I was wrong about HDMI cables!

[BenLaw]

Hi BenLaw I havent seen it no - I only piped up in this one as the op said he heard a big difference putting the chord active into his system.

That made me write my experiences about them and the differences I have seen. Whats happened in that thread?

I am not naive or ignorant to reading and listening to the science behind there not being a difference between hdmi cables - and recently I would have loved to have used cheap cables and I tried them extensively but I just couldnt stand the image I was getting - nothing to do with any bias it just wasnt as good as what I was used to - even the mrs who couldnt care less commented completely unprovoked

No, not the line about your wife! :hand:

Anyway, this is the thread I meant: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/computer-based-media/cds-ripped-by-different-drives-sound-differentnearly-fell-for-it

just had a look at that and don't see the relevance - your saying digital is digital I get that, that's all I get. That's where you would argue that's all that matters

shame your so far away will have to wait for BB

The relevance is that the situations are analogous. On this thread you said you'd watched the video and you accepted what the hdmi chap said, and yet you still reported a perceived difference. With the cd drives, the major knew theoretically there was no difference and yet still reported a perceived difference. Seems analogous to me, save that he's able to make a check to prove to himself and us that he was wrong.

If my rejection of coming to yours seems a bit secretive, I'm in Manchester / Stockport while bb I believe is in South Yorkshire. I also have a baby who means weekends away are something of a luxury!

 

[cheeseboy]

The author of the book is Jeff Boccaccio, and this is his view about HDMI cables: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MMDGkQ-w5s&sns=em

Spot on. Start at 3.30 for the juicy bits.

Perhaps ellisdj and others who've posted saying there's a difference would care to give us their thoughts on this? Sliced bread, seems to me if anyone would know then this guy would?

Doesn't matter that people who test for standards, or other people who can conduct test that hold up to a scientific study (ie being able to measure results) say that they are all the same, as people will still believe what they want to believe. And sorry to say, the more information like this that comes up, the more hapless what hifi look in their reviews

 

[duaplex]

Perhaps somebody from whathifi needs to comment on what you just said. Would be interesting to hear.

 

[relocated]

Perhaps somebody from whathifi needs to comment on what you just said. Would be interesting to hear.

If they say anything at all it will be along the lines of: No reviews are done on the basis of how much advertising the mag accepts from the maker/distributer/seller. They will reinforce this comment by saying that the review team get into all sorts of arguments with the sales team because their reviews are so upright and honest. They will also tell you that the 'testing facility' ie. a room that people listen in and watch things in, cost over a million pounds [sterling] and that the reviewers are experienced.

They will not agree to do ABX testing because it will show that properly conducted ABX tests reveal that substantial areas of hifi/av, beyond hdmi/optical drives, would suffer a serious slump in sales. This because people cannot tell a difference between products or where they do they often prefer the cheaper products. They will not do scientific tests because the same will happen. Simple tests such as the one done by Major Fubar will similarly not be conducted because it will prove [ to sane people] that much hype in hifi/av is just that; hype, ignorance and marketing.

Magazines who persist with supporting the unsupportable will gradually die or survive on fewer and fewer purchasers who themselves will become more extreme in their views.

The problem for the hifi/av crowd is that consumers are coming to this sector from the computer/post pc generation where they have had years of experience about what digital does and what it can't do. The nonsence about cables, for example, is a total nonsence to them because no-one ever purchased or sought a new cable that enhanced the performance of their printer or made a better back-up of their hard-drive.

 

[BenLaw]

Perhaps somebody from whathifi needs to comment on what you just said. Would be interesting to hear.

To give a slightly less cynical answer, WHF won't comment on because of an informal forum policy not to involve themselves on particularly controversial (and repeated) threads such as cables. It can be a bit frustrating as it would be interesting to have a reasoned comment on some aspects that have arisen on this thread. However, in general the policy has lead to greater debate, less vitriol and less thread lockage, so has been a positive.

duaplex, what are your thoughts on what the chap says in the youtube video?

sliced bread's thoughts would also be appreciated.

 

[duaplex]

The sound, I'm still divided on. The system came alive with the Cord, even more so than my cheap free cable I received with my PS3. Picture quality was harder to spot on this occasion.

In conclusion, I would like him to answer the question about sound quality too.

 

[BenLaw]

The sound, I'm still divided on. The system came alive with the Cord, even more so than my cheap free cable I received with my PS3. Picture quality was harder to spot on this occasion.

In conclusion, I would like him to answer the question about sound quality too.

When you say 'harder to spot', what do you mean? Do you mean you couldn't spot? What was different? In your OP you said 'Picture was also warmer, deeper in colour and rich.' Would you not stick to that now? You also said your wife immediately mentioned the picture was better. I would be intrigued to know her reaction if you told her the cable you swapped couldn't improve the picture (according to one of the pre-eminent figures in hdmi and head of a massive testing and certification company).

I knew immediately when I watched the video that some would try and use the life raft of sound, and it is therefore a shame that he was not asked about it. But it's clear to me the only difference is that he was not asked. Both the sound and audio are digital data, there is no distinction by the cable. Would anyone care to suggest a plausible difference other than merely stating that video and audio are different?

Thanks to duaplex and ellisdj btw for commenting on the video, you appear to be braver than some on this thread.

 

[duaplex]

No problem. The picture clarity during some darker scenes and namely 3D films seems to clearer. So with the PS3 cable I notice a sparkle effect on the picture during darker scenes (Dredd 3D is terrible), this I would normally attribute to a bad transfer to bluray and think nothing more, but with this cable I noticed a clear reduction. Not entirely eliminated, but better. The sound is also different, it's brighter for me.

I would have to agree HDMI cables are standard, no change will occur over digital from one to another, this has been proven over the years, which is why I would never buy a monster cable. Now this HDMI cable has a high frequency filter network, or simply put this chip. It seems to be adding something different. It is the only cable for me that I was willing to try and put aside my strong beliefs, only because it added something different.

David from hifix posted something interesting earlier in this thread. He asked audioquest about active cables and they believe it actually degrades the quality. Perhaps I like degraded sound? :O

I would love to know what the expert says regarding this matter.

I think it's worth a try and you can always return it. As I said before no way would I have spent beyond £40, I'm an enthusiast and love build quality, but I'm also sensible

 

[duaplex]

Perhaps somebody from whathifi needs to comment on what you just said. Would be interesting to hear.

To give a slightly less cynical answer, WHF won't comment on because of an informal forum policy not to involve themselves on particularly controversial (and repeated) threads such as cables. It can be a bit frustrating as it would be interesting to have a reasoned comment on some aspects that have arisen on this thread. However, in general the policy has lead to greater debate, less vitriol and less thread lockage, so has been a positive.

duaplex, what are your thoughts on what the chap says in the youtube video?

sliced bread's thoughts would also be appreciated.

+1

That would be great to have some input, I often wonder about test conditions. Is it the same equipment used, same cables, same room? etc

 

[abacus]

No problem. The picture clarity during some darker scenes and namely 3D films seems to clearer. So with the PS3 cable I notice a sparkle effect on the picture during darker scenes (Dredd 3D is terrible), this I would normally attribute to a bad transfer to bluray and think nothing more, but with this cable I noticed a clear reduction. Not entirely eliminated, but better. The sound is also different, it's brighter for me.

I would have to agree HDMI cables are standard, no change will occur over digital from one to another, this has been proven over the years, which is why I would never buy a monster cable. Now this HDMI cable has a high frequency filter network, or simply put this chip. It seems to be adding something different. It is the only cable for me that I was willing to try and put aside my strong beliefs, only because it added something different.

David from hifix posted something interesting earlier in this thread. He asked audioquest about active cables and they believe it actually degrades the quality. Perhaps I like degraded sound? :O

I would love to know what the expert says regarding this matter.

I think it's worth a try and you can always return it. As I said before no way would I have spent beyond £40, I'm an enthusiast and love build quality, but I'm also sensible

If you’re seeing sparkles, than as I mentioned in a previous post, your old cable does not meet the minimum specification and is faulty, try one of the cables that bigboss mentioned and you will find no difference between your filtered cable and one of those cables.

Bill

 

[Frank Harvey]

David from hifix posted something interesting earlier in this thread. He asked audioquest about active cables and they believe it actually degrades the quality. Perhaps I like degraded sound? :O

If I recall correctly, he said that it degraded the picture, which is why they won't use them unless they have to (at certain lengths).

 

[fr0g]

No problem. The picture clarity during some darker scenes and namely 3D films seems to clearer. So with the PS3 cable I notice a sparkle effect on the picture during darker scenes (Dredd 3D is terrible), this I would normally attribute to a bad transfer to bluray and think nothing more, but with this cable I noticed a clear reduction. Not entirely eliminated, but better. The sound is also different, it's brighter for me.

I would have to agree HDMI cables are standard, no change will occur over digital from one to another, this has been proven over the years, which is why I would never buy a monster cable. Now this HDMI cable has a high frequency filter network, or simply put this chip. It seems to be adding something different. It is the only cable for me that I was willing to try and put aside my strong beliefs, only because it added something different.

David from hifix posted something interesting earlier in this thread. He asked audioquest about active cables and they believe it actually degrades the quality. Perhaps I like degraded sound? :O

I would love to know what the expert says regarding this matter.

I think it's worth a try and you can always return it. As I said before no way would I have spent beyond £40, I'm an enthusiast and love build quality, but I'm also sensible

If you’re seeing sparkles, than as I mentioned in a previous post, your old cable does not meet the minimum specification and is faulty, try one of the cables that bigboss mentioned and you will find no difference between your filtered cable and one of those cables.

Bill

+1

Sounds like the old cable is faulty. For laughs I would suggest getting an Amazon Basics cable to compare. WIll look and sound identical to the Cord.

 

[Petherick]

Cord.

vs Chord - they sound the same but look different

so there is a difference!

 

[davidvann]

hi duaplex ,i think you done well for your chord hdmi cable,i am more than pleased with mine paying £40 good cable,j dont think the stick that you have got from posting your results has been at all fair,your only describing what you see and what you hear.i dont think £40 pounds is a lot of money we you have got a high end system like yours.for those who think £40 pounds is a rip of check out audioquest diamond hdmi cable for 0.6 meters comes in at a cool £799.this should give the guys something to talk about..lol david

 

[duaplex]

Thanks David

Oh and for £799 it better get up and make me some tea lol!

 

[duaplex]

David from hifix posted something interesting earlier in this thread. He asked audioquest about active cables and they believe it actually degrades the quality. Perhaps I like degraded sound? :O

If I recall correctly, he said that it degraded the picture, which is why they won't use them unless they have to (at certain lengths).

So I decided to investigate - The active component in a HDMI cable will draw power from the HDMI port itself, Something that the HDMI port was not designed to do, as a result the power that the HDMI cable would enjoy normally for transferring at high bit rates is jeapordised, this may result in a dip in performance.

This is what i was reading up, I forget the website now! But it makes sense. Underpowered, the bit rates may drop off. This may be one argument to use against active cables and may be the reason they dropped them from thier production line, come to think of it, this could be why Chord has stopped making the Active Silver cable.

 

[Andrew Everard]

So I decided to investigate - The active component in a HDMI cable will draw power from the HDMI port itself, Something that the HDMI port was not designed to do,

Look at an HDMI socket head on and the bottom left pin carries 5V power, although there is a 50mA limit on whatever it's used to supply.

 

[duaplex]

Interesting, I just had a look

Do I dare ask your opinion on this whole matter Andrew?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Do I dare ask your opinion on this whole matter Andrew?

Of course: I am absolutely certain that pin carries power.

 

[laserman16]

Do I dare ask your opinion on this whole matter Andrew?

Of course: I am absolutely certain that pin carries power.

 

[bigboss]

Do I dare ask your opinion on this whole matter Andrew?

Of course: I am absolutely certain that pin carries power.

 

[ellisdj]

They still make the active - just renamed it and in exact lenghts 5,10 and 15 metre and put the chip in the plug - called active resolution and is expensive

 

[duaplex]

Do I dare ask your opinion on this whole matter Andrew?

Of course: I am absolutely certain that pin carries power.

:rofl:

 

[duaplex]

At the show they told me they had stopped, more false information by the Chord rep :doh:

 

[ellisdj]

http://www.chord.co.uk/products.php?pg=152&phpMyAdmin=H%2CKFxwyL5UycE7miJqts4M28nF4&phpMyAdmin=1f49bfd3cbdaa53c1e4262029d36fe8d