Well, I think all Hi-Fi auditioning should be like Dave Rat does in his Mighty Headphone Quest.
What is your take on how to audition?
What is your take on how to audition?
How to audition?
- Thread starter Vladimir
- Start date
Auditioning is difficult.
I listened to some CM8's and KEF rn500's the other day wired up to an Arcam receiver from a pioneer blu-ray via HDMI.
Considering the price of the speakers I was not impressed.
Doubt it was a fair 'audition' though to these speakers.(it was not booked)
Detail, imaging front to back and texture was lacking to my ears with both speakers.
I actually listened to what the speakers did with the different parts of the music.
Compared to how it sounded at home..... Not good.
If I was in the market for New speakers I'd be lost.
I listened to some CM8's and KEF rn500's the other day wired up to an Arcam receiver from a pioneer blu-ray via HDMI.
Considering the price of the speakers I was not impressed.
Doubt it was a fair 'audition' though to these speakers.(it was not booked)
Detail, imaging front to back and texture was lacking to my ears with both speakers.
I actually listened to what the speakers did with the different parts of the music.
Compared to how it sounded at home..... Not good.
If I was in the market for New speakers I'd be lost.
Thompsonuxb said:
iv'e always bought used/second hand items off ebay or carboot etc .... I have not had many systems, but so far, I've been lucky ...
lots of research though on forums and google. .... always read what other owners think of it, but also check what other items are connected to their systems.
scene
Well-known member
Auditioning is hard.
You should always try to book time in advance, so that the dealer can set things up properly. If you're just going to be auditioning one component - say speakers - see if the dealer has got source/amp the same as yours, or is happy to set yours up for the demo.
Bring in music / films that are representative of what you will be listening to / watching and are familiar with.
Make sure you've got time to listen.
The ideal audition is in-home. There are still some dealers who allow you try things in your own home. Actually plumbing a bit of kit into your own equipment and hearing in situ beats all other trials.
Oh yes - never, ever try speakers fresh out of the box - they have to be run in, and even the best speaker can sound like a raucous fishwife when first connected...
You should always try to book time in advance, so that the dealer can set things up properly. If you're just going to be auditioning one component - say speakers - see if the dealer has got source/amp the same as yours, or is happy to set yours up for the demo.
Bring in music / films that are representative of what you will be listening to / watching and are familiar with.
Make sure you've got time to listen.
The ideal audition is in-home. There are still some dealers who allow you try things in your own home. Actually plumbing a bit of kit into your own equipment and hearing in situ beats all other trials.
Oh yes - never, ever try speakers fresh out of the box - they have to be run in, and even the best speaker can sound like a raucous fishwife when first connected...
scene
Well-known member
Laurens_B said:
Yes - that can be true, and I feel I should qualify my earlier statement (starting to sound a bit Clinton-esque
), if the speakers got metal cones - like monitor audios do - and/or the manufacturer states that the speaker should be run in, then don't try them straight out of the box.I auditioned my Silver 8is at Sevenoaks, and had to wait a few extra days, while they ran in their demo pair. They sounded brilliant - paired with an Arcam A85 and DV88 as it happens. When I got my new speakers home Mrs. scene thought they sounded shrill and harsh and was worried... but having run them in as prescribed by MA they sounded brilliant, and still do...
hybridauth_Facebook_664715932
Well-known member
Few years back when I was looking to upgrade my speakers, I think I auditioned 8 different pairs in one day at frank harveys in coventry. I listened to pmcdb1, proac studio 110, scm11 etc ect. In the end I narrowed it down to kef r300 and cm5. Came back to the shop after an hour or so listened to both sets again and decided to get the cm5s. I booked in advance and was there for whole day. David was very helpful.
I went to superfi in B'ham to auditioned a couple of amps, having done the dome when I said to the sales advisor that I am not going to be able to make a decision today; he was rather cheesed off and seemed to have lost all interest in me as a customer after that I never went back to superfi.
I went to superfi in B'ham to auditioned a couple of amps, having done the dome when I said to the sales advisor that I am not going to be able to make a decision today; he was rather cheesed off and seemed to have lost all interest in me as a customer after that I never went back to superfi.
BigH
Well-known member
Laurens_B said:
Same here. But some speakers take hours for you to get used to them or maybe never, lol.
DIB
Well-known member
When I got my Epos speakers 2 years ago, I had a good session listening to various speakers (Epos, ProAc, Totem, Rega and Monitor) at my dealer ( Doug Brady HiFi). I had taken in my own Creek amp to hook them up to, and I used the dealers Exposure CDP as source. Armed with my own Cds I had about 2-3 hours listening before deciding that I liked the Epos the best. It's bloody hard though, all the speakers sounded good to me. As the listening room was nothing remotely like my living room Doug Bradys suggested that I take the Epos home for a couple of weeks to have a really good listen in my own time. So glad I did, as they sounded even better at home, and my order was duly placed with Doug Brady.
I've done the same thing with a Rothwell Rialto phono amp, but after a weeks trial that did not lead to a sale. Not because it wasn't any good, rather that it highlighted to me how good the onboard Creek Sequel phonocard is.
.
I've done the same thing with a Rothwell Rialto phono amp, but after a weeks trial that did not lead to a sale. Not because it wasn't any good, rather that it highlighted to me how good the onboard Creek Sequel phonocard is.
.
MeanandGreen
Well-known member
Best to audition at home if possible.
Every dem room I've been in never sounds as good as my system at home. No where near as good in fact.
In saying that when I bought my Tannoy Mercury V4 a year ago and my NAD C326BEE the year before that, I didn't even bother with auditions. If you are experienced enough to know what type of sound you do and don't like and if you can cut through the BS in reviews, I think it is possible to make an educated decision on what to buy.
If a product is praised for the particular strengths you are looking by several different sources including actual buyers and owners of the product, then it's pretty safe to say you know what you're going to get.
Every dem room I've been in never sounds as good as my system at home. No where near as good in fact.
In saying that when I bought my Tannoy Mercury V4 a year ago and my NAD C326BEE the year before that, I didn't even bother with auditions. If you are experienced enough to know what type of sound you do and don't like and if you can cut through the BS in reviews, I think it is possible to make an educated decision on what to buy.
If a product is praised for the particular strengths you are looking by several different sources including actual buyers and owners of the product, then it's pretty safe to say you know what you're going to get.
SteveR750
Well-known member
MeanandGreen said:
Agree with this. If you use a demo room you have to make sure you start off with something closer to your system (certainly the analoguie bits anyway), otherwise it's not a comparison. Once you find a reviewere whose subjective interpretation of a piece of equipment matches yours, then their other product reviews should give you a good place to start.
I prefer to audition with a Lagavulin 16 year old whisky in one had, a cuban cigar in the other hand, and a hot blond on my lap. *good*
Townshend (of Townshend Audio) once stated that it takes around twenty to twenty five minutes to sufficiently relax (after sitting down) to take in what is happening. Something to do with alpha waves or similar. This period of time could be longer depending on stress level, traffic to the dealer etc etc.
If true it would mean that most things auditioned within that initial period may confuse or worse, irritate.
Home trials are always better but I did have some enjoyable sessions in dealerships.
If true it would mean that most things auditioned within that initial period may confuse or worse, irritate.
Home trials are always better but I did have some enjoyable sessions in dealerships.
Not a fan of auditioning speakers myself. It's so easy with headphones, there is no room or positioning to consider and it's upclose and intimate. Or you can just plug the jack in a test rig and handpick your choices not lifting your bum from your comfy armchair, like Dave Rat did.
To audition speakers or amps and sources, I go in a public space and use it to do so. I do this ritual of attentive listening completely unaware of the room sound signature and with my head fully packed with confusing expectation bias from reading a cocktail of brochures, specs and reviews from mags, owners and forum debates. I can't play with cables, cartridges or the dealer's patience by swapping gear and repositioning it as much as I need to so I come with some reliable lasting impression.
This is why I do not joke when I say, the 3 rules to abide for a pleasurable Hi-Fi experience are, do not to join forums, have a great relationship with one well equiped shop and knowledgable dealer and never run out of money. Spend time reading reviews by mags and owners as many as you want, just don't do it on a forum. You ask for an opinion, an advice on a forum and within first page it tunrs into a debate on cables and vinyl.
Great relationship with a dealer means you go to your shop like a hi-fi club, you know the space, you know the room signature and how it translate into your own room, its relaxed, the dealer leaves you at it to play with the toys, sometimes you get gear for home auditioning and special discounts.
As long as you don't run out of money, everything works.
To sum it up:
1) Read thy mag reviews. Don't join forums but read reviews means read the traffic signs but don't interact with other drivers in the traffic mess. Don't panic, don't get angry, don't care.
2) Love thy dealer. Pour lube in your car, have it well maintained and it will reward you with relaible drive from A to B everytime. Ignore the maintanance and it will leave you on the side of the road.
3) Spend thy money. Pour fuel to have the car work. No fuel, no travel, no journey, no audio nirvana.
By following these rules Hi-Fi auditioning becomes a pleasurable experience. Something of a lost art these days it seems.
To audition speakers or amps and sources, I go in a public space and use it to do so. I do this ritual of attentive listening completely unaware of the room sound signature and with my head fully packed with confusing expectation bias from reading a cocktail of brochures, specs and reviews from mags, owners and forum debates. I can't play with cables, cartridges or the dealer's patience by swapping gear and repositioning it as much as I need to so I come with some reliable lasting impression.
This is why I do not joke when I say, the 3 rules to abide for a pleasurable Hi-Fi experience are, do not to join forums, have a great relationship with one well equiped shop and knowledgable dealer and never run out of money. Spend time reading reviews by mags and owners as many as you want, just don't do it on a forum. You ask for an opinion, an advice on a forum and within first page it tunrs into a debate on cables and vinyl.
Great relationship with a dealer means you go to your shop like a hi-fi club, you know the space, you know the room signature and how it translate into your own room, its relaxed, the dealer leaves you at it to play with the toys, sometimes you get gear for home auditioning and special discounts.
As long as you don't run out of money, everything works.
To sum it up:
1) Read thy mag reviews. Don't join forums but read reviews means read the traffic signs but don't interact with other drivers in the traffic mess. Don't panic, don't get angry, don't care.
2) Love thy dealer. Pour lube in your car, have it well maintained and it will reward you with relaible drive from A to B everytime. Ignore the maintanance and it will leave you on the side of the road.
3) Spend thy money. Pour fuel to have the car work. No fuel, no travel, no journey, no audio nirvana.
By following these rules Hi-Fi auditioning becomes a pleasurable experience. Something of a lost art these days it seems.
hybridauth_Facebook_664715932
Well-known member
Vladimir said:
Thanks for posting that Vladimir.
I like Mr Rat's fuss free way in auditioning headphones, which is entirely suitable for what he will be using them for. IE not for pleasure, but for his work at a live mixing desk - which sort of assumes that the PA stack in the concert venue will be relatively neutral tonally.
Interesting that none of the headphones were really particularly neutral. They all had significant peaks / troughs / roll-offs in their frequency response. Which might just go to show how difficult it is to get a flat response from 20hz to 20khz from any single transducer or combination of transducers that can fit in a headphone.
lindsayt said:
The headphones I currently have came out of the box 30Hz-10kHz -+3dB. After 90 hours of "burn-in", the foam pads wear in, thus producing better seal arround my ears, and the driver diaphragm settles in. The FR improves (measured) to 10Hz-10kHz -+2dB.
Sennheiser known for being dark, bassy and warm house sound, keeps making brighter and brighter headphones. AKG does the opposite. Is it hard to create a reasonably flat FR transducer for domestic H-Fi, or flavored sound is better product diversification?
The perfect transducer is a restaurant with one item menu.
InnerFidelity on Burn-In
Be careful after you audition what you are considering buying that you don't then look around the shop and go "oh those look nice (in my case B&W PM1) can I have a listen to those as well" You may find you come out empty handed as after hearing something better than you went in for it puts you off, and you may decide to go away and start saving instead! I never did buy the PM1 but they made me realise I should be aiming a bit higher!!
mond, you had a lucky escape as the PM1's are hopeless speakers for rock and pop due to their excessively high levels of bass distortion at generous volumes.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
I don't think they've really been designed for "generous volumes", which doesn't really make them hopeless. One of the guys on the website uses a pair, and he listens to a lot of prog rock, and he doesn't complain about them not being sufficiently loud enough for his listening levels, whatever they may be.
By generous volumes I mean peaks of about 80 dbs. Which is generous but not so loud that there is any risk of damaging your hearing, even if you're have them on all day.
I think it's quite disappointing that these £2000 speakers have not been designed to play at those volumes without a noticeable amount of objectionable bass distortion.
And it doesn't matter how many people own and use PM1's. These speakers still have relatively high bass distortion, which makes them hopeless for rock and pop. They'd be OK for chamber music. They'd be OK for the first three minutes of prog rock concept album "Thick as a Brick", but hopeless for most of the remaining forty minutes of that album.
I think it's quite disappointing that these £2000 speakers have not been designed to play at those volumes without a noticeable amount of objectionable bass distortion.
And it doesn't matter how many people own and use PM1's. These speakers still have relatively high bass distortion, which makes them hopeless for rock and pop. They'd be OK for chamber music. They'd be OK for the first three minutes of prog rock concept album "Thick as a Brick", but hopeless for most of the remaining forty minutes of that album.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
As I say, he's heavily into his prog rock, and he's never mentioned any issues. He had them on loan to try out in his room (as well as a few others) for enough time to discover any glaring issues as well.
I think you only have to look at the size of the bass driver to realise that these speakers aren't for bass monsters (despite the quantity they have). To me, these are a lower extension of the 800 series - a budget 800 speaker if you will - similar to the way I class the LS50 an extension of the Reference range. Small speakers like these will always divide opinion due to their compromises, so much so that many people overlook their strengths.
I think you only have to look at the size of the bass driver to realise that these speakers aren't for bass monsters (despite the quantity they have). To me, these are a lower extension of the 800 series - a budget 800 speaker if you will - similar to the way I class the LS50 an extension of the Reference range. Small speakers like these will always divide opinion due to their compromises, so much so that many people overlook their strengths.
Can't say I noticed any issues with the bass while listening at the dealer. They were being driven by a Linn Majik DS-I (I had originally been auditioning the Majik 109 speaker and thought I would try something else for comparison as the dealer was quiet at the time and the B&Ws just happened to be sat there looking pretty) I seem to remember them sounding quite fine with rock and pop, although I did not turn the volume up particularly high (I don't naturally listen to music at too high a volume) As David says above they may not be for bass monsters but for an average sized living room at "normal" levels I still think they would be a good choice. Each to their own I guess, I ended up buying AudioNote AN-K - and I am sure people who listen to purely dub reggae or Drum & Bass bass would probably not choose those speakers either. P.s I was living in a static caravan at the time, so this was certainly influencing my choices. I also would not have been able to accommodate the stands, which would have been a shame as they really are integral to the design with PM1. One of the reasons I bought the Audionote was there ability to work well against walls and in corners,(as kindly pointed out once by a participant on this forum) quite useful when you live in a caravan!
Similar threads
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram