaming infront of you in your room if you are playing a symphony and sitting in the middle rows. But if you played rock and jazz, you wanted those instruments in your face, so you went West Coast.

 

[lpv]

is it not easier with active 3 ways?

I met someone who run active 6 inch midbass monitors with stereo subs.. acoustics excellence 18 inch drivers that can go up to 1kHz but he cross them over at around 350 Hz so his 6 inch midbass acts as midrange unit.. the stereo image is as it should be and way beyond wardrobe style speakers plus stereo image is strong, spl insane and bass flat down to 20Hz

 

[Vladimir]

is it not easier with active 3 ways?

I met someone who run active 6 inch midbass monitors with stereo subs.. acoustics excellence 18 inch drivers that can go up to 1kHz but he cross them over at around 350 Hz so his 6 inch midbass acts as midrange unit.. the stereo image is as it should be and way beyond wardrobe style speakers plus stereo image is strong, spl insane and bass flat down to 20Hz

What is he using for midbass and highs as drivers? Can't say I've heard of Acoustic Excellence as a company.

 

[lpv]

acoustic elegance, sorry

 

[lpv]

he’s using avi 10s

 

[Vladimir]

he’s using avi 10s

That's rubbish, sorry. I thought we were talking proper speakers with high efficiency.

 

[lpv]

are you saying big 18 inch 3 way atc or pmc are all rubbish because are not efficient?

 

[Vladimir]

are you saying big 18 inch 3 way atc or pmc are all rubbish because are not efficient?

Comparing those AVI bookshelf mini monitors to these 4367 monsters is rubbish. I don't care what subs you hook up. Those can't even measure up to lindsayt's old passive EV Sentry IIIs.

Comparing them to the LSR 705p or 708p is more apples to apples.

I'm not brand hating, it's physics.

 

[lpv]

ok, but I’ve asked you a different question

what’s the difference between big 3 way atc/ pmc and monitors plus big subs? are these all rubbish?

 

[Vladimir]

ok, but I’ve asked you a different question

what’s the difference between big 3 way atc/ pmc and monitors plus big subs? are these all rubbish?

Oh. There shouldn't be any downsides, in fact you have the advantage to move the bass in better room positions, use stereo or quadro subs, not leak vibration to other drivers etc.

 

[lpv]

ok, now when we have this sorted please explain to me why speakers / drivers you’re talking about are better at music replay at home than the speakers I’m taking about