Isolatton Products - what exists?

[ellisdj]

LessLoss Blackbody and Intelligent Box before casting any premature judgments!

I would only take this review with a pinch of salt anyway regardless of the products way out nature - that room he is in his acoustically horrendous - thats the most live room imagineable.

 

[cheeseboy]

This is where I think the main divide of opinion comes - from me and others, I often disagree with people on here.

The environment where I did the blind testing was done was completely controlled acoustic treated room - that is also there best I have heard a hifi sound from an imaging point of view. It was possible to clearly make out all members of a band within their space and there was silence inbetween them which gave them their space. This playback was not perfect I know now but it opened my eyes to what is possible for audio playvback and what surprisingly makes a difference - is actually not snake oil at all

I have heard lots of different systems since - nothing gets close to that what I heard that day - why because the environment these systems are in is not as good and are killing the sound even £££££££££££££ worth of kit - sounding garbage.

After hearing the system that I became hell bent on getting that sound at home (as close as I can) - and looked to improve the acoustics of my room. This makes more of a difference than anything else you can spend your money on. Simple as that.

So here is my point - I see picture after picture after picture of peoples system in hollow rooms, wood floor all looking pretty but I know for a fact that any system in that room will sound hindered by a huge % as much as 100% by the room

So the acoustic environment people do their testing is killing the testing - because the person is hearing the room in the first place and not the kit.

Hard fact but a true fact.

So they say cables, isolation etc are all snake oil becuase in their room they heard no difference - fair enough but they are not factoring in the high % of influence their hearing of the room to start with and how much is being lost.

y'see, I agree with that, and most people on here would, so not sure why you're saying about disagreement. The bizarre thing is that you're diving in recommending to people about changing cables, championing this that and the other, which imho is foo, but yours is not, when you've just admitted it yourself that it's probably the room a lot of the time that's the issue :? Maybe if we could concentrate more on people taking stock of where they are playing, rather than what they are playing with it would be a good start 🙂

So for them to say categorically these products make no difference is a false recommendation.

Instead they should say - I heard no difference in my room - and nut shun peoples work as a con

not necessarily. There are products that we can categorically prove that they make no difference, yet people still say they do....

 

[lindsayt]

ellisdj, my floors are carpeted, suspended wooden.

So with my solid state amps (and my analogue sources and speakers) on the floor, £3.49 (or free) interconnects, 15 metre long £2.20 per stereo metre speaker cable, original speaker terminal jumpers which resemble pitted old paper-clips my system must sound quite ordinary at best, even if it uses pretty good sources, amp and speakers?

Does that mean that you'd be confident that if we got your tweaked system and mine together, that you'd be confident that yours would sound better?

 

[TrevC]

Bloody snake oil brigade

That's you, isn't it? I'm happy with the unbreakable laws of physics and Ohms law. No snake oil for me.

 

[Covenanter]

Its the Linear Power Supply powering part of the audio Pc thats my point of initial interest - placing the LPSU ontop of a thick slab of ploystyrene has made a positive difference - therefore a properly designed solution should benefit far greater

Thanks for the sensible suggestions - ordered the ion hair dryer and am hoping it will help with my hair loss therapy.

I have reposted the above to try and bring some sense back to the thread. The snake oil brigade do really get on my mits - why bother posting stick to threads you are more interested in, that you can bring positive messages to.

Personally I just can't bear to see nonsense being promulgated. Others can speak for themselves.

Chris

PS I had to Google "hard knee house curve". Wonderful stuff.

No Nonsense here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

Hard knee house curve is based on solid facts - humans dont hear bass in a linear fashion, all say they want a flat freq reponse but the reality is the deeper the bass the more volume is needed for it be audible at the same volume. A flat freq response is not actually flat in how you hear it.

Therefore a curved bass setup actually works better - and followinng the advice you set it up to your ears

The hard knee house curve addresses the issue of bloated bass caused by a standard house curve - once you have your system setup like this I doubt you could ever go back as you could hear where the bass is severly lacking.

I don't know what to say to you!

Chris

And to you - you clearly have not looked this up - if you did you would realise that I am 100% right.

In fact you can test it yourself - play a 90hz test tone - then play a 30hz test tone - I would wager all I own that the 30 hz tone will sound a lot quiter to you than the 90hz. You might noit have 30hz in your room or it will probably be modal so maybe try 35hz

If you also look at how Anthem Processors and the new receivers setup the sound its in a similar way - thats because of actual official studies that have been done that prove that this sounds best. Technically it makes sense as well.

You can write it off thinking you know best - but at the same time your missing out!

The problem is that you think you understand what you are saying but actually you don't. Sad but there is nothing I can say that will change that.

Chris

 

[ellisdj]

Lindsay T where do you live?

 

[ellisdj]

Its the Linear Power Supply powering part of the audio Pc thats my point of initial interest - placing the LPSU ontop of a thick slab of ploystyrene has made a positive difference - therefore a properly designed solution should benefit far greater

Thanks for the sensible suggestions - ordered the ion hair dryer and am hoping it will help with my hair loss therapy.

I have reposted the above to try and bring some sense back to the thread. The snake oil brigade do really get on my mits - why bother posting stick to threads you are more interested in, that you can bring positive messages to.

Personally I just can't bear to see nonsense being promulgated. Others can speak for themselves.

Chris

PS I had to Google "hard knee house curve". Wonderful stuff.

No Nonsense here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

Hard knee house curve is based on solid facts - humans dont hear bass in a linear fashion, all say they want a flat freq reponse but the reality is the deeper the bass the more volume is needed for it be audible at the same volume. A flat freq response is not actually flat in how you hear it.

Therefore a curved bass setup actually works better - and followinng the advice you set it up to your ears

The hard knee house curve addresses the issue of bloated bass caused by a standard house curve - once you have your system setup like this I doubt you could ever go back as you could hear where the bass is severly lacking.

I don't know what to say to you!

Chris

And to you - you clearly have not looked this up - if you did you would realise that I am 100% right.

In fact you can test it yourself - play a 90hz test tone - then play a 30hz test tone - I would wager all I own that the 30 hz tone will sound a lot quiter to you than the 90hz. You might noit have 30hz in your room or it will probably be modal so maybe try 35hz

If you also look at how Anthem Processors and the new receivers setup the sound its in a similar way - thats because of actual official studies that have been done that prove that this sounds best. Technically it makes sense as well.

You can write it off thinking you know best - but at the same time your missing out!

The problem is that you think you understand what you are saying but actually you don't. Sad but there is nothing I can say that will change that.

Chris

Have you tried it - have you actually looked it up - I think you will find that is bang on correct what I am saying.

I cant believe you either - even when faced with facts such as this- http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/articles/how-the-ear-works.htm

 

[Covenanter]

Its the Linear Power Supply powering part of the audio Pc thats my point of initial interest - placing the LPSU ontop of a thick slab of ploystyrene has made a positive difference - therefore a properly designed solution should benefit far greater

Thanks for the sensible suggestions - ordered the ion hair dryer and am hoping it will help with my hair loss therapy.

I have reposted the above to try and bring some sense back to the thread. The snake oil brigade do really get on my mits - why bother posting stick to threads you are more interested in, that you can bring positive messages to.

Personally I just can't bear to see nonsense being promulgated. Others can speak for themselves.

Chris

PS I had to Google "hard knee house curve". Wonderful stuff.

No Nonsense here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

Hard knee house curve is based on solid facts - humans dont hear bass in a linear fashion, all say they want a flat freq reponse but the reality is the deeper the bass the more volume is needed for it be audible at the same volume. A flat freq response is not actually flat in how you hear it.

Therefore a curved bass setup actually works better - and followinng the advice you set it up to your ears

The hard knee house curve addresses the issue of bloated bass caused by a standard house curve - once you have your system setup like this I doubt you could ever go back as you could hear where the bass is severly lacking.

I don't know what to say to you!

Chris

And to you - you clearly have not looked this up - if you did you would realise that I am 100% right.

In fact you can test it yourself - play a 90hz test tone - then play a 30hz test tone - I would wager all I own that the 30 hz tone will sound a lot quiter to you than the 90hz. You might noit have 30hz in your room or it will probably be modal so maybe try 35hz

If you also look at how Anthem Processors and the new receivers setup the sound its in a similar way - thats because of actual official studies that have been done that prove that this sounds best. Technically it makes sense as well.

You can write it off thinking you know best - but at the same time your missing out!

The problem is that you think you understand what you are saying but actually you don't. Sad but there is nothing I can say that will change that.

Chris

Have you tried it - have you actually looked it up - I think you will find that is bang on correct what I am saying.

I cant believe you either - even when faced with facts such as this- http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/articles/how-the-ear-works.htm

I don't need to try everything to know when it is nonsense! You can't buck basic physics however hard you try to believe.

But you carry on. Spending money is good for the economy whatever it is spent on.

Chris

 

[ellisdj]

Chris - that is spending no money - its just setting up the system in a certain way. And knowing what your speakers / sub is actually doing in your room. Do you have any idea what your speakers are doing in your room at your listening position - have you measured this?

Its just spending time,.learning and attention to detail like I said before. If I try something and it doesnt work out then I dont use it. But somethings you find out are game changers and the hard knee is one of them.

If it was called something else like an optimum curve - you would maybe see it differently, or if it came from WHF as the next best thing to - because its called a house curve you think 18 yr old essex boy car bass.

Its not like at all - I get transparent, accurate, textured, controlled bass thats fast and goes deep with conviction for the most part.

The bass is one of the best bits of my system - within the limits of my room

 

[ReValveiT]

I like music.

 

[lindsayt]

I'm in West Yorkshire. I'm contactable via the same user name on most of the other UK based hi-fi forums via PM.

 

[pauln]

Bloody snake oil brigade

Lindsay T - just because you put your kit on the floor doesnt make it right - thats the worst place for it to be just to point out, even on a concrete floor although I am guessing yuo dont have an exposed concerete floor

I have done controlled blind testing based on isolation and that proved to me there and then and several others that it is important and does make a difference. In fact I didnt know isolation was being changed so there was no bias at all.

Secondly I have tested this myself and heard it with my own ears that isolating certain products improves sound quality. In my room there is a lot of bass - I like it this way - and it sound best for it - its necessary to have a lot of bass to support a full range sound.

There is energy moving into all my compnents I dare say - some more than others. Now this definately harmfil of delicate imaging cues for one and I have heard it with ym own ears make a significant difference to the transparency of bass I get from my sub.

There is no snake oil here a piece of polystyrene under the power supply feeding my audio pc. It makes a difference simple as that.

I have looked at the many different products been linked too - some are very very expensive, overly expensive but not all are.

Thanks for the input

Now I know you really are bonkers - who would pay 350 Euros for a USB lead let alone for a ******* sata lead as well! (JCAT as per your signature) That's more than your main speakers cost; Monitor Audio GX100 hooked up to thousands of pounds worth of computer, processor, amp etc. I think you've got your priorities arse about face to say the least. Just my opinion, whatever floats yer boat. Blimey.

(You could do yourself a favour and check out the Harbeth forum - you might see sense)

EDIT: Sorry, didn't realise this sata thing had been extensively commented on in the other thread.

 

[ellisdj]

I dont really get the logic of those comments besides the cable insults you obviously feel the speakers are poor quality

I actually disagree its what they are fed thats generally poor quality especially if a computer is used as a digital transport

I admit i would prefer that platinum s but they would be wasted in my room acoustically treated or not.

I tell you this now though - this system would surprise you and i look forward to.hopefully showing 1 or 2 forum members at some point

 

[pauln]

I dont really get the logic of those comments besides the cable insults you obviously feel the speakers are poor quality

I actually disagree its what they are fed thats generally poor quality especially if a computer is used as a digital transport

I admit i would prefer that platinum s but they would be wasted in my room acoustically treated or not.

I tell you this now though - this system would surprise you and i look forward to.hopefully showing 1 or 2 forum members at some point

Just have a little look at the opposite point of view... you really might do yourself a big favour by spending more on the speakers and less on foo.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/index.php There's a lot of interesting stuff there about how things actually work, even the human ear and our hearing. There's hearing tests that you can do to illustrate just how poor your hearing and auditory memory actually is. It's an eye opening experience for anyone thinking they've got golden ears.

What have you got to lose? Would you not agree that the speakers are doing the lions share of the work? They are after all, what makes the air move in such a way as to allow you to hear things. I think 99.9% of people would agree that they are considerably more important than sata cables! Does it not strike you as odd that nobody here agrees with you? Don't you think it a little worrying that you get all your 'facts' from people that are selling the products that those facts pertain to?

BTW, as far as I know, the whole thing about optimising a PC for audio production - not playback (and video editing in my case) arose some years ago when processor power and memory was insufficient to keep up with the demands of the software, resulting in dropouts and latency issues. Hence having dedicated hard drives, asio drivers, shutting down uneccesary services etc. These days there is no problem for even a moderately specced PC to handle these tasks.

I suspect that you are more interested in the whole tweaking, gadget thing really.

 

[ellisdj]

While I agree with what you are saying to a certain point, I dont claim to have golden ears but I have set up a system that has destroyed the majority of what I have heard so far in my life

The sound can only come out as good as it goes in - thats a simple fact - doesnt matter whats at the end if garbage goes in garbage comes out.

I also dont agree that the speaker is most important thing - I think the room is - the room is the most influencial factor on the sound to a certain point. I dont feel I need to spend more on my speakers at all.

They are getting better and better all the time - I would rather spend the money on room acoustics so I get to fully hear the speaker and the system

I can tell you this for fact

I have heard Kef Reference off Chord Electronics at Bristol - sounded garbage bad room - my home sound destroys that

I have heard Kef Blades at bristol - sounded ok my home sound destroys that

I heard Quad speakers at bristol - my home sound destroys that

I have heard Monitor Audio GX200 off moon at bristol my sound at home is much better than that.

All above based on the rooms they were in predominantly but it doesnt change the facts - all dissapointing demos - there were other dissapoimtments ther as well arcam and others.

Kef was the only decent demo's - even that was only average really

I have not heard harbeth - I have read a lot about the philosophy - how the speaker layer music behind the speakers - thats all great, I am sure they are great speakers - In fact if I go the Graham Slee road show I will probably hear a set. I am sure they use Van damme speaker cable in them or he used to.

I have heard the WHF Reference 2 channel system into Dali Epicons - that sounded better than my system as home(better room better equipment) but I feel I am knocking in the door and in some ways going past this.

This is my benchmark for what I base my SQ at home against because most other demos I have had have been frankly dissapointing.

 

[chebby]

What's with all the destroying?

 

[lindsayt]

I know from experience that it's not easy to get good sound in hotel rooms at hi-fi shows. They're either bedrooms - too small and hardly any furniture. Or conference rooms - very large and unfurnished. You also get a lot of sound leakage from other rooms.

The conference rooms have the potential to be fine sounding rooms if they were full of furniture to cut down on the echoes. But it's not reasonable to expect anyone to take sofas, armchairs, coffee tables, bookcases, books, vinyl storage, thousands of records etc to a hi-fi show.

 

[matt49]

The sound can only come out as good as it goes in - thats a simple fact - doesnt matter whats at the end if garbage goes in garbage comes out.

The old GIGO mantra goes back to the analog-only days, and for vinyl replay it still makes a certain amount of sense. But assuming you have bit-perfect delivery of a CD-quality digital stream, it no longer makes any sense at all. Indeed it betrays a lack of understanding of how digital audio replay works.

Matt

 

[floyd droid]

What's with all the destroying?

Hidden in all that megawotsithighlytunedoptimisedihavenoideawhatitallis signature , is a laser blaster that detects inferior gear in a nano second and destroys it . There ya go Chebby, his home sound is actually a megaweapon , pah ! you are slipping mate normally you spot stuff like this in a trice.

 

[Covenanter]

What's with all the destroying?

Well he is from the Planet Zog and they do a lot of blasting there.

Chris

 

[ellisdj]

All the joke comments - strandard stuff - the demo rooms at Bristol are rubbish for the most part but it higlights the importance of that factor - the room

The system is only as good as the room its in - dealers and manufacturers dont harp on about it - they want your money for kit and rightly so and its exciting buying new kit - looking forward to firing it up for the first time. I am sad and get excited about new acoutic treatments turning up

My room at home is dreadful - and its a battle to get anything like decent sound in it - Its on going as well.

I am also far from it being perfect sound for me as well - but I enjoy working on it - I have found most of the upgrades I have made to the audio pc make the sound cleaner and cleaner - then it ats the point where the processor is adding the most noise to the sound - which I am sure is the case now thanks to its smps.

I would sound really great if it had a good quality LPSU in it .

 

[pauln]

All the joke comments - strandard stuff - the demo rooms at Bristol are rubbish for the most part but it higlights the importance of that factor - the room

The system is only as good as the room its in - dealers and manufacturers dont harp on about it - they want your money for kit and rightly so and its exciting buying new kit - looking forward to firing it up for the first time. I am sad and get excited about new acoutic treatments turning up

My room at home is dreadful - and its a battle to get anything like decent sound in it - Its on going as well.

I am also far from it being perfect sound for me as well - but I enjoy working on it - I have found most of the upgrades I have made to the audio pc make the sound cleaner and cleaner - then it ats the point where the processor is adding the most noise to the sound - which I am sure is the case now thanks to its smps.

I would sound really great if it had a good quality LPSU in it .

I prefer the warm analogue sound you get with MS-DOS

 

[ellisdj]

Standard comments again - have a read of this before you pass judgement on my comments

http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/

http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/computer-setup/

I have said this before - I sadly missed the room there but the CAD room won best sounding room at Bristol - not this year last year.

Says quite a bit about his Dac but also him using a computer for a digital transport and his optimisation of one - he would have been using JpLay as well

 

[pauln]

Standard comments again - have a read of this before you pass judgement on my comments

http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/

http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/computer-setup/

As has been said before - they want to sell you something!

 

[ellisdj]

He is not selling you anything - you can have his guide for free

Better still you can download scripts he has written that do it all for you - Again All FOR FREE !!!!!

Fair play he could easily sell what he has done and it would be worth the money- but he doesnt.

He lets you have it for free to get the best sound from your computer operation system Win 8.0 or 8.1 FOR FREE

Shows you didnt even look - its frustrating when people post without even consideration of what they are commenting about....