lpv said:
We are discussing advantages of high efficiency and compression drivers. Read back DDCs comments, they are quite informative.
We are discussing advantages of high efficiency and compression drivers. Read back DDCs comments, they are quite informative.
insider9
Well-known member
you'll get 30 hrs free nursery in about 3 years from now *dance4* by that time they may double the hours *crazy*
newlash09
Well-known member
the only time I've heard horn dishwasher was Lindsays.. his speakers - as presented to me ( with 1,5 Watt SET) - hiss very loud so when there was no music playing or quiet piano etc the hiss was quite audiable.. is this norm with efficient/ sensitive speakers?
lpv said:
It would seem that the system has a rather high noise floor if this was the case. With high sensitivity speakers, this is something you need to be aware of, but not really an issue.
When installing big studio monitors with sensitivity in the 95 dB + range we used to reckon that if you could walk into the control room, invariably much quieter than a domestic room, and tell that the monitors were 'on', then they were too noisy.
coming from virtually silent speakers this could be an isssue for me hence my question if this is normal for high sensitity speakers
insider9
Well-known member
Speakers only play what's passed on to them. What you describe is down to incorrect gain structure of the system or amp that has a very basic design (not a bad thing). First case scenario low level source such as a turntable is amplified by not so low noise amplifier. It's only natural a lot of noise is amplified.
Noise is one of the reasons I prefer digital sources. Usually no noise until DAC and from then on compared to analogue minimal noise or absolutely none if using balanced connections.
Noise is one of the reasons I prefer digital sources. Usually no noise until DAC and from then on compared to analogue minimal noise or absolutely none if using balanced connections.
lpv said:
Passive speakers of course do not generate hiss. All systems will generate hiss, it is inherent in the electronics. Speakers of the type we are discussing will typically be around 6-8dB higher than average, for noise to be an issue here you would have to have a very poorly selected or matched system.
Hyper sensitive speakers, those up around the 100dB/watt are really pretty rare and partnering electronics may need to be selected with a little more care, but again it really should not be an issue.
Most modern systems using decent 30 wpc valve amplifiers and easy to drive speakers with a sensitivity in the low 90 dB/watt range will be fine. This is the kind of system that most people (who buy valve amps) buy, they are no more difficult to use than mainstream systems and just as quiet.
It is the enthusiast world of hyper sensitive speakers, single ended and some vintage amps that noise can be a real problem, but even then, it can be worked through.
lpv said:
By selecting amplifiers that are not inherently noisy, by building a system that does not have too much or too many gain stages.
To be honest, it is mainly an experience thing, at it's simplest it is just a case of avoiding relatively noisy phono stages or pre-amps with high gain power amps, but it can get a little more complex involving transformer step up devices for mc cartridges rather than more noisy active devices and in some cases careful cable dressing.
I wouldn't overthink this, unless you are seriously considering hyper sensitive speakers, it is not an issue. With the usual modern type 'suitable for valve' speakers it is largely a matter of common sense.
Actually, the hiss that you heard was when we were using my Creek CAS4040 amp. It was £99 new. And the biggest way the budget nature of this amp has always been shown on every speaker I've used them with has been with the hiss. Including my Heybrook HB1's when they and the Creek were brand new in 1983. One can't expect miracles at that sort of price level.lpv said:
The Korneff clone SET amp that you also heard is inaudible for hiss through my Sentry III's, but has developed over time a bit of hum through 1 channel, which I will resolve when it gets too annoying. When this amplifier was "new" (all valves in it are old stock), you could put your ear up against the EV's and not know if the amplifier was on or not.
So, in answer to your question, no hiss is not the norm with efficient speakers.
Nevertheless, even with the hissy cheapo Creek amplifier, the passive EV's were a more realistic sounding (and therefore better in my book) system than your AVI actives.
Hiss is a funny thing. I've heard brand new Naim pre-powers that were quite hissy. This has never stopped them from commanding high prices and from being enjoyed tremendously by the people that own them.
thanks for clarification Lindsay..
you judged my system as I presented it to you and I judged your system as you presented to me.
I forgot there was hiss and hum
funny you should mention realism.. I don’t recall hiss or hum coming from piano or violin but then anything - you have a point here - is enjoyed tremendously by the people that own it
you judged my system as I presented it to you and I judged your system as you presented to me.
I forgot there was hiss and hum
funny you should mention realism.. I don’t recall hiss or hum coming from piano or violin but then anything - you have a point here - is enjoyed tremendously by the people that own it
Electro
Well-known member
lpv said:
I sometimes get hiss and hum coming from my speakers when music is playing , it's quite audible when the music pauses or the musicians are playing very quietly.
But it's always coming from the PA system the musicians are using to play music though, definitely not my system. *smile*
Merry Christmas to you and peace to all . *drinks*
If the AVI's hissed more lpv would praise it as proof of [insert whatever here].
Nitpicking. *boredom*
Nitpicking. *boredom*
There's a phrase in one of the classic Dale Carnegie books: "Don't sweat the small stuff."
That's why I don't sweat over a bit of hiss OR a bit of hum in my systems. Hiss OR hum that is not noticeable when the music starts. Hiss OR hum that is not audible at my listening position in my large room when no music is playing. Hiss from an ultra budget solid state amp that is, in any case, easily solvable by using a different solid state amp - for example one of the JBL ex cinema amps. Hum from a SET amp that is easily solvable by replacing the valve that's causing the hum.
if lpv wants to sweat the small stuff, that's entirely up to him.
Maybe he turns his central heating off whenever he listens to his system, as domestic central heating noise wasn't there when they made the recording?
I prefer to adopt a pareto approach to hi-fi instead of a "sweating the small stuff" approach. It's why I, for example, don't give two hoots about cables. Audio nervosa is not for me. I prefer the Pareto philosophy. Focus on the important things.
Such as the inability for a system costing £1750 to realistically recreate transients from ANY instruments. From bass drums to piccolos. Or the inability to recreate all the low level detail, such as concert hall acoustics. Still one can't expect miracles from tiny low efficiency active speakers. We can't expect them to be as accurate and realistic with transients and low level detail as properly engineered fuller sized higher efficiency speakers such as JBL 4367's.
That's why I don't sweat over a bit of hiss OR a bit of hum in my systems. Hiss OR hum that is not noticeable when the music starts. Hiss OR hum that is not audible at my listening position in my large room when no music is playing. Hiss from an ultra budget solid state amp that is, in any case, easily solvable by using a different solid state amp - for example one of the JBL ex cinema amps. Hum from a SET amp that is easily solvable by replacing the valve that's causing the hum.
if lpv wants to sweat the small stuff, that's entirely up to him.
Maybe he turns his central heating off whenever he listens to his system, as domestic central heating noise wasn't there when they made the recording?
I prefer to adopt a pareto approach to hi-fi instead of a "sweating the small stuff" approach. It's why I, for example, don't give two hoots about cables. Audio nervosa is not for me. I prefer the Pareto philosophy. Focus on the important things.
Such as the inability for a system costing £1750 to realistically recreate transients from ANY instruments. From bass drums to piccolos. Or the inability to recreate all the low level detail, such as concert hall acoustics. Still one can't expect miracles from tiny low efficiency active speakers. We can't expect them to be as accurate and realistic with transients and low level detail as properly engineered fuller sized higher efficiency speakers such as JBL 4367's.
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