Cnet has just reviewed the new Samsung 55 oled and its blacker than any plasma ,this years flagship samsung ,Sony and panasonic are all amazing plasmas but even the calibrators at the value electronics show said they were just nit picking when it came to which was best,does anyone know all the black levels on these plasmas ,or is it all just getting a bit silly.
Other AV websites give measurements like this one:
http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/panasonic-tx-p50vt65-p15311/test.html#full-review
0.03 seems to hit reference quality. I guess they go lower than that with new OLEDs.
http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/panasonic-tx-p50vt65-p15311/test.html#full-review
0.03 seems to hit reference quality. I guess they go lower than that with new OLEDs.
chebby
Well-known member
theflyingwasp said:
The Pioneer 5090 measured in at 0.03 to 0.04 (I think), the 500a is said to go deeper perhaps, but reading all the comments and reviews this year the VT65 and ZT65 measured in the best. I can't find any links to back this up at the moment though but that is what I remember reading.
I think when you get down to these black levels (eg ZT vs VT vs Kuro) you have to be watching in absolute black-out conditions anyway to notice any difference, and even then the human eye would struggle to discern the difference. I can't say I've noticed the ZT being better than my old 5090 kuro in black levels, the main improvements I've noted have been around colour fidelity and picture clarity/sharpness.
Re OLEDs, even if I could justify the cost (which I couldn't) there's no way I'd want a curved screen, just seems like a gimmick that would be more of a distraction than a benefit?
Re OLEDs, even if I could justify the cost (which I couldn't) there's no way I'd want a curved screen, just seems like a gimmick that would be more of a distraction than a benefit?
That clears that up then 
as for the curved screen I wouldn't mind seeing one in action in the pitch black sitting right in the centre of the screen ,people on the left and right MUST be getting the short straw .
as for the curved screen I wouldn't mind seeing one in action in the pitch black sitting right in the centre of the screen ,people on the left and right MUST be getting the short straw .Interesting article on curved OLEDs here:
http://m.cnet.com/news/curved-oled-hdtv-screens-are-a-bad-idea-for-now/57589082?ds=1
http://m.cnet.com/news/curved-oled-hdtv-screens-are-a-bad-idea-for-now/57589082?ds=1
My understanding is that the KRPs still best the VT/ZT when it comes to MLL; though as Mr Malarky says, this is only relevant when watching in a blacked out room.
The debate as to whether the last Kuros remain reference televisions therefore rages on. If you think black level is the only important marker of image quality, the KRPs remain the reference. As stated above, however, newer televisions best the KRPs in other areas of picture performance and in terms of functionality.
Hopefully the curved screen will be consigned to history as/if OLED TVs become more affordable and widely owned. It seems more a case of "we did it because we could" and "this clearly distinguishes OLED from other panel technologies" than something that genuinely enhances the viewing experience.
The debate as to whether the last Kuros remain reference televisions therefore rages on. If you think black level is the only important marker of image quality, the KRPs remain the reference. As stated above, however, newer televisions best the KRPs in other areas of picture performance and in terms of functionality.
Hopefully the curved screen will be consigned to history as/if OLED TVs become more affordable and widely owned. It seems more a case of "we did it because we could" and "this clearly distinguishes OLED from other panel technologies" than something that genuinely enhances the viewing experience.
Son_of_SJ
Well-known member
theflyingwasp said:
I didn't realise that Sony made plasmas, certainly I've not heard of Sony plasmas in Britain .....
mr malarky said:
When Steve Withers was calibrating my sets, he said that there was very little between a ninth-generation Pioneer Kuro, the VT and the ZT for pure black level. And I certainly don't, and don't want to, watch in absolute black-out conditions.
mr malarky said:
That curved OLED screen is a seriously BAD IDEA, fine if you are in the middle but distorted if you are sitting to either side. About as bad an idea as the pen that Panasonic have given to owners of VT and ZT plasmas to write on their precious sets with, grrrr! |(
Son_of_SJ said:
I don't often, but it's nice to turn the lights off once in a while to watch a film. 3D movies are certainly best viewed in a blacked-out room, though obviously the KRPs are pre-3D televisions and the conversation becomes redundant. MLL is typically sacrificed with 3D viewing anyway. It's one of the trade-offs for the extra panel luminance 3D viewing demands.
Yes I doubt anyone has used that daft pen to write on their £3000 TV screen ,yes eh perhaps I should read what I post first Sony did pull out of the plasma market a while back,
I always draw the blackout curtains when watching movies ,with the sound cranked up and the room in almost complete darkness I feel you get drawn into the movie more,was at the cinema last year watching dark shadows and there was a problem with the light the first 30mins of the film was shown with the lights on it was very very weird.
As for oled ,curved oled and 4k I'm very bored of it already,it will have to take something very special for me to upgrade from the ZT ,this whole no content farce with 4k is the main reason and as for this Sony streaming service for u.s Sony 4k owners I wouldn't stream a film from my ipad to my tv let alone that for $700 ,I will just wait till there is a disc of some sort to put into my new blu/red/pink player.i also feel that someone who can actually afford the 25grand Sony 84 inch 4k TV has better things to do in life than watch movies.
I always draw the blackout curtains when watching movies ,with the sound cranked up and the room in almost complete darkness I feel you get drawn into the movie more,was at the cinema last year watching dark shadows and there was a problem with the light the first 30mins of the film was shown with the lights on it was very very weird.
As for oled ,curved oled and 4k I'm very bored of it already,it will have to take something very special for me to upgrade from the ZT ,this whole no content farce with 4k is the main reason and as for this Sony streaming service for u.s Sony 4k owners I wouldn't stream a film from my ipad to my tv let alone that for $700 ,I will just wait till there is a disc of some sort to put into my new blu/red/pink player.i also feel that someone who can actually afford the 25grand Sony 84 inch 4k TV has better things to do in life than watch movies.
Son_of_SJ
Well-known member
When our good friend gel started the ZT60 thread he said
and we all bought into that, for a while anyway, until the various TVs were tested side by side. Ah well. I suspect, with no real knowledge, that there is probably not much real benefit to be gained by trying to get beyond the ZT / 9th generation Kuro / VT levels of blackness, certainly not while using current plasma technology.
gel said:
and we all bought into that, for a while anyway, until the various TVs were tested side by side. Ah well. I suspect, with no real knowledge, that there is probably not much real benefit to be gained by trying to get beyond the ZT / 9th generation Kuro / VT levels of blackness, certainly not while using current plasma technology.
Son_of_SJ said:
Deepest black levels CNET have tested the ZT65:
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/tvs/panasonic-tx-p60zt65-review-50011762/
I suppose we will just have to wait for the measurements and reports on OLED TVs.
The ZT65 doesn't best the KRPs in terms of black level. OLED TVs should edge it, if tech review sites such as AV and AVS ever get their hands on one.
strapped for cash said:
I guess it comes down to opinions because they reviewed the Pioneers too:
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/tvs/pioneer-kuro-pdp-lx5090-review-49298909/
From what I understand it is about the same.
gel said:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/zt65-kuro-201305283044.htm
The KRPs still best any other plasma TV in terms of MLL, even the ZT65. That said, anti-reflective filters have improved, so the Panasonics hold onto their black level better with ambient light in the room. If you're watching in a batcave, the KRPs still take the prize.
If all the current flagship Tvs were £1000-£1500 I'd have no problem buying a new tv every year but at £3000-£4000 no chance .even if oled Tvs come out with absolute black levels all of us with VT's and ZT's aren't going to upgrade because they are going to cost a fortune .mr strapped for cash has the 65inch VT can you imagine how much a 75inch oled will cost ,we all want excellent picture quality but not if I have to sacrifice screen size.
if you're tv is just for television and movies the current flagship Tvs and last generation kuro are excellent.the ZT has a black level of 0.02 am I really going to upgrade to get absolute black levels for possibly £5000-£8000 .the calibrators at the value electronics even said that they were nitpicking this year to which set was the best.there wasnt a massive leap in picture quality from last years tvs .i feel the Samsung will be the best seller due to the fact it has the best day time mode .
hopefully in 2 years there will be a 75inch oled for about £3000 I doubt it but only then would I upgrade from the ZT
if you're tv is just for television and movies the current flagship Tvs and last generation kuro are excellent.the ZT has a black level of 0.02 am I really going to upgrade to get absolute black levels for possibly £5000-£8000 .the calibrators at the value electronics even said that they were nitpicking this year to which set was the best.there wasnt a massive leap in picture quality from last years tvs .i feel the Samsung will be the best seller due to the fact it has the best day time mode .
hopefully in 2 years there will be a 75inch oled for about £3000 I doubt it but only then would I upgrade from the ZT
'Every time you try to operate one of these weird black controls, which are labeled in black on a black background, a small black light lights up black to let you know you've done it.'
Son_of_SJ
Well-known member
theflyingwasp said:
If you seriously think a technology that at present has a usable yield rate of only 10% for larger screen sizes will by two years' time produce a 75-inch display for only £3,000, you must have been consuming an impressive amount of recreational pharmaceuticals.
Yes I doubt it but its good to hope,the reason I said 75inch is because I've went 40,50,60 inches so I will only be upgrading to 70 and above I'm not spending almost 4grand again on a screen of the same size or 5inches more,no matter how good the reviews of black levels etc.............it may be a long wait.
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