is the hifi music av world now to complicated

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how many now find the the hifi-av-music downloads- all too much,
has the fun been taken out by over the top av amps over complicated computer downloads and just far to much technology to
learn to use, so whats your take on this, is it all just overkill or what.
 

6th.replicant

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Yes.

IMHO, the AV sector is too preoccupied with 3D and wifi and consequently ignoring pure picture quality (PQ). For example, no TV manufacturer has matched the all-round abilities of Pioneer's Kuros and the PQ of (2D) BDPs seems to have stagnated, seemingly only offering reduced cost and more features as each new generation emerges. And it's all very well offering reams of internet-based HD content, but in reality the majority of the UK struggles to get broadband that delivers much more than 3Mb.

The hi-fi world also seems preoccupied with wifi/streaming, internet radio and downloads (DLs) but not really offering any major advances on the humble old CD's sound quality (SQ). OK, so there're 24bit/96-192KHz DLs, but their availability is relatively limited, nor cheap - £20/?24/$32 for a 24bit/192KHz DL, anyone? - and IME there seems to be far too much tweaking/re-setting involved when playing hi-res DLs. All of which presents hours of fun for tech-enthusiasts and AV/hi-fi scribes but for the 'average punter' it's a hell of a faff. (And I'm damn sure I'm not alone in wishing I had a tenner for every time my wifi/network/router drops out.)

I've several friends who are passionate about music, appreciate decent SQ from their hi-fi - and are also aware of the CD's limitations re SQ. However, their eyes glaze over at the merest mention of streaming, DACs, hi-res DLs, NAS etc. And I know a fair few people who've contemplated a Uniti-type system but rapidly lose interest when they learn about the initial setup, need for firmware updates and general 'maintenance'. For many, life's too short for such 'demanding' gear - they just want plug -'n'-play, not to come home from working all day with a computer and then have to engage with a similar device to simply listen to their music.

In short, the digital music world is becoming more complex, without offering any tangible advances in SQ.

And IME there's a surprising number of non-techy music lovers who are asking why uncompressed Blu-ray audio-only discs are not being adopted as the hassle-free replacement for the Red Book CD. Buy a new CDP that also plays Blu-ray audio-only discs? Sure, why not? Buy a complex streaming device(s) that merely offers CD-quality sound and will also need IT-guru-level knowledge for initial setup and maintenance? Taxi!
 

songox

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6th.replicant absolutely have to agree with you... i couldnt even add anything u have put it all out there!
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Anonymous

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6th.replicant:Yes.

IMHO, the AV sector is too preoccupied with 3D and wifi and consequently ignoring pure picture quality (PQ). For example, no TV manufacturer has matched the all-round abilities of Pioneer's Kuros and the PQ of (2D) BDPs seems to have stagnated, seemingly only offering reduced cost and more features as each new generation emerges. And it's all very well offering reams of internet-based HD content, but in reality the majority of the UK struggles to get broadband that delivers much more than 3Mb.

The hi-fi world also seems preoccupied with wifi/streaming, internet radio and downloads (DLs) but not really offering any major advances on the humble old CD's sound quality (SQ). OK, so there're 24bit/96-192KHz DLs, but their availability is relatively limited, nor cheap - £20/?24/$32 for a 24bit/192KHz DL, anyone? - and IME there seems to be far too much tweaking/re-setting involved when playing hi-res DLs. All of which presents hours of fun for tech-enthusiasts and AV/hi-fi scribes but for the 'average punter' it's a hell of a faff. (And I'm damn sure I'm not alone in wishing I had a tenner for every time my wifi/network/router drops out.)

I've several friends who are passionate about music, appreciate decent SQ from their hi-fi - and are also aware of the CD's limitations re SQ. However, their eyes glaze over at the merest mention of streaming, DACs, hi-res DLs, NAS etc. And I know a fair few people who've contemplated a Uniti-type system but rapidly lose interest when they learn about the initial setup, need for firmware updates and general 'maintenance'. For many, life's too short for such 'demanding' gear - they just want plug -'n'-play, not to come home from working all day with a computer and then have to engage with a similar device to simply listen to their music.

In short, the digital music world is becoming more complex, without offering any tangible advances in SQ.

And IME there's a surprising number of non-techy music lovers who are asking why uncompressed Blu-ray audio-only discs are not being adopted as the hassle-free replacement for the Red Book CD. Buy a new CDP that also plays Blu-ray audio-only discs? Sure, why not? Buy a complex streaming device(s) that merely offers CD-quality sound and will also need IT-guru-level knowledge for initial setup and maintenance? Taxi! i agree with most of what you have writen
but my offsping and grandkids dont they think all technology out there is great fun and the more complicated it is the better so it looks like i wont win this one.
 

chebby

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It can all be as 'complicated' or as simple as you want it to be.

Plenty of options out there for everyone still.

If you want to just plug in a record player (or CD player or tuner) to an amplifier and some speakers, you can still do just that.

You can even get all-in-one units that contain everything you need (including the speakers) from the likes of Vita. How much simpler can things be?
 

jiggyjoe

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Its a shame the general public could not care less about sound quality, Its all about flicking through nice album covers and creating playlists.

what a shame you get so little content on SACD!!
 

Lee H

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In a word, no. Yes the set up can take a little bit of time, but when I get home tonight, I can press a few buttons on my phone and listen to any track I own and millions more that I don't. I don't have to clean lenses/carts, use anti-static cloths, dig through my CDs to find one I like etc. What is easier then pressing "All" then "Shuffle"?
 
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Anonymous

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I got fed up with my a/v system, always tweeking and adjusting settings, getting the spl meter out checking levels adjusting the sub etc etc.

went back to uncomplicated basics and love it!
 
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Anonymous

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I just plain ignore everything i dont need.

I have a 360 connected to my flatscreen and its all i need for movies and tv. Simple and works perfectly. Could i get better picture quality with a dedicated blueray player? yes ofcourse and in time ill go there but for now a good movie is just as good on this setup. A bad movie is still a bad movie even if the quality of the image would be better. Surround sound? no thank you. The tv is still "over there" and im perfectly happy with the sound comming from "over there" too. Not going to fill my living room with speakers.

Music is great from my simpe setup with either spotify via a cable from my dac or the old cd. Nothing complicated, just good sound. Sonos is good too but i would have been just as happy without it now that the inital gadget factor fun has gone.
 

TnA200

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6th.replicant

I agree with some of what you say. But I do enjoy the technology that is available to us to stream and enjoy music/video all over the house.

Complexity? Even as a tech fan I find sometimes the myriad of audio/video options a bit much. Just to let my mum enjoy her BluRay's she has to go through Menu options on the AV Receiver and then on the disc menu too. The highest quality should be standard and then the lower version optional. I can imagine that the majority of users would get put off from the technology aspects unless these devices get smarter and can figure out that 5.1 Audio is possible, HDMI is being used and the screen resolution supports the best VQ and provide the best VQ/SQ output possible. The newer devices are web linked via wifi/ethernet and should be able to query a database of other AV gear and know what is possible.

So technology has its advantages but it will be a while before it gets easier to use. We are still in the transitional phase i guess... I would imagine someone like Apple could make AV Receivers easier and smarter, but unfortunately they were the same ones who gave us 128kbps downloads and now tell us that 256kbps is good enough and don't even sell ALAC (lossless) to their customers, who are willing to pay. So raising the bar in SQ is also going to be a slow educational process.

Music SQ has been sacrificed for convenience. Sadly the majority of people are happy to go the mp3/aac route and not even bother looking into better SQ options. 24bit/96-192KHz is alien talk to them. I would happily buy online music if the SQ was raised to better than Redbook CD levels and compatible with my iPod/iPhone at a fair price. I bought a SACD player last year to enjoy better SQ than Redbook CD, and am happy to see that most new BluRay players seem to also offer SACD playback functionality. I think Sony was caught wrong footed as their competitors began to offer SACD playback and they did not, so now they do too. So perhaps a SACD revival is coming! I hope SQ triumphs as that is what music is about. Enjoying the music as the musicians original intent. VQ is only getting better with BluRay, thank goodness.

In the end, technology still has a distance still to go to learn and make our audio/video experience better/easier and to educate the masses to what good SQ and VQ is...

TnA200
 

hammill

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My "mother in law" bought a panasonic dvd/vhs recorder (against my advice). Two neighbours could not connect it up (I now have it working properly) but she still does not use the DVD for recording as it is too complicated for her, and it is only watched via HDMI if I am there to press the correct buttons. The people on this forum may be able to understand modern home AV (although we still get stuck sometimes) but for the average civilian it is far too complicated.
 

The_Lhc

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hammill:My "mother in law" bought a panasonic dvd/vhs recorder (against my advice). Two neighbours could not connect it up (I now have it working properly) but she still does not use the DVD for recording as it is too complicated for her,

In that I'd have to agree with her, my Dad bought a Philips DVD recorder, never used it as it was ridiculously difficult to record anything (I used to struggle to even switch the thing on), he then replaced it with a Panasonic DVD/HDD/VHS recorder and again, they never use it, it's just stupidly complicated, the only thing they can do with it is watch DVDs!

For that reason my mum has now agreed to let him get Sky+, that's how simple a PVR should be, no excuse for anyone else.
 

chebby

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I must be 'in sync' with Panasonic kit. I have used their VHS recorders, DVD + VHS recorders and DVD recorders for some 20 years now. I will be getting a Panasonic BD recorder too.

I guess it's just intuitive by now, due to familiarity. Nevertheless, I still read the instructions every time we get a new machine to see what has changed and I enjoy trying out a lot of the functions and options which - I admit - probably makes me a bit weird :)

All of these machines got handed on to our daughters over the years so they find them easy to operate as well.

I would have sympathy for anyone struggling to use these machines for the first time though.
 

Clare Newsome

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I once had a (highly intelligent and capable) flatmate who had to call me to find out how to turn the TV on. I'd gone out on the same day we acquired a new Philips CRT set that (in conjunction with our cable TV system) was simply not intuitive to use....
 

The_Lhc

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6th.replicant:Yes.

IMHO, the AV sector is too preoccupied with 3D and wifi and consequently ignoring pure picture quality (PQ).

Just because the option is there you don't have to use it, ignore the 3D, ignore the wifi, the "standard" functions are still there.

For example, no TV manufacturer has matched the all-round abilities of Pioneer's Kuros and the PQ of (2D) BDPs seems to have stagnated

Strange I don't recall any reviews along those lines, but you have to ask exactly how much better any new players can actually get.

The hi-fi world also seems preoccupied with wifi/streaming, internet radio and downloads (DLs) but not really offering any major advances on the humble old CD's sound quality (SQ).

Err, have you seen the sales figures for CD players? Why would anyone attempt to squeeze the last fraction of a percents performance from a 20 year old mature technology when, effectively, no-one is buying it anymore? It's only a couple of steps from a manufacturer trumpeting the sound quality of their new 8-track cassette player. If the manufacturers aren't developing CD any more it's only because they're following the market (and FYI, you are not the market, it's them, out there, that are the market and the big names are listening to them now), which has demonstrated it isn't really interested in CD players any more.

OK, so there're 24bit/96-192KHz DLs, but their availability is relatively limited, nor cheap - £20/?24/$32 for a 24bit/192KHz DL, anyone? - and IME there seems to be far too much tweaking/re-setting involved when playing hi-res DLs. All of which presents hours of fun for tech-enthusiasts and AV/hi-fi scribes but for the 'average punter' it's a hell of a faff.

It's no more or less of a faff than running a turntable and not many of us here complain about that. I have to do far more with my vinyl setup to listen to an album than I do with my streaming setup (which consists of picking up the remote and pressing play, basically).

(And I'm damn sure I'm not alone in wishing I had a tenner for every time my wifi/network/router drops out.)

This is not an question of being too complicated, it's the fact that the public decided that they prefered downloads long before the hi-fi industry realised which way things were going. If things appear too complicated it's simply because nobody's really figured out how to do this properly and they're all playing catch up (unlike CD which had a defined standard from the moment of release, computer based music has no such standard, so everyone is trying to pull together multiple formats in whatever way they think is best, imagine if CD wasn't standardised, with the data format and even the disc size left to the individual manufacturer, it would have been just as messy as CBM is now). Currently this new media format doesn't even have a standard name, downloading, streaming, computer based music, of course it's a mess, give it ten years though and you'll probably find people just have a player plugged into their amps that they use like any other source.

I've several friends who are passionate about music, appreciate decent SQ from their hi-fi - and are also aware of the CD's limitations re SQ. However, their eyes glaze over at the merest mention of streaming, DACs, hi-res DLs, NAS etc. And I know a fair few people who've contemplated a Uniti-type system but rapidly lose interest when they learn about the initial setup, need for firmware updates and general 'maintenance'. For many, life's too short for such 'demanding' gear - they just want plug -'n'-play, not to come home from working all day with a computer and then have to engage with a similar device to simply listen to their music.

Well they'll have to wait then, or carry on buying CDs until things get simpler, which they will.

In short, the digital music world is becoming more complex, without offering any tangible advances in SQ.

And IME there's a surprising number of non-techy music lovers who are asking why uncompressed Blu-ray audio-only discs are not being adopted as the hassle-free replacement for the Red Book CD.

No, there's actually a vanishingly small number of people asking for that, it's just most of them happen to be asking here and on other forums, the "general public" (remember them, they're the ones that keep the hardware makers in business and you aren't a member of that group, you're an audiophile, you're different and you're a minority) don't care, the general public aren't even asking for CD quality downloads because they can't tell the difference, the general public wouldn't have cared if CDs were compressed, as long as they were easier to handle than vinyl records (remember how popular cassettes were and most people weren't playing them on Nakamichi Dragons but the public didn't care).
 

Andy Clough

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I've had numerous phone calls/texts from home when I've been away asking "How do I turn the **** TV on?" Solution: a Harmony One remote pre-programmed with "Watch TV", "Watch Blu-ray". Sorted!
 

Lee H

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I renamed all the inputs, "Sonos", "Wii", "Sky" etc. This makes it easier when I'm not at home for anyone not familiar with the system.
 

Paul.

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I still don't get why I have to hold my TV remotes power button on for two seconds or more to get it to turn on, yet if I tap anything on the numberpad it switches on anyway? I swear they don't actually think about their key combinations.
 

Mr Morph

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6th.replicant:For many, life's too short for such 'demanding' gear - they just want plug -'n'-play, not to come home from working all day with a computer and then have to engage with a similar device to simply listen to their music. In short, the digital music world is becoming more complex, without offering any tangible advances in SQ.

Yeah, I have to agree with this! At the end of the day I just want to come home and relax, and the last thing I want to see is a computer in my hi-fi. And also think that the slant on today's hi-fi is geared more towards the techy, and not the audiophile.
 

chebby

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Mr Morph:And also think that the slant on today's hi-fi is geared more towards the techy...

Sometimes it seems geared more towards the tetchy (given the evidence of many forum debates).
 

The_Lhc

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Mr Morph:
6th.replicant:For many, life's too short for such 'demanding' gear - they just want plug -'n'-play, not to come home from working all day with a computer and then have to engage with a similar device to simply listen to their music. In short, the digital music world is becoming more complex, without offering any tangible advances in SQ.

Yeah, I have to agree with this! At the end of the day I just want to come home and relax, and the last thing I want to see is a computer in my hi-fi.

And you don't need one, I don't have a computer in my streaming set up.

And also think that the slant on today's hi-fi is geared more towards the techy, and not the audiophile.

Given the number of high-end streamers coming from the "audiophile" manufacturers I'd have to disagree with that.

There is a level of complexity in today's systems that will need to be toned down before mainstream acceptance is gained, that's true, but that complexity is there because 1) these systems are very new and the makers haven't figured out to make them "easy" and 2) the systems are attempting to do so much more than a simple one-disc CD player can do. The first is a matter of learning on the part of the manufacturers (and users to a certain extent), the second is largely unavoidable if you want the option of being able to access all of your media, anywhere, at any time.
 

ESP2009

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Coming at the subject from a slightly different angle, the complication for me is the overwhelming choice on offer. We are increasingly bombarded with 'new and improved' versions of components, or variations on a theme. It becomes so difficult and time-consuming to sort the wheat from the chaff.

It's always nice to have a choice, but these days (it may be churlish of me to say it) there is simply too much!
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BenLaw

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ESP2009:

It's always nice to have a choice, but these days (it may be churlish of me to say it) there is simply too much!
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If only a few more of those pesky hifi companies would go out of business!
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