Hi Dandy,
Certainly the budget is right to make some sort of impact. The big problem I was coming up with was the modern interpretation of the word 'improvement'. Some would say the Ortofon M2 Black 'is better', loads of detail, great base but it has no soul, of course thats my personal opinion with respect to my system.
I did not get to hear the Grado Master . . . it is said to be very laid back but detailed, a bit 'Marmite' I suspect.
Have a look on the Divine Audio site, there is a very good description on one of the Lyra cartridges in the customer review, not seen that before myself.
I had a go at Dynavectors, came close but not quite???
I was lucky, the Sumiko was a used trade in . . . I had everything to gain, the dealer said I could try it, it was destined for the trash heap anyway! First hurdle, it was not worn out, I sat and listened, not in the face but it draws you into the music. Slowly one becomes aware of the fines in the recording, first in the midrange then top and bottom . . . you start to realise you are listening to what on the record, not the style of the cartridge. Over egged base, forward bright detailed top, its not real, great for a little while, then the itchy feet start, I dont have that problem.
How all this relates to your deck, arm, system, only you can tell by listening, I'm not suggesting a Sumiko Pearwood, thats £1300 new! Sadly, I never got to hear the Benz cartridges, they certainly should be in the running . . . however, at this sort of money a dealer has got to go along with you on demo, IMHO.
PC tomorrow, regards, CJSF
Certainly the budget is right to make some sort of impact. The big problem I was coming up with was the modern interpretation of the word 'improvement'. Some would say the Ortofon M2 Black 'is better', loads of detail, great base but it has no soul, of course thats my personal opinion with respect to my system.
I did not get to hear the Grado Master . . . it is said to be very laid back but detailed, a bit 'Marmite' I suspect.
Have a look on the Divine Audio site, there is a very good description on one of the Lyra cartridges in the customer review, not seen that before myself.
I had a go at Dynavectors, came close but not quite???
I was lucky, the Sumiko was a used trade in . . . I had everything to gain, the dealer said I could try it, it was destined for the trash heap anyway! First hurdle, it was not worn out, I sat and listened, not in the face but it draws you into the music. Slowly one becomes aware of the fines in the recording, first in the midrange then top and bottom . . . you start to realise you are listening to what on the record, not the style of the cartridge. Over egged base, forward bright detailed top, its not real, great for a little while, then the itchy feet start, I dont have that problem.
How all this relates to your deck, arm, system, only you can tell by listening, I'm not suggesting a Sumiko Pearwood, thats £1300 new! Sadly, I never got to hear the Benz cartridges, they certainly should be in the running . . . however, at this sort of money a dealer has got to go along with you on demo, IMHO.
PC tomorrow, regards, CJSF
Having slept on this one . . . there is going to be an obvious cry of overkill, can a 'Rega'(?) handle an expensive, quality MC cartridge? I would be inclined to agree, however, having been there, my results speak for themselves. We are no longer dealing with a Rega, it is an 'Insprire TT' that uses some Rega parts as do other quality TT.
Its all in the evaluation, if the OP can get the dem cartridges to make up his own mind.
The sticking points in my mind are the 301 arm, I have the 700. Still using the less than confidence assuring, over speed, original Rega plastic sub platter. My experiance with the metal sub are mixed in relation to an acylic platter? The RB 301 arm does not have the heavy fixing lugs of the 700, I believe the 700 bearings are also of a selected quality? The issue of counter weight I believe has been resolved in this case?
CJSF
Its all in the evaluation, if the OP can get the dem cartridges to make up his own mind.
The sticking points in my mind are the 301 arm, I have the 700. Still using the less than confidence assuring, over speed, original Rega plastic sub platter. My experiance with the metal sub are mixed in relation to an acylic platter? The RB 301 arm does not have the heavy fixing lugs of the 700, I believe the 700 bearings are also of a selected quality? The issue of counter weight I believe has been resolved in this case?
CJSF
Can A rega handle exensice MC's, yes, mine (P9-RB1000) has been able to show what carts like the apheta, benz Glider and various dynavectors can do. I would suggest that you try to find a dealer that will let you compare a dyna DV20xl and Glider on your deck. I think you will be very surprised.
I have been playing around with my Quest deck, and comparing it to the P9. The quest really needs to have a subplatter upgrade, and the arm (on mine) a standard RB251, as a minimum needs to have the stub and weight replaced with some thing all metal. A rewire would not go amiss either.
As has been said above, after the mods, it is not a Rega, it is a quest, and you have to decide which of the sounds you prefer. In my case I prefer the Rega sound, and I think the quest will be on its way shortley. It is a fine sounding deck, and does some thing very well indeed, but it does not sit as well in my system as a full one rega.
I have been playing around with my Quest deck, and comparing it to the P9. The quest really needs to have a subplatter upgrade, and the arm (on mine) a standard RB251, as a minimum needs to have the stub and weight replaced with some thing all metal. A rewire would not go amiss either.
As has been said above, after the mods, it is not a Rega, it is a quest, and you have to decide which of the sounds you prefer. In my case I prefer the Rega sound, and I think the quest will be on its way shortley. It is a fine sounding deck, and does some thing very well indeed, but it does not sit as well in my system as a full one rega.
I suppose the best option is to take my t/t to a dealer who has a good range of mc cartridges and let them speak for themselves.
I've got the Origin Live counterweight upgrade, so without replacing arm and sub-platter, there's not much more I can do.
Tempted by the Benz Micro Glider SL
I've got the Origin Live counterweight upgrade, so without replacing arm and sub-platter, there's not much more I can do.
Tempted by the Benz Micro Glider SL
There you go Dandy, 'Respe's comments' (#13) the voice of experience . . . upgrade the Sub Platter, re wire the arm, quality cartridge no problem.
By the way, I believe Rega now fit a metal sub platter to the new P6?
CJSF
By the way, I believe Rega now fit a metal sub platter to the new P6?
CJSF
Metal subplatter ordered from Isokinetik - can sneak that in without anyone at home knowing.
Then on to cartridgeville
Then on to cartridgeville
DandyCobalt said:Metal subplatter ordered from Isokinetik - can sneak that in without anyone at home knowing.
Then on to cartridgeville
Ah . . . but we know 8)
Cartridgeville . . . you are realy enjoying this . . . :rofl:
CJS
If you are lucky enough to have a dealer close enough to you, with the stock to demo then enjoy the experience. The glider is a bit special, but in my system the apheta just had the edge.
DandyCobalt said:Metal subplatter ordered from Isokinetik - can sneak that in without anyone at home knowing.
Then on to cartridgeville
Dandy, when you get your ISOsub, after you have run it in and had a listen . . . if you were me, you would want to play around with it. Damping it down, I cut three sorbothane damping wedges:
I put the sub on a scrap sheet of cardboard . . . single thickness packing box of some sort, drew around the inside of the holes with a sharp pencil to make a template. Then used an old piece of fome/sorbathane (6mm mouse mat?) and cut them out, sicors proved better than scaple. You could draw straight onto the sorbathane, but they need to be a tight fit so cut over size, outside the line.
You will note, there are two different types of damping, thats me being ultra-picky with the final sound, like me and removing 2 segments on the Rega sub damping kit, I'm like that.
I have to say, I dont know how it will work with the thick acrylic platter, may have no effect? My feeling is, it may not be as fussy with the heavy acrylic platter as with the Rega Glass platter that I favour? Any old how, for what its worth . . . ??
CJSF
Thanks cjsf. Just phoned the Maidstone Benz dealer - essentially, no demo possible ! Pay yer money take yer risk. No test drive possible, unless you want hear hear a different Benz cartridge in a different t/t through a different system.
Anyone know how I can test drive a £800 cartridge before buying?
Anyone know how I can test drive a £800 cartridge before buying?
DandyCobalt said:
Drove me nuts!!! . . .
. . . when I was doing my rounds looking for Benz . . . I came across:
http://www.alternativeaudio.co.uk/contact.htm
Hi cost cartridges are so difficult in general, its like buying a 'lucky dip', Benz in particular! There are a few enlightened dealers in the country, they need searching out, but dont always stock the brands you want.
There was a Benz dealer off Oxford street, London, the shop name escapes me, very arrogant! . . . ?????
Big day today, Hazel going into hospital fo her majour op., book in to the ward at 7 o'clock!!!. . . be all over by this time tonight:?
CJSF
Thanks Cjsf,
Our thoughts are with you for Hazel's op. The Horlicks awaits at the end of it.
Dandy
Our thoughts are with you for Hazel's op. The Horlicks awaits at the end of it.
Dandy
Just received the metal sub-platter and will fit it this weekend - looks like you have to run the t/t for 24hours to get it properly bedded in.
I've also just received the upgraded power line for my Trichord Dino (psu to amp) and it seems to have improved the sound by a good step. (even better defined).
Back on the cartridge dilemma, I've had contact with Peter at Alternative Audio (very quick response) who recommends the Lyra Dorian (fave of cjsf too, I think).
But how to demo?? Do I take a punt and get one ? (either the Benz Glider or the Dorian - looks favour the Benz)
I've also just received the upgraded power line for my Trichord Dino (psu to amp) and it seems to have improved the sound by a good step. (even better defined).
Back on the cartridge dilemma, I've had contact with Peter at Alternative Audio (very quick response) who recommends the Lyra Dorian (fave of cjsf too, I think).
But how to demo?? Do I take a punt and get one ? (either the Benz Glider or the Dorian - looks favour the Benz)
DandyCobalt said:
Dandy, yes I did the sub switch one evening then simply left it running until the same time the next day . . . well nearly, I could not keep my hand off for a whole 24hrs!!!
We have a member here, 'Floyd Droid' who uses a 'Lyra Dorian' search amongst his contributions on the various cartridge threads, you will see his comments are very positive, to the point of 'do it' . . . I have seen nothing but praise for the Dorian.
Eye candy is one thing, performance is something again, one has seen some negative comments and reviews on the Glider, not serious no-no's, but not so positive either??? Have no first-hand experience other than what one reads . . . so, 'you pays your money and . . . '?
My only other offering would be, try my local, friendly and very obliging dealer:
http://www.signals.uk.com/
See what Andy or Alistair have to say, they normally stock Lyra, trouble is, 'keeping them in stock', especially the Dorian.
CJSF
Thanks cjsf,
Just had an email from Peter at Alternative Audio recommending that the Dorian might be too much combined with the downstream Cyrus and CM8s - he'd recommend the Benz Glider with that combination.
I might have to take the plunge. Just need to get a buyer for my Laser 2k dinghy, and then might have some funds to use.
ps. Hope Hazel ok and back on the Horlicks?
Just had an email from Peter at Alternative Audio recommending that the Dorian might be too much combined with the downstream Cyrus and CM8s - he'd recommend the Benz Glider with that combination.
I might have to take the plunge. Just need to get a buyer for my Laser 2k dinghy, and then might have some funds to use.
ps. Hope Hazel ok and back on the Horlicks?
DandyCobalt said:
Very interesting, at least 'Alternative Audio' are showing some positive interest . . . thats worth a lot . . .
Sort of matches with those comments I have seen on the Glider; a 'little lighter than . . . '? if you see the point . . . :? Possibly good advice.Yes, thanks, op went OK, she was pleased to see me last night, a bit doppy though??? Its the long road back now. Complication!!! . . . they discovered she has advanced arthritis in her hip joints . . . need to find out more?
CJSF
Yes, pity that Alternative Audio are not closer to me. I really need the store's help with setting it up - too much at stake for me to mess it up
Just had a long chat with Peter from Alternative Audio - he's up my way regularly, so looking good for him selling and fitting as well. (Looks like I'll go for the Benz Micro Glider SL).
Boat sold, Benz Glider ordered from Peter at Alternative Audio, and he will fit it too, when he is next up my neck of the woods. Excellent!
New sub-platter now installed and running-in.
As I'm upgrading to the Benz Glider, I've also gone for a continuous Incognito silver wiring upgrade, so my t/t will be very different to the P3-24 that it started life as.
As I'm upgrading to the Benz Glider, I've also gone for a continuous Incognito silver wiring upgrade, so my t/t will be very different to the P3-24 that it started life as.
DandyCobalt said:
. . . Silver wire :? ????? . . . is that to be fitted at the same time as the Glider?
Waiting with baited breath on the results of the sub . . . 8)
CJSF
Peter from Alternative Audio recommended that, as I'm going the moving coil route, then the signal path would benefit from being as good as possible - ie, use a better cartridge-to-amp wiring than came with the original p3.
So after a bit of research, and a bit of advice on options from Analogue Seduction, this is the rewire I've gone for...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390400707889&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
It's an all-in-one, single cable reach from cartridge to amp, with a separate grounding wire (I understand that the Rega originally grounds through one of the L/R channels?)
I'll do the rewire before getting the new cartridge, so that I can check any differences step by step.
The subplatter is still running-in ...I turned it off overnight, but then started it again before heading in to work (my patience surprises me this time
I've also bought some Isokinetic shims, just in case the new Benz cartridge needs more height (VTA) than the Goldring 1042 did - any heads-up advice on this last point most welcome.
So after a bit of research, and a bit of advice on options from Analogue Seduction, this is the rewire I've gone for...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390400707889&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
It's an all-in-one, single cable reach from cartridge to amp, with a separate grounding wire (I understand that the Rega originally grounds through one of the L/R channels?)
I'll do the rewire before getting the new cartridge, so that I can check any differences step by step.
The subplatter is still running-in ...I turned it off overnight, but then started it again before heading in to work (my patience surprises me this time
I've also bought some Isokinetic shims, just in case the new Benz cartridge needs more height (VTA) than the Goldring 1042 did - any heads-up advice on this last point most welcome.
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