How sensitive do we think our ears are to time??

[ellisdj]

I am interested to try a MF amp and a Luxman and a few others

 

[ellisdj]

CNo mate

If you listen to these through some half decent headphones from a half decent phone, or on your main system you should be able to hear the difference between the 2 that is representative of the real thing

Bryston

(New JCat Femto USB Card in my source) and the Arcam P49.

 

[CnoEvil]

CNo mate

If you listen to these through some half decent headphones from a half decent phone, or on your main system you should be able to hear the difference between the 2 that is representative of the real thing

Bryston

(New JCat Femto USB Card in my source) and the Arcam P49.

The only headphones I own are some JVC Gumys (which have been through the wash a couple of times!). I will have to rely on your assessment.

 

[ellisdj]

CNo mate

If you listen to these through some half decent headphones from a half decent phone, or on your main system you should be able to hear the difference between the 2 that is representative of the real thing

Bryston

(New JCat Femto USB Card in my source) and the Arcam P49.

The only headphones I own are some JVC Gumys (which have been through the wash a couple of times!). I will have to rely on your assessment.

ok mate, nevermind - you could try playback on your main system, I will be doing the review hopefully tonight anyway

Takes a long time to do all this and put it all together etc.

 

[Electro]

CNo mate

If you listen to these through some half decent headphones from a half decent phone, or on your main system you should be able to hear the difference between the 2 that is representative of the real thing

Bryston

(New JCat Femto USB Card in my source) and the Arcam P49.

The only headphones I own are some JVC Gumys (which have been through the wash a couple of times!). I will have to rely on your assessment.

ok mate, nevermind - you could try playback on your main system, I will be doing the review hopefully tonight anyway

Takes a long time to do all this and put it all together etc.

It's true I can hear a marked difference between the different stages of your recording when I play them back through my system .

Your recent recordings have taken a giant leap forward especially take five, in fact when playing your recordings it sounds completely different to my system and takes on a lot of the charachter of your system or how I would imagine it to be having listened to your old system.

It is that good I can put myself in a virtual copy of your room and system, and no I am not exaggerating.*smile*

 

[ellisdj]

Thats great Feedback Electro mate - I really appreciate it. You have been in here as well - its changed a fair bit since you was here, speakers, acoustics, listening position but its still very much the same room vibe etc, so you know what its like first hand.

I did think they were crackers, I recorded Hotel California off the Hell Freezes over album, sadly it got blocked by YT which is a shame as it was Real Good. I have 2 more to post up - one is Opera for the fans of that music style. Then I need to do the review people care most about that.

The system sounds the best it ever has with the JCat Femto and the Arcam P49 no question - however in terms of the recordings I am using Pioneer HRM6 Headphones and I can monitor the recordings so much better. So it will be this standard or better going forward - good time to subscribe if you havent already

I am still keen to try your electro amp mate, I need to tie in with you - 1 at a time, need to finish this one first

 

[Electro]

Thats great Feedback Electro mate - I really appreciate it. You have been in here as well - its changed a fair bit since you was here, speakers, acoustics, listening position but its still very much the same room vibe etc, so you know what its like first hand.

I did think they were crackers, I recorded Hotel California off the Hell Freezes over album, sadly it got blocked by YT which is a shame as it was Real Good. I have 2 more to post up - one is Opera for the fans of that music style. Then I need to do the review people care most about that.

The system sounds the best it ever has with the JCat Femto and the Arcam P49 no question - however in terms of the recordings I am using Pioneer HRM6 Headphones and I can monitor the recordings so much better. So it will be this standard or better going forward - good time to subscribe if you havent already

I am still keen to try your electro amp mate, I need to tie in with you - 1 at a time, need to finish this one first

Give me a shout when you are ready. *good*

 

[ellisdj]

Cno mate - Review all done for you

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno mate - Review all done for you

Nice to meet you! *biggrin*

As for your review, I give it a *good* *good*

I would have the following comments:

- I still have an A&R A60 going strong in another room.

- Creek use Class G in their Evo 100A

- The letterbox vent at the front is for extra ventilation...I think there is a fan that can cut in if necessary.

- My ego is slightly hurt, that I didn't influenence your decision to try the New Refs and Arcam Class G ie. How good they are individually and especially how well they work together....or maybe I did, subliminally. Even your choice of "Take Five" as a demo track, has been one of my strong recommendations.

- I think your description of the P49 is spot on. It is a prime example of how an amp can be both detailed/revealing and musical. It plays music in a way, where it just gets out of way. You get so involved, that you forget it's there....which is also a big trait of the Refs.

- I also agree with with paying attention to isolation and cabling.

- If you ever get a chance to hear the MF AMS stuff ( I haven't heard the Nu Vista), you should take it. It takes the sound you are hearing to another level...especially Primo/AMS50.

- If you get the chance to borrow a Linn Akurate DS, you should also try it...I'd be interested to see what you think, compared with what you have.

 

[ellisdj]

Cno mate - Review all done for you

Nice to meet you! *biggrin*

As for your review, I give it a *good* *good*

I would have the following comments:

- I still have an A&R A60 going strong in another room.

- Creek use Class G in their Evo 100A

- The letterbox vent at the front is for extra ventilation...I think there is a fan that can cut in if necessary.

- My ego is slightly hurt, that I didn't influenence your decision to try the New Refs and Arcam Class G ie. How good they are individually and especially how well they work together....or maybe I did, subliminally. Even your choice of "Take Five" as a demo track, has been one of my strong recommendations.

- I think your description of the P49 is spot on. It is a prime example of how an amp can be both detailed/revealing and musical. It plays music in a way, where it just gets out of way. You get so involved, that you forget it's there....which is also a big trait of the Refs.

- I also agree with with paying attention to isolation and cabling.

- If you ever get a chance to hear the MF AMS stuff ( I haven't heard the Nu Vista), you should take it. It takes the sound you are hearing to another level...especially Primo/AMS50.

- If you get the chance to borrow a Linn Akurate DS, you should also try it...I'd be interested to see what you think, compared with what you have.

Thanks very much CNo - mate for the feedback. Am I as handsome as you expected... ???

It wasnt as good as I wanted it to be - I ended up filming it all on my own late last night, its harder than it looks - mu son is ill and I had to take him to the docors yesterday evening which ruined my plan for things. Its ok for a first go I feel, bit waffley.

I didnt know Creek had a class G amp, thats genuine. The Arcam P49 barely gets warm and its got a vented bottom, I dont think it needs another vent - to me thats more for show. Maybe it helps if you rack the amp or have it closed in on a hifi type rack with never enough space as they always dont have.

I am getting very interested to try a Musical Fidelity amp, you are definately fuelling that. I was looking at the M8 500s

How does that compare to the ones you mention - I dont know the MF range at all

I have heard a Linn Streamer - when I first demo'd the Ref's. It was a mid range one not a top of the range. Maybe I will look to test one out in the future if I can get one to loan. I think the audio pc will take all digital sources down so would be a good test.

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks very much CNo - mate for the feedback. Am I as handsome as you expected... ???

It wasnt as good as I wanted it to be - I ended up filming it all on my own late last night, its harder than it looks - mu son is ill and I had to take him to the docors yesterday evening which ruined my plan for things. Its ok for a first go I feel, bit waffley.

I didnt know Creek had a class G amp, thats genuine. The Arcam P49 barely gets warm and its got a vented bottom, I dont think it needs another vent - to me thats more for show. Maybe it helps if you rack the amp or have it closed in on a hifi type rack with never enough space as they always dont have.

I am getting very interested to try a Musical Fidelity amp, you are definately fuelling that. I was looking at the M8 500s

How does that compare to the ones you mention - I dont know the MF range at all

I have heard a Linn Streamer - when I first demo'd the Ref's. It was a mid range one not a top of the range. Maybe I will look to test one out in the future if I can get one to loan. I think the audio pc will take all digital sources down so would be a good test.

I thought you were weedy, geaky and late 20s....how wrong was I.

It is very hard to do what you did....especially if it was all "off the cuff".

Regarding MF, my view is this - The AMS amps, even the 35i, were much more musical than their powerful M series amps imo. Arcam Class G are also much more organic. This was also borne out by Acalex, Roby and Neuphonix, who all preferred the AMS35i to the M600i.

The amp I would like to hear is the Nu Vista 800 (or possibly 600), which has a Valve in the Pre, and is more likely to get closer to that Class A sound that I like so much.

IMO. The AMS 35i is very special and won HFW best Integrated amp a few years ago: http://www.bm.rs/Musical%20Fidelity/Musical%20Fidelity%20AMS%2035i%20-%20Award%20HiFi%20World%20January%202011.pdf

and made it into the top section of Stereophile's recommended components.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Good review mate

I had a Arcam FMJ P7 7 channel power amp in the 1990s for home cinema and music I do remember mine getting hot maybe they did back then so that's why it has the same vents on the P49 as my old P7 did back then .

 

[ellisdj]

That was the point I was trying to get across but didnt fully - Arcam would say its the house look but really they are being sensible / frugal using the same chassis design - obviously quite a lot of companies do this as well meridian, cyrus etc.

I think they are boxing clever with the P49 - they have made a good soundig amp thats easy to like, impossible to dislike, that you can use on loads of speakers, thats got a lot of power and is cheaper than a lot of the market, doesnt get hot and doesnt use a lot of power and is probably cheap to manufacture as they have forgone all the hifi bling nicieites

That would have been a better conclusion

 

[CnoEvil]

That was the point I was trying to get across but didnt fully - Arcam would say its the house look but really they are being sensible / frugal using the same chassis design - obviously quite a lot of companies do this as well meridian, cyrus etc.

That slot appeared on the AVR600 (which has similar Class G credentials), and this is what one review said, "At the bottom is a ventilation slot that the receiver uses for either convection or fan cooling, depending on its mood".

Don't argue....I've been doing the Arcam Class G thing since the beginning! *wink*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

That was the point I was trying to get across but didnt fully - Arcam would say its the house look but really they are being sensible / frugal using the same chassis design - obviously quite a lot of companies do this as well meridian, cyrus etc.

That slot appeared on the AVR600 (which has similar Class G credentials), and this is what one review said, "At the bottom is a ventilation slot that the receiver uses for either convection or fan cooling, depending on its mood".

Don't argue....I've been doing the Arcam Class G thing since the beginning! *wink*

I think Arcam have been doing that slot longer as this is what I had https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=arcam+p7+power+amp&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB711GB711&hl=en-US&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiP89WY_5rUAhUpDMAKHXrEBcAQ_AUICigC&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=shMPwP42Ojx42M:

 

[ellisdj]

The Slot is there on all of them to break up the pure rectangle shape - love child of a breeze block and suit case ...lol

 

[CnoEvil]

That was the point I was trying to get across but didnt fully - Arcam would say its the house look but really they are being sensible / frugal using the same chassis design - obviously quite a lot of companies do this as well meridian, cyrus etc.

That slot appeared on the AVR600 (which has similar Class G credentials), and this is what one review said, "At the bottom is a ventilation slot that the receiver uses for either convection or fan cooling, depending on its mood".

Don't argue....I've been doing the Arcam Class G thing since the beginning! *wink*

I think Arcam have been doing that slot longer as this is what I had https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=arcam+p7+power+amp&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB711GB711&hl=en-US&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiP89WY_5rUAhUpDMAKHXrEBcAQ_AUICigC&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=shMPwP42Ojx42M:

I used to have the AVR350, which didn't have the slot....the AVR600 was much more powerful and did. I believe that it has a practical function (as stated in the review I quoted), even if it was a design function carried over from the P7.

It would probably have been simpler and cheaper to make a rectangular box without it.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

That was the point I was trying to get across but didnt fully - Arcam would say its the house look but really they are being sensible / frugal using the same chassis design - obviously quite a lot of companies do this as well meridian, cyrus etc.

That slot appeared on the AVR600 (which has similar Class G credentials), and this is what one review said, "At the bottom is a ventilation slot that the receiver uses for either convection or fan cooling, depending on its mood".

Don't argue....I've been doing the Arcam Class G thing since the beginning! *wink*

I think Arcam have been doing that slot longer as this is what I had https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=arcam+p7+power+amp&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB711GB711&hl=en-US&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiP89WY_5rUAhUpDMAKHXrEBcAQ_AUICigC&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=shMPwP42Ojx42M:

I used to have the AVR350, which didn't have the slot....the AVR600 was much more powerful and did. I believe that it has a practical function (as stated in the review I quoted), even if it was a design function carried over from the P7.

It would probably have been simpler and cheaper to make a rectangular box without it.

like I said above mine did get hot but then it was a 7 channel power amp I had the Av 8 processor I think at the time it was the first THX certificate amplifier on the market . Lovely setup that was played music very well as well as movies .

 

[CnoEvil]

like I said above mine did get hot but then it was a 7 channel power amp I had the Av 8 processor I think at the time it was the first THX certificate amplifier on the market . Lovely setup that was played music very well as well as movies .

SQ wise, it had (has) a performance that is still right up there...it's just the AV8 just can't handle modern formats....though the P7 could be matched with the AV888.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

like I said above mine did get hot but then it was a 7 channel power amp I had the Av 8 processor I think at the time it was the first THX certificate amplifier on the market . Lovely setup that was played music very well as well as movies .

SQ wise, it had (has) a performance that is still right up there...it's just the AV8 just can't handle modern formats....though the P7 could be matched with the AV888.

what's crazy is they both still make good money the P7 I've seen selling for £800 mark and the Av8 around the £500 mark

 

[Native_bon]

Yes your review, that is typical Arcam sound in class G, Can't wait to get my hands on the AVR850. *good* Looking at xmas present to me on that one. *biggrin*

 

[ellisdj]

Its really good amp tech sure will be superb in an avr.

I have not long got back from taking it back. Sad to see it go but have something a bit special to test out next.. #excitedaudiophile ..

 

[CnoEvil]

Ellis, my friend....would you (or anybody else) help out on this thread, as it is more your area than mine:

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/new-rel-vs-old-rel-subwoofer