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Isolation some thoughts and measurements

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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I've been experimenting recently with isolation products. Namely isolation platforms from Pyle (akin to Auralex).

My listening room has a suspended floor with lounge underneath it. Speakers are 42kg each.

Now for the best part. I'm mostly interested in acoustically measured differences. This way I can objectively state whether there's been any change. This is the only way I can tell if these products actually do something.

I've measured speakers individually. Left channel is closer to the middle of the room. Right closer to side wall. Left channel was supposed to be the only channel I measured as expected the results to be replicated in another channel.

Measurements were taken with REW at two volume levels and each length of sweep. Without isolation, with, with isolation and mic position raised, with mic position raised and timbre boards to mitigate speaker being raised. All resulting in approximately 40-or so individual sweeps.

The results were most interesting.
 

insider9

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Left speaker was the first one to be measured and it was done more robustly. I only expected to measure one. The differences between putting timbre boards underneath and mitigating height difference are not worth a mention. So focusing only on straight No isolation vs Isolation comparison. Note that there's no smoothing, dsp and taken at usual listening postion. Also the new speaker position measures extremely poorly without DSP particuarly on the left speaker. Here goes BLUE - NO ISOLATION / YELLOW - ISOLATION

 

insider9

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Right channel wasn't measured as robustly but I decided to see if the differences seen during first set of measurements would translate to the other speaker. Methodology was similar. This time with a little smoothing applied (1/48) as masurements were taken only at low volume. BLUE - ISOLATION / YELLOW - NO ISOLATION So happens it's the other way round to Left channel

 

CnoEvil

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Aug 21, 2009
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Will you be discussing what you are hearing....and if it correlates with what you measured?
 

insider9

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As you can see the left channel (no smoothing) improved the dip at 131Hz by just over 10dB as well as well as others upto 300Hz.

However usign the same platform on the right speakers exacerbated bass issues making the dips 3dB worse... :(
 

insider9

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Genuinely baffled by my finding and shifting 42kg each speaker isn't easy. Particularly when I know it makes one channel measurably worse.

Question is would you use just one?
 

ellisdj

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did it affect the waterfall at all?
what you need to test is cabinet vibration does that increase or reduce and then I suppose distortion
 

CnoEvil

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insider9 said:
Genuinely baffled by my finding and shifting 42kg each speaker isn't easy. Particularly when I know it makes one channel measurably worse.

Question is would you use just one?
Here's what I did:

- Description post 4, 9 and 13 here: https://www.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/bens-hifi

- Photos post 35: https://www.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/bens-hifi?page=2
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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I have analysed the available data. I'm only bothered with cabinet vibration if it can be measured at listening position (hence heard). I'm not measuring earth quakes so don't care about seismographs :)

Yes, there are some differences to waterfall. Best to see them on Spectrogram (have a look on my Flickr https://flic.kr/s/aHsmeoF7PD ). But once again where one speaker measurably improves with this plartform the other one is worse.

It is most baffling and probably not the solution for me so will have to try something that works equally well on both.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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CnoEvil said:
insider9 said:
Genuinely baffled by my finding and shifting 42kg each speaker isn't easy. Particularly when I know it makes one channel measurably worse.

Question is would you use just one?
Here's what I did:

- Description post 4, 9 and 13 here: https://www.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/bens-hifi

- Photos post 35: https://www.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/bens-hifi?page=2
Thanks Cno. I remember reading about this but always worth refreshing my memory. I did consider Auralex. Pyle was available from Amazon so returns are easy and it looks like a good call.
 

CnoEvil

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Aug 21, 2009
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I want to know what it sounds like...and what subjective difference it apeears to have made....after you've finished dicking around, of course. *wink*
 

insider9

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Sure I'll have a listen tomorrow. Football tonight :) I purposely didn't listen yet as I'm sceptic using something that will make the performance worse. Then again if there's no improvement should I be looking at a different solution? Sure not all isolation is equal.
 

CnoEvil

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I knew somebody, whose system was in his bedroom, in the attic of his house. It was an acoustic nightmare. The only thing that worked was Track Audio Stands. Their isolation spikes are supposed to be very effective.

You should also keep an eye out for Ellisdj's review of the IsoAcoustic GAIA - and he's trying to get his hands on some Track Audio Isolation spikes at my request.

I think either of these solutions could well work better for you.
 

insider9

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I expect Gaia II to work in my system but I'm too cheap to for out £599 for a set. I'll mess around with the cheaper alternatives first and if none of them are good enough I will have no other choice than to get Gaias.
 

Blacksabbath25

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Sep 20, 2015
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insider9 said:
I expect Gaia II to work in my system but I'm too cheap to for out £599 for a set. I'll mess around with the cheaper alternatives first and if none of them are good enough I will have no other choice than to get Gaias.
i read that the Gaia 2 are £299 for a set of 4 so £600 for 2 sets in total *smile*
 

insider9

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Indeed, I class a set as what's needed for a pair of speakers so £598 to be exact. But the manufacturer classes a set as 4 which is fine if you want it for another componennt or just one speaker.

Sabbath, consider that you're thinkining about selling your A-S2100 for around £800 that's two sets of fancy legs or a lovely Yamaha amp... not exactly cheap is it? :) Hence my reluctance to go with them straight away (if at all).
 

Blacksabbath25

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Sep 20, 2015
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insider9 said:
Indeed, I class a set as what's needed for a pair of speakers so £598 to be exact. But the manufacturer classes a set as 4 which is fine if you want it for another componennt or just one speaker.

Sabbath, consider that you're thinkining about selling your A-S2100 for around £800 that's two sets of fancy legs or a lovely Yamaha amp... not exactly cheap is it? :) Hence my reluctance to go with them straight away (if at all).
well actually I was thinking of buying the Gaia 2s myself for my Dali’s but ideally would like to try before parting with £600 but do not like taking a risk on something like this without a bit of proof beforehand .

I understand stand why your looking at them as your got your setup upstairs but mines downstairs and I read that they can improve midrange but since owning my new amplifier the midrange has improved a lot more but going by the company’s info on there site it also improves you sound and makes the sound a lot tighter .

my concern was do they reduce the bass to much ? Or do they work as a product
 

CnoEvil

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Blacksabbath25 said:
well actually I was thinking of buying the Gaia 2s myself for my Dali’s but ideally would like to try before parting with £600 but do not like taking a risk on something like this without a bit of proof beforehand .

I understand stand why your looking at them as your got your setup upstairs but mines downstairs and I read that they can improve midrange but since owning my new amplifier the midrange has improved a lot more but going by the company’s info on there site it also improves you sound and makes the sound a lot tighter .

my concern was do they reduce the bass to much ? Or do they work as a product
If you want to "buy to try"...and return if not happy - Give Gary at Analogue Seduction a ring. I suspect he would be happy to help:

http://www.analogueseduction.net/isoacoustics/isoacoustics-gaia-ii-threaded-isolation-feet.html

If they do what what I think - they will improve the Bass - deeper/tighter/more detailed/less bloat/more tuneful/more articulate.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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Yes, I would expect the midrange to improve as well. Looking at Group Delay that's improved not just in bass but through mids too. Far too many measurements too discuss. I believe that well desingned product will make a big difference. Question is how much do you need to spend to get a well designed product?
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
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insider9 said:
Yes, I would expect the midrange to improve as well. Looking at Group Delay that's improved not just in bass but through mids too. Far too many measurements too discuss. I believe that well desingned product will make a big difference. Question is how much do you need to spend to get a well designed product?
well the other product on the market the Townsends and they are very expensive so £600 is cheap if you look at that way as long as they do what they say they do .

And there’s this A-B test https://youtu.be/h5cB_bqKBlc
 

CnoEvil

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Blacksabbath25 said:
well the other product on the market the Townsends and they are very expensive so £600 is cheap if you look at that way as long as they do what they say they do .

And there’s this A-B test https://youtu.be/h5cB_bqKBlc
There is also Track Audio Isolation feet - which are spikes with spike shoes. (It's an extra 100 Quid if you wand spikes with the GAIA)...which are a bit more expensive at 395GBP for 4 (I think they cope with most weight).

https://www.kronosav.com/collections/isolation/products/track-audio-isolation-foot-adaptor-kits
 

Blacksabbath25

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Sep 20, 2015
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The Gaia do look a lot better construction wise and in regards to weight I was thinking about that as my speakers are 34.8 kg so The Gaia 2s would be the ones I need but because of the weight of the speakers I wouldn’t of thought there would be much movement in the speakers and most speakers theses days are well put together with lots of bracings inside of a speaker .

but I kind of believe in the science of what they do as a product but it’s weather you can actually hear any improvement that my concern
 

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