Interconnect

[keeper of the quays]

Forgive me Keeper, I know I can be hard work, but I genuinely can't get over the £6,000 cost of your interconnect. I note on another post that you use a Cambridge 540p phono stage which obviously needs a cable either side of it. I think my brain melted at that point - surely you don't have £12,000 of cables hanging off a £50 phono stage?

well? First off my esteemed friend the hifi guru gave them to me..he was a big wig in the hifi industry and got a lot of bits of kit to evaluate..he in fact gave me three sets of LFD interconnects..top of range, middle of range and cheap ones (£170 pair) he also gave me a set of LFD speaker cables too! I do have a 540p but yes my 640p with my Linn..im now getting near trev c territory...my friend uses a 640p as a back up with his SME turntable and koetsu cartridge..when his boutique valve phono stage needs a service..he says they are very good? This into 30k approx turntable, 5k cart 7k phono stage and 50k boutique Japanese valve amp...so? Looks like 640p pretty good! I won't mention his speakers...but they are 1930s made with modern single drivers from Germany handmade..i can never hope to emulate the sound..all I can say the feeling of the music is so intense it's a little frightening....theres nothing can compare and all of us here are no where near to that sound..my esteemed friend..wont have a cd in the house it's all vinyl or reel to reel...he is a dude..makes a horrible cup of tea though..really stewed! Lol...so in answer to your question my cables are over specified for my equipment! But they sound great and if I had a krell amp? Who knows what that sound would be..ribbon cables notwithstanding..

Ps your not hard work..to quote 'his mind is not for rent to any god or government ' I think you know this quote..is cool..you made short work of Trev c...brilliant! I think he realised you were having none of his nonsense and I think he gave up and scuttled away! Lol...bro you rock!

I realised the truth of that old expression "you can't fix stupid" which is why I'm no longer trying!

ah ok Trev..honourable withdraw then? Any chance of playing another tune on your penny flute? What about a review of your leak tuner? Or maybe a indepth review of your Waltham music centre? Lol...did you keep the same speakers? Or did you push the boat (oracle)out and go for some top notch akai ones? Haha

I have the Leak tuner, currently I'm using a Sony budget amp with remote, A Pioneer CD recorder, A Philips 850 mk II CD player, an LG bluray, B&W 601 speakers, a BK sub and an antimode. Freebie interconnects and blue foo ones that I was given, Speaker cables are 2 runs of 79 strand in parallel. The tuner is the best sounding one I've heard.

years ago I had a leak stereo twenty and the leak tuner was very good I remember? Believe it was mono! Funny thing is? My little t amp blows it out of the water! All that engineering all those valves...all that metal!!! And a tripath chip wins hands down...mad is the modern world!

Think I solved the puzzle of your inability to hear dynamics and timing on your hifi? It's your speakers! They £350 new? Lol...did you want to borrow my dynaudio 40s? They much better..ill throw in some of my interconnects..ten times better than yours..and I'll chuck in some qed silver anniversary cables for the speakers..what do you think? Your stuff is ok..cd player is a good one! Not sure bout amp? Did you want to use my Sony xb940 amp? Then you'll be more cheerful..

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

Hi there I'm looking for a new interconnect ive got a musical fidelity x ray and x a1 amp..I'm looking at the chord c line or qed reference audio 40..as both now same price which would be better or is there others to look at..love to hear from you guys thanks matt

Go for those with the most beautiful look and with a correct dimentionned cross section. If the cable is correctly made, there is nothing to hear with the exception of a differently high volume at the end.

 

[ellisdj]

I'll chuck in some qed silver anniversary cables for the speakers..what do you think?

I was happy until you wrote that - that is not how you convince someone like TrevC cables makes a positive difference lol

Think you might need something a little better than that - I have owned loads of QED SA over the years, glad I dont anymore

 

[keeper of the quays]

 I'll chuck in some qed silver anniversary cables for the speakers..what do you think? 

I was happy until you wrote that - that is not how you convince someone like TrevC cables makes a positive difference lol 

Think you might need something a little better than that - I have owned loads of QED SA over the years, glad I dont anymore

Very good speaker cable for the money! If your ever near Hastings come and listen to my amp I made to go with my iPod touch 4..i use silver anniversary cables with that! If your jaw doesn't drop with astonishment? At the sound? I'll eat my hat! You tube music thru iPod through my amp into my speakers using sa cable..better than hi res? Flac, all of them? Come and have a listen? Let your ears decide?

 

[TomSawyer]

I agree, its nice to have someone here (tomsawyer) who has enough understanding to go toe to toe with people who think they are right,

It's probably worth saying that I'm not out to argue with anyone, or right any wrongs. For me, as soon as you think you know everything, you stop learning so I try not to state a position but rather listen to others and challenge if it doesn't seem right. No-one's ever learned anything by listening to their own voice as they say.

Equally, don't confuse my child-like questioning with any kind of knowledge.

What I didn't agree with was Trev's "coat-hanger" contention but in later posts he rowed back to "properly made cables" (or words to that effect) and really what I was questioning was that a piece of unscreened steel could perform as well as coax copper.

So I probably agree with Trev's later more balanced view on cables. For now, at least, I'm always ready to be persuaded otherwise.

As for Dave's views on double-blind testing, I also agree with them. I think there's been some unfortunate exchanges here where Dave has been arguing the science of the methodology and others have interpreted this as meaning nothing else is of value whereas of course, to paraphrase some of the replies, if you get pleasure from something (like swapping cables or listening tests without strict controls) there's inherent value in that. I suspect it was actually violent agreement but viewed on one hand through the science and on the other through the philosophy of the subject.

 

[davedotco]

Forgive me Keeper, I know I can be hard work, but I genuinely can't get over the £6,000 cost of your interconnect. I note on another post that you use a Cambridge 540p phono stage which obviously needs a cable either side of it. I think my brain melted at that point - surely you don't have £12,000 of cables hanging off a £50 phono stage?

well? First off my esteemed friend the hifi guru gave them to me..he was a big wig in the hifi industry and got a lot of bits of kit to evaluate..he in fact gave me three sets of LFD interconnects..top of range, middle of range and cheap ones (£170 pair) he also gave me a set of LFD speaker cables too! I do have a 540p but yes my 640p with my Linn..im now getting near trev c territory...my friend uses a 640p as a back up with his SME turntable and koetsu cartridge..when his boutique valve phono stage needs a service..he says they are very good? This into 30k approx turntable, 5k cart 7k phono stage and 50k boutique Japanese valve amp...so? Looks like 640p pretty good! I won't mention his speakers...but they are 1930s made with modern single drivers from Germany handmade..i can never hope to emulate the sound..all I can say the feeling of the music is so intense it's a little frightening....theres nothing can compare and all of us here are no where near to that sound..my esteemed friend..wont have a cd in the house it's all vinyl or reel to reel...he is a dude..makes a horrible cup of tea though..really stewed! Lol...so in answer to your question my cables are over specified for my equipment! But they sound great and if I had a krell amp? Who knows what that sound would be..ribbon cables notwithstanding..

Ps your not hard work..to quote 'his mind is not for rent to any god or government ' I think you know this quote..is cool..you made short work of Trev c...brilliant! I think he realised you were having none of his nonsense and I think he gave up and scuttled away! Lol...bro you rock!

I agree, its nice to have someone here (tomsawyer) who has enough understanding to go toe to toe with people who think they are right, when I don't believe they are. I used to have a set of £30 interconnects that I thought would be an upgrade, but we're the opposite. In a £400 total system, I could really hear a difference that wasn't to my liking. They eventually went in the bin. Now, I am positive, that in a blind test I could tell the difference between those cables and others, that would be statistically significant. I'd guess I could tell probably 7/10 times, or more. And I won't be told otherwise. I'm stupid too, but not completely, and have been aware of expectation bias all my adult life (20+ years) and I believe it doesn't take much to be aware of this, and filter some of it out, that it what intelligence enables. Now, I am also aware that some people probably won't be able to do this.

Dave's answer to my question regarding what somebody said about choosing HiFi sighted, I feel doesn't satisfy me. Choosing a HiFi, be it an amp or speakers, sighted, I think most of us appreciate we can hear differences and make decisions on which is better. So even with expectation bias, the differences are big enough to be heard, and we can make a decision on which is best. So, with this basic principle, we can move it onto cables, yea, there is expectation bias, but sometimes the differences are still audible.

I do also realise from my experience of interconnects at under £100, they do sound very similar. And sometimes any differences we hear can be imagined, due to external experiences such as mood, temperature, air pressure, lighting, colour of the carpet, the list goes on and on.

Your comments on cables are sensible, they didn't work for you and you binned them...*good* Sometimes people (not you) use such experiences to draw conclusions that they really shouldn't, effectively saying that all £30 cables are sh!te and anyone who can't hear that is deaf, has a carp system or worse. (i'm exaggerating slightely, but not by much)

As I said, choosing your setup sighted is noemal, it actually allows you to indulge your preferences and end up with a system that works for you, it doesn't matter if it does not work for someone else, that is largely irrelevant.

We all have our biases and expectations, allow them into your decision making process and you will, more likely than not, enjoy your setup more.

 

[radiorog]

I agree, its nice to have someone here (tomsawyer) who has enough understanding to go toe to toe with people who think they are right,

It's probably worth saying that I'm not out to argue with anyone, or right any wrongs. For me, as soon as you think you know everything, you stop learning so I try not to state a position but rather listen to others and challenge if it doesn't seem right. No-one's ever learned anything by listening to their own voice as they say.

Equally, don't confuse my child-like questioning with any kind of knowledge.

What I didn't agree with was Trev's "coat-hanger" contention but in later posts he rowed back to "properly made cables" (or words to that effect) and really what I was questioning was that a piece of unscreened steel could perform as well as coax copper.

So I probably agree with Trev's later more balanced view on cables. For now, at least, I'm always ready to be persuaded otherwise.

As for Dave's views on double-blind testing, I also agree with them. I think there's been some unfortunate exchanges here where Dave has been arguing the science of the methodology and others have interpreted this as meaning nothing else is of value whereas of course, to paraphrase some of the replies, if you get pleasure from something (like swapping cables or listening tests without strict controls) there's inherent value in that. I suspect it was actually violent agreement but viewed on one hand through the science and on the other through the philosophy of the subject.

Fair dos. I know you're not here just to argue, I can't think of anyone who is here for that. But I'm sure there is something to be said for interconnects, its prob already been said tho. A thousand times.

 

[Erocia]

Can't comment on the chord cable, I have the qed cable, very good indeed, balanced and relatively neutral, upgraded from the atlas equator mk 3.
It's a clear step up.

 

[lindsayt]

]well? First off my esteemed friend the hifi guru gave them to me..he was a big wig in the hifi industry and got a lot of bits of kit to evaluate..he in fact gave me three sets of LFD interconnects..top of range, middle of range and cheap ones (£170 pair) he also gave me a set of LFD speaker cables too! I do have a 540p but yes my 640p with my Linn..im now getting near trev c territory...my friend uses a 640p as a back up with his SME turntable and koetsu cartridge..when his boutique valve phono stage needs a service..he says they are very good? This into 30k approx turntable, 5k cart 7k phono stage and 50k boutique Japanese valve amp...so? Looks like 640p pretty good! I won't mention his speakers...but they are 1930s made with modern single drivers from Germany handmade..i can never hope to emulate the sound..all I can say the feeling of the music is so intense it's a little frightening....theres nothing can compare and all of us here are no where near to that sound..my esteemed friend..wont have a cd in the house it's all vinyl or reel to reel...he is a dude..makes a horrible cup of tea though..really stewed! Lol...so in answer to your question my cables are over specified for my equipment! But they sound great and if I had a krell amp? Who knows what that sound would be..ribbon cables notwithstanding..

There's been some bold statements in this thread.

I think a SME / Koetsu / single driver system would be quite easily beatable in certain key respects.

There's really no big deal about putting together a World Class system. For example, I heard 4 at Scalford this year.

 

[keeper of the quays]

]well? First off my esteemed friend the hifi guru gave them to me..he was a big wig in the hifi industry and got a lot of bits of kit to evaluate..he in fact gave me three sets of LFD interconnects..top of range, middle of range and cheap ones (£170 pair) he also gave me a set of LFD speaker cables too! I do have a 540p but yes my 640p with my Linn..im now getting near trev c territory...my friend uses a 640p as a back up with his SME turntable and koetsu cartridge..when his boutique valve phono stage needs a service..he says they are very good? This into 30k approx turntable, 5k cart 7k phono stage and 50k boutique Japanese valve amp...so? Looks like 640p pretty good! I won't mention his speakers...but they are 1930s made with modern single drivers from Germany handmade..i can never hope to emulate the sound..all I can say the feeling of the music is so intense it's a little frightening....theres nothing can compare and all of us here are no where near to that sound..my esteemed friend..wont have a cd in the house it's all vinyl or reel to reel...he is a dude..makes a horrible cup of tea though..really stewed! Lol...so in answer to your question my cables are over specified for my equipment! But they sound great and if I had a krell amp? Who knows what that sound would be..ribbon cables notwithstanding..

There's been some bold statements in this thread.

I think a SME / Koetsu / single driver system would be quite easily beatable in certain key respects.

There's really no big deal about putting together a World Class system. For example, I heard 4 at Scalford this year.

Bold statement? Maybe..the speakers my friend has are nothing that you would of heard of before..sorry if that sounds arrogant, it's not meant to be..only five pairs of these in the world! The only thing I can find wrong is the music is so intense that it certainly isn't for casual listening! When you listen to a symphony? At the end you need a break! Lol...Ps my views seem a bit of a waste of words in some respects? As you will never hear them sadly..maybe if you come down to Hastings I'll ask him if you can have a listen? Then you will see or hear what I mean..it's nothing like you will have heard before...(of course I don't know what you have heard before? But I'm 100% certain you won't have heard these speakers..) if I seem to be bigging myself up on the supposed quality's of my friends speakers it's not my intention..cheers

 

[andyjm]

What I didn't agree with was Trev's "coat-hanger" contention but in later posts he rowed back to "properly made cables" (or words to that effect) and really what I was questioning was that a piece of unscreened steel could perform as well as coax copper.

Tom,

Forums like this give the impression that cables and interconnects are all a black art, and no one fully understands them. This view is reinforced by the marketing departments of cable manufactures who have a vested interest in maintaining the mystique.

This is claptrap. The conduction of AC signals along conductors has been well understood for over 100 years.

Not wishing to be inflamatory, while the engineering community understand and can model the effects of different cables, very few who post on here can. It is only basic circuit theory with a bit of transmission line fundamentals thrown in, but if you haven't been exposed to it, then it might as well be greek.

I deliberately simplify the arguments I make. I regularly bang on that all decent, well made, properly specified cables sound the same. This statement is a gross simplification, but is generally true for home audio with relatively short (a few metres at most) cable runs.

It doesn't mean that the specifications don't matter - they most certainly do. It also doesn't mean that things aren't more a lot more complicated for long runs of cable, or high loads, or noisy conditions.

Baseband audio (0-20Khz) is pretty benign stuff, and generally home HiFi systems are pretty insensitive to cable choice. There are a couple of wrinkles though. Cables have to be considered as part of a system, they don't have a life of their own. They form a circuit with the source (which has its own requirements) and the sink (which also has its own requirements). In the case of speaker cable, the source (amp) is active, and has a very low impedance. The same is true of the sink (speaker). Given these extremely low impedances, a bit of maths will show that the only parameter that makes any difference for speaker cable is the cable's resistance and that is a function of size and length. Keep the cables short and fat, and that is the best you can do.

Line level interconnects are a bit of a mess. In an ideal world you would impedance match the source and sink impedance to the characteristic impedance of the cable. This is where the '110 ohms' and '75 ohms' comes from you see bandied around for cables. This matters if you want to run signals a long way, or at high frequencies. Home audio uses line level sources with low impedance, and line level sinks with high impedance. Not ideal, but for baseband audio signals run a few metres, this doesn't really matter. Generally, well screened line level interconnects with low inter-conductor capacitance are the best you can do.

As for the coathanger, it all depends. BT run unscreened audio leads for miles without a problem, and that unsheilded Cat5 in the back of your PC is transferring data at gigabit speeds. In a relatively (electrically) quiet home environment, if the coathangers (you would need two - signal and earth) were kept away from mains cables and the boxes were only a coathangers width apart, you could probably get away with using a coat hanger as a line level interconnect without any ill effects.

 

[keeper of the quays]

What I didn't agree with was Trev's "coat-hanger" contention but in later posts he rowed back to "properly made cables" (or words to that effect) and really what I was questioning was that a piece of unscreened steel could perform as well as coax copper.

Tom,

Forums like this give the impression that cables and interconnects are all a black art, and no one fully understands them.  This view is reinforced by the marketing departments of cable manufactures who have a vested interest in maintaining the mystique. 

This is claptrap.  The conduction of AC signals along conductors has been well understood for over 100 years.

Not wishing to be inflamatory, while the engineering community understand and can model the effects of different cables, very few who post on here can. It is only basic circuit theory with a bit of transmission line fundamentals thrown in, but if you haven't been exposed to it, then it might as well be  greek.  

I deliberately simplify the arguments I make. I regularly bang on that all decent, well made, properly specified cables sound the same. This statement is a gross simplification, but is generally true for home audio with relatively short (a few metres at most) cable runs.

It doesn't mean that the specifications don't matter - they most certainly do. It also doesn't mean that things aren't more a lot more complicated for long runs of cable, or high loads, or noisy conditions.

Baseband audio (0-20Khz) is pretty benign stuff, and generally home HiFi systems are pretty insensitive to cable choice. There are a couple of wrinkles though.  Cables have to be considered as part of a system, they don't have a life of their own. They form a circuit with the source (which has its own requirements) and the sink (which also has its own requirements).  In the case of speaker cable, the source (amp) is active, and has a very low impedance. The same is true of the sink (speaker). Given these extremely low impedances, a bit of maths will show that the only parameter that makes any difference for speaker cable is the cable's resistance and that is a function of size and length. Keep the cables short and fat, and that is the best you can do.

Line level interconnects are a bit of a mess.  In an ideal world you would impedance match the source and sink impedance to the characteristic impedance of the cable. This is where the '110 ohms' and '75 ohms' comes from you see bandied around for cables.  This matters if you want to run signals a long way, or at high frequencies. Home audio uses line level sources with low impedance, and line level sinks with high impedance.  Not ideal, but for baseband audio signals run a few metres, this doesn't really matter. Generally, well screened line level interconnects with low inter-conductor capacitance are the best you can do. 

As for the coathanger, it all depends. BT run unscreened audio leads for miles without a problem, and that unsheilded Cat5 in the back of your PC is transferring data at gigabit speeds.  In a relatively (electrically) quiet home environment, if the coathangers (you would need two - signal and earth) were kept away from mains cables and the boxes were only a coathangers width apart, you could probably get away with using a coat hanger as a line level interconnect without any ill effects. 

 

 

well make up a pair of coathanger interconnects, let us know what it sounds like? I could do with a laugh! I'm assuming the with 'no I'll effects' is a caveat..because it may work but it's sounds really bad! Or maybe it will sound really good? I have a suspicion it'd going to sound horrible! But I'm just a cynic..lol

 

[BigH]

Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_2CdWr-sI

 

[radiorog]

Forgive me Keeper, I know I can be hard work, but I genuinely can't get over the £6,000 cost of your interconnect. I note on another post that you use a Cambridge 540p phono stage which obviously needs a cable either side of it. I think my brain melted at that point - surely you don't have £12,000 of cables hanging off a £50 phono stage?

well? First off my esteemed friend the hifi guru gave them to me..he was a big wig in the hifi industry and got a lot of bits of kit to evaluate..he in fact gave me three sets of LFD interconnects..top of range, middle of range and cheap ones (£170 pair) he also gave me a set of LFD speaker cables too! I do have a 540p but yes my 640p with my Linn..im now getting near trev c territory...my friend uses a 640p as a back up with his SME turntable and koetsu cartridge..when his boutique valve phono stage needs a service..he says they are very good? This into 30k approx turntable, 5k cart 7k phono stage and 50k boutique Japanese valve amp...so? Looks like 640p pretty good! I won't mention his speakers...but they are 1930s made with modern single drivers from Germany handmade..i can never hope to emulate the sound..all I can say the feeling of the music is so intense it's a little frightening....theres nothing can compare and all of us here are no where near to that sound..my esteemed friend..wont have a cd in the house it's all vinyl or reel to reel...he is a dude..makes a horrible cup of tea though..really stewed! Lol...so in answer to your question my cables are over specified for my equipment! But they sound great and if I had a krell amp? Who knows what that sound would be..ribbon cables notwithstanding..

Ps your not hard work..to quote 'his mind is not for rent to any god or government ' I think you know this quote..is cool..you made short work of Trev c...brilliant! I think he realised you were having none of his nonsense and I think he gave up and scuttled away! Lol...bro you rock!

I agree, its nice to have someone here (tomsawyer) who has enough understanding to go toe to toe with people who think they are right, when I don't believe they are. I used to have a set of £30 interconnects that I thought would be an upgrade, but we're the opposite. In a £400 total system, I could really hear a difference that wasn't to my liking. They eventually went in the bin. Now, I am positive, that in a blind test I could tell the difference between those cables and others, that would be statistically significant. I'd guess I could tell probably 7/10 times, or more. And I won't be told otherwise. I'm stupid too, but not completely, and have been aware of expectation bias all my adult life (20+ years) and I believe it doesn't take much to be aware of this, and filter some of it out, that it what intelligence enables. Now, I am also aware that some people probably won't be able to do this.

Dave's answer to my question regarding what somebody said about choosing HiFi sighted, I feel doesn't satisfy me. Choosing a HiFi, be it an amp or speakers, sighted, I think most of us appreciate we can hear differences and make decisions on which is better. So even with expectation bias, the differences are big enough to be heard, and we can make a decision on which is best. So, with this basic principle, we can move it onto cables, yea, there is expectation bias, but sometimes the differences are still audible.

I do also realise from my experience of interconnects at under £100, they do sound very similar. And sometimes any differences we hear can be imagined, due to external experiences such as mood, temperature, air pressure, lighting, colour of the carpet, the list goes on and on.

Your comments on cables are sensible, they didn't work for you and you binned them...*good* Sometimes people (not you) use such experiences to draw conclusions that they really shouldn't, effectively saying that all £30 cables are sh!te and anyone who can't hear that is deaf, has a carp system or worse. (i'm exaggerating slightely, but not by much)

As I said, choosing your setup sighted is noemal, it actually allows you to indulge your preferences and end up with a system that works for you, it doesn't matter if it does not work for someone else, that is largely irrelevant.

We all have our biases and expectations, allow them into your decision making process and you will, more likely than not, enjoy your setup more.

I agree, expectation bias effects us all. But I also think maybe some of it can be observed and removed when auditioning. No data on this, just an idea.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_2CdWr-sI

The differences in the mesures are astonishing.

 

[BigH]

Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_2CdWr-sI

The differences in the mesures are astonishing.

Note these have been run through 11 times.

 

[keeper of the quays]

Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_2CdWr-sI

 

just watched it, mmm? So I just removed my flash interconnects from power amp to pre and changed them for a £20 Belkin pure Av interconnect...and surprisingly they sounded better than i expected..i listened to some Irish folk music..to the untrained ear? You might say not much difference..then I went back to my flash interconnects..much better? But this is the big but! You wouldn't hear those differences casually listening..you need to understand the complexity of rhythms..and if you can't hear that in the first place due to your silly notions that cables are all similar..its a waste of time for you lot with your cheap as chips cables proudly exclaiming us who have pricey cables are stupid? I'm not saying you have to spend nuts money..to appreciate the timing and rhythm which a lot of you are clearly missing out on..i heard a difference..which was looking into the music as opposed to just listening to it? There is a interconnect which uses solid silver wires..my friend uses it to very good effect! It's a £100 a pair (one metre) definitely worth trying as you will hear a difference..whether you think it's worth £80 more than a £20 interconnect that's up to you!

 

[TrevC]

Forgive me Keeper, I know I can be hard work, but I genuinely can't get over the £6,000 cost of your interconnect. I note on another post that you use a Cambridge 540p phono stage which obviously needs a cable either side of it. I think my brain melted at that point - surely you don't have £12,000 of cables hanging off a £50 phono stage?

well? First off my esteemed friend the hifi guru gave them to me..he was a big wig in the hifi industry and got a lot of bits of kit to evaluate..he in fact gave me three sets of LFD interconnects..top of range, middle of range and cheap ones (£170 pair) he also gave me a set of LFD speaker cables too! I do have a 540p but yes my 640p with my Linn..im now getting near trev c territory...my friend uses a 640p as a back up with his SME turntable and koetsu cartridge..when his boutique valve phono stage needs a service..he says they are very good? This into 30k approx turntable, 5k cart 7k phono stage and 50k boutique Japanese valve amp...so? Looks like 640p pretty good! I won't mention his speakers...but they are 1930s made with modern single drivers from Germany handmade..i can never hope to emulate the sound..all I can say the feeling of the music is so intense it's a little frightening....theres nothing can compare and all of us here are no where near to that sound..my esteemed friend..wont have a cd in the house it's all vinyl or reel to reel...he is a dude..makes a horrible cup of tea though..really stewed! Lol...so in answer to your question my cables are over specified for my equipment! But they sound great and if I had a krell amp? Who knows what that sound would be..ribbon cables notwithstanding..

Ps your not hard work..to quote 'his mind is not for rent to any god or government ' I think you know this quote..is cool..you made short work of Trev c...brilliant! I think he realised you were having none of his nonsense and I think he gave up and scuttled away! Lol...bro you rock!

I realised the truth of that old expression "you can't fix stupid" which is why I'm no longer trying!

ah ok Trev..honourable withdraw then? Any chance of playing another tune on your penny flute? What about a review of your leak tuner? Or maybe a indepth review of your Waltham music centre? Lol...did you keep the same speakers? Or did you push the boat (oracle)out and go for some top notch akai ones? Haha

I have the Leak tuner, currently I'm using a Sony budget amp with remote, A Pioneer CD recorder, A Philips 850 mk II CD player, an LG bluray, B&W 601 speakers, a BK sub and an antimode. Freebie interconnects and blue foo ones that I was given, Speaker cables are 2 runs of 79 strand in parallel. The tuner is the best sounding one I've heard.

years ago I had a leak stereo twenty and the leak tuner was very good I remember? Believe it was mono! Funny thing is? My little t amp blows it out of the water! All that engineering all those valves...all that metal!!! And a tripath chip wins hands down...mad is the modern world!

Think I solved the puzzle of your inability to hear dynamics and timing on your hifi? It's your speakers! They £350 new? Lol...did you want to borrow my dynaudio 40s? They much better..ill throw in some of my interconnects..ten times better than yours..and I'll chuck in some qed silver anniversary cables for the speakers..what do you think? Your stuff is ok..cd player is a good one! Not sure bout amp? Did you want to use my Sony xb940 amp? Then you'll be more cheerful..

I like the B&Ws thanks. The only department where they are deficient is in the bass, and that has been addressed by the sub. The cables won't make any difference, I only use short runs.

 

[BigH]

Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_2CdWr-sI

just watched it, mmm? So I just removed my flash interconnects from power amp to pre and changed them for a £20 Belkin pure Av interconnect...and surprisingly they sounded better than i expected..i listened to some Irish folk music..to the untrained ear? You might say not much difference..then I went back to my flash interconnects..much better? But this is the big but! You wouldn't hear those differences casually listening..you need to understand the complexity of rhythms..and if you can't hear that in the first place due to your silly notions that cables are all similar..its a waste of time for you lot with your cheap as chips cables proudly exclaiming us who have pricey cables are stupid? I'm not saying you have to spend nuts money..to appreciate the timing and rhythm which a lot of you are clearly missing out on..i heard a difference..which was looking into the music as opposed to just listening to it? There is a interconnect which uses solid silver wires..my friend uses it to very good effect! It's a £100 a pair (one metre) definitely worth trying as you will hear a difference..whether you think it's worth £80 more than a £20 interconnect that's up to you!

Maybe you need them in your system?

 

[keeper of the quays]

Forgive me Keeper, I know I can be hard work, but I genuinely can't get over the £6,000 cost of your interconnect. I note on another post that you use a Cambridge 540p phono stage which obviously needs a cable either side of it. I think my brain melted at that point - surely you don't have £12,000 of cables hanging off a £50 phono stage?

well? First off my esteemed friend the hifi guru gave them to me..he was a big wig in the hifi industry and got a lot of bits of kit to evaluate..he in fact gave me three sets of LFD interconnects..top of range, middle of range and cheap ones (£170 pair) he also gave me a set of LFD speaker cables too! I do have a 540p but yes my 640p with my Linn..im now getting near trev c territory...my friend uses a 640p as a back up with his SME turntable and koetsu cartridge..when his boutique valve phono stage needs a service..he says they are very good? This into 30k approx turntable, 5k cart 7k phono stage and 50k boutique Japanese valve amp...so? Looks like 640p pretty good! I won't mention his speakers...but they are 1930s made with modern single drivers from Germany handmade..i can never hope to emulate the sound..all I can say the feeling of the music is so intense it's a little frightening....theres nothing can compare and all of us here are no where near to that sound..my esteemed friend..wont have a cd in the house it's all vinyl or reel to reel...he is a dude..makes a horrible cup of tea though..really stewed! Lol...so in answer to your question my cables are over specified for my equipment! But they sound great and if I had a krell amp? Who knows what that sound would be..ribbon cables notwithstanding..

Ps your not hard work..to quote 'his mind is not for rent to any god or government ' I think you know this quote..is cool..you made short work of Trev c...brilliant! I think he realised you were having none of his nonsense and I think he gave up and scuttled away! Lol...bro you rock!

I realised the truth of that old expression "you can't fix stupid" which is why I'm no longer trying!

ah ok Trev..honourable withdraw then? Any chance of playing another tune on your penny flute? What about a review of your leak tuner? Or maybe a indepth review of your Waltham music centre? Lol...did you keep the same speakers? Or did you push the boat (oracle)out and go for some top notch akai ones? Haha

 

I have the Leak tuner, currently I'm using a Sony budget amp with remote, A Pioneer CD recorder, A Philips 850 mk II CD player, an LG bluray, B&W 601 speakers, a BK sub and an antimode. Freebie interconnects and blue foo ones that I was given, Speaker cables are 2 runs of 79 strand in parallel. The tuner is the best sounding one I've heard.

years ago I had a leak stereo twenty and the leak tuner was very good I remember? Believe it was mono! Funny thing is? My little t amp blows it out of the water! All that engineering all those valves...all that metal!!! And a tripath chip wins hands down...mad is the modern world!

Think I solved the puzzle of your inability to hear dynamics and timing on your hifi? It's your speakers! They £350 new? Lol...did you want to borrow my dynaudio 40s? They much better..ill throw in some of my interconnects..ten times better than yours..and I'll chuck in some qed silver anniversary cables for the speakers..what do you think? Your stuff is ok..cd player is a good one! Not sure bout amp? Did you want to use my Sony xb940 amp? Then you'll be more cheerful..

I like the B&Ws thanks. The only department where they are defficient is in the bass, and that has been addressed by the sub. The cables won't make any difference, I only use short runs.

I'm not putting down your speakers..please don't think that! All I'm saying is I have much better speakers I don't use and I would rather someone used them.they languishing in loft! As my amp is..but that's fine, you carry on with your kit..but why do you have such a low opinion of better cables etc? When clearly your hifi has limitations..speakers and amp? You can't hear a difference because with your kit there is no difference! It's low end stuff for novice hifi buffs.please don't be offended I've had b&w speakers and they fab within limits..look borrow my Sony amp..huge difference..maybe your speakers might be ok with better amp? Your missing the bus here Trev..cant see the wood for the trees! The truth is out there..its called better amp..and with a better amp? The limitations of your cables will also be revealed..so in some respects you will be grumpy as having to buy new cables? But then happiness! And you'll come here and rave about the new sound...and even? Enthuse about cables? Everyone will be nicer to you..its win win mate..

 

[TomSawyer]

As for the coathanger, it all depends. BT run unscreened audio leads for miles without a problem, and that unsheilded Cat5 in the back of your PC is transferring data at gigabit speeds. In a relatively (electrically) quiet home environment, if the coathangers (you would need two - signal and earth) were kept away from mains cables and the boxes were only a coathangers width apart, you could probably get away with using a coat hanger as a line level interconnect without any ill effects.

Andy, thanks for the comprehensive reply. Provided you don't mind being asked questions, please don't dumb-down your answers for me.

The issue I had with the coat-hanger suggestion is that of course in an interference free environment over a very short distance it would make no difference. I don't know about you, but the back of my hifi does have mains cables, external power supplies and a 1kVA amplifier transformer so I don't think that it's true that it would work as well in a real world environment (which lets be honest is where RCA cables tend to be used). Also, who knows where other posters live. I assume someone living in a block of flats next to an IGBT drive for an elevator or a mobile phone mast might see a bit more again.

I also take the point about cat 5 cables but (as ever correct me if I'm wrong) don't the transmission protocols used include error checking and correction so the worst that happens is a reduction in speed and, having just Cat 6'ed the house for audio and video transmission, isn't a lot of Cat 6 screened for exactly that reason.

 

[TrevC]

Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_2CdWr-sI

You wouldn't hear those differences casually listening..you need to understand the complexity of rhythms..and if you can't hear that in the first place due to your silly notions that cables are all similar..its a waste of time for you lot with your cheap as chips cables proudly exclaiming us who have pricey cables are stupid? I'm not saying you have to spend nuts money..to appreciate the timing and rhythm which a lot of you are clearly missing out on

Pure BS. You wouldn't know the difference without looking at the cables. Why? Because there are no differences to be heard.

 

[keeper of the quays]

Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_2CdWr-sI

 

You wouldn't hear those differences casually listening..you need to understand the complexity of rhythms..and if you can't hear that in the first place due to your silly notions that cables are all similar..its a waste of time for you lot with your cheap as chips cables proudly exclaiming us who have pricey cables are stupid? I'm not saying you have to spend nuts money..to appreciate the timing and rhythm which a lot of you are clearly missing out on

Pure BS. You wouldn't know the difference without looking at the cables. Why? Because there are no differences to be heard.

I think I'm as much as your kit is involved it's true..you cant hear a difference. Because your kit can't produce it..my kit can..so having a opinion on cables etc with such poor equipment is frankly silly! Take up my offer! You had a musical fidelity amp I believe? How can you go backwards to some cheap Sony amp? Yes I know its upsetting to love a amp and it pack up! But it's time to open the curtains so to speak..let in the sunlight! The mourning for musical fidelity amp has ended....your like miss haversham! It's time to move on mate..new amp new start!

 

[TrevC]

Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_2CdWr-sI

You wouldn't hear those differences casually listening..you need to understand the complexity of rhythms..and if you can't hear that in the first place due to your silly notions that cables are all similar..its a waste of time for you lot with your cheap as chips cables proudly exclaiming us who have pricey cables are stupid? I'm not saying you have to spend nuts money..to appreciate the timing and rhythm which a lot of you are clearly missing out on

Pure BS. You wouldn't know the difference without looking at the cables. Why? Because there are no differences to be heard.

I think I'm as much as your kit is involved it's true..you cant hear a difference. Because your kit can't produce it..my kit can..so having a opinion on cables etc with such poor equipment is frankly silly! Take up my offer! You had a musical fidelity amp I believe? How can you go backwards to some cheap Sony amp? Yes I know its upsetting to love a amp and it pack up! But it's time to open the curtains so to speak..let in the sunlight! The mourning for musical fidelity amp has ended....your like miss haversham! It's time to move on mate..new amp new start!

No, there really are no differences in interconnects made of wire to be heard, on any equipment. Get someone to test you and post the results here. I was slightly surprised by how good the Sony is, but it was a 5 star product according to WHF. I don't need more power but I really want a remote.

 

[keeper of the quays]

Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_2CdWr-sI

 

You wouldn't hear those differences casually listening..you need to understand the complexity of rhythms..and if you can't hear that in the first place due to your silly notions that cables are all similar..its a waste of time for you lot with your cheap as chips cables proudly exclaiming us who have pricey cables are stupid? I'm not saying you have to spend nuts money..to appreciate the timing and rhythm which a lot of you are clearly missing out on

Pure BS. You wouldn't know the difference without looking at the cables. Why? Because there are no differences to be heard.

I think I'm as much as your kit is involved it's true..you cant hear a difference. Because your kit can't produce it..my kit can..so having a opinion on cables etc with such poor equipment is frankly silly! Take up my offer! You had a musical fidelity amp I believe? How can you go backwards to some cheap Sony amp? Yes I know its upsetting to love a amp and it pack up! But it's time to open the curtains so to speak..let in the sunlight! The mourning for musical fidelity amp has ended....your like miss haversham! It's time to move on mate..new amp new start!

No, there really are no differences in interconnects made of wire to be heard, on any equipment. Get someone to test you and post the results here. I was slightly surprised by how good the Sony is, but it was a 5 star product according to WHF. I don't need more power but I really want a remote.

the offers there if you change your mind.all the best mate.