HELP!!! Speaker Cables for Monitor Audio RS8 system

[Anonymous]

ag777:
Hi,

Trevor, just a few questions...

Instead of Claritycap could it be say Jantzen Superior Z-Cap 800-1200 VDC 2% 3.9 uF and 6.8 uF? It's only a matter of availability in our region.

How do you estimate difference between standard 4 / 6 uF and 3.9/6.8 uF capacitors - is any significant change in crossover frequency separation heared?

And the last...Have you experimented with coils, not only with capacitors?

Thanks in advance.

Hi, just picked up your post.

Tony Gee who has done much work testing and reporting on Caps (www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html) rate the Jantzen Superior-Z-Caps.
He says.....
Jantzen Audio Superior Z-Cap MKP 800VDC - 2% tolerance

Sound: Very neutral and coherent balance, they don't seem to highlight anything and I mean that in a positive way! They are a little flatter in presentation than their more expensive brother, the Silver Z-Cap but still better than the Clarity Cap SA in depth and spatial information. In direct comparison with a Clarity Cap SA they are less up-front in the lower treble and have a very good texturing of acoustic instruments like a violin for example. In the upper treble they are slightly brighter than a Mundorf Silver/Gold which probably explains the good spatial information and separation. Compared to the Jantzen Audio Silver Z-Cap I find them the more musical of the two and I will definitely add them to my favourites list.
See if you can get some Vishay MKP1837 to bypass them with as they improve things further still.

I have found the 3.9uf and 6.8uf to work very well, have no cross over frequency issues with them on listening, transparency, depth, detail and as Tony says spatial information is amazing in comparison to the replaced items.

Coils? Oh yes!

Have used the Mundorf foil-coils CFC-14's on my RS8's and centre speaker so now my crossover units are really 'high end' having musical texture and unfounded detail in many tracks played.
My AV system now sounds 'Valve like' on music. So am very pleased with how I have tweaked it.

www.hificollective.co.uk/components/mundorf_foilcoils.html

 

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I did the crossover mod with ClarityCap ESA with Vishay bypass and they sound much better.

How much time do you thing it takes to run them in.

What values of Mundorf foil-coils CFC-14 have you used.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks a lot, Trevor!

Just in addition to what defjam1975 asks you - which coils have been replaced -L1, L2,L3, L4? Or you mean only L2 (0.8 mH) in midrange speaker crossover?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi guys, replacing with Clarity Caps SA does make quite a difference doesn't it. Sounds like a much better speaker with timing, openness and detail much improved.
Mine sounded better and better over about 2 months, and seeing they are used for watching TV that's a few hours!

L2 coils were replaced with .8 and .6 BA140's on the RS8's and Centre respectively.
L3/L4 0.2mf CFC-14 on all.
Oh wired internally with 4TC Kimber Kable and crossovers hard wired with solid copper wire. A big job, took me around 6 Hrs a speaker.It's a tight fit getting the Crossover units into the cabinet, careful positioning of the much larger (and heavier) components.

The speakers have disappeared now, all I have is beautiful sound and presence. Even the TV sounds brilliant.
Acoustical music played off the HD is like it is live in the room.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

trevor79:Hi guys, replacing with Clarity Caps SA does make quite a difference doesn't it. Sounds like a much better speaker with timing, openness and detail much improved.
Mine sounded better and better over about 2 months, and seeing they are used for watching TV that's a few hours!

L2 coils were replaced with .8 and .6 BA140's on the RS8's and Centre respectively.
L3/L4 0.2mf CFC-14 on all.
Oh wired internally with 4TC Kimber Kable and crossovers hard wired with solid copper wire. A big job, took me around 6 Hrs a speaker.It's a tight fit getting the Crossover units into the cabinet, careful positioning of the much larger (and heavier) components.

The speakers have disappeared now, all I have is beautiful sound and presence. Even the TV sounds brilliant.
Acoustical music played off the HD is like it is live in the room.

Trevor, serious question here. How much would it cost do you think to buy the necessary caps etc, and pay for someone to do the work? And more importantly, how much do you think it would cost to buy a speaker that would better my RS6s once this work has been done?

 

[Anonymous]

Just replacing the Caps is a straight forward job once you have stripped the Crossover from the speakers and got them on the bench.
It always takes longer to do the 1st one as you work out where to re site the larger caps.

You will have to get some quotes as I do the work myself for myself so have little idea what is charged by professionals.
The caps cost me around £50 and the Inductors £120 for the front 3 speakers. Add the cost of 4TC Kimber @ £27 mtr and that is the parts costs.

Just upgrading the Caps and bypassing them will make them sound better than the Golds giving a Spendor type sound. Doing the full upgrades I would put the RS8's in a blind test against the Monitor Audio Platinum's priced around £6k. Even they do not have this quality of crossover components in them.

Upgrading speaker crossovers on decent equipment is excellent value for money. If done well you will not come across many original speakers that match the performance in my opinion.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, everybody!

Trevor, do you think that implementation of 6.8uF instead of 6 and therefore putting down tweeter crossover frequency (it should be approx 2700Hz with 6.8uF- like of Gold Signature) contributes to overall improvement as well?

 

[Gerrardasnails]

trevor79:Just replacing the Caps is a straight forward job once you have stripped the Crossover from the speakers and got them on the bench.
It always takes longer to do the 1st one as you work out where to re site the larger caps.

You will have to get some quotes as I do the work myself for myself so have little idea what is charged by professionals.
The caps cost me around £50 and the Inductors £120 for the front 3 speakers. Add the cost of 4TC Kimber @ £27 mtr and that is the parts costs.

Just upgrading the Caps and bypassing them will make them sound better than the Golds giving a Spendor type sound. Doing the full upgrades I would put the RS8's in a blind test against the Monitor Audio Platinum's priced around £6k. Even they do not have this quality of crossover components in them.

Upgrading speaker crossovers on decent equipment is excellent value for money. If done well you will not come across many original speakers that match the performance in my opinion.

Surely though, if those sort of improvements (£800 speaker + £200 say of mods) can be made to get the equivalent of a £6k speaker, everyone would be doing it? Is it just the caps that make such a difference with the speakers sound? I love my RS6s but I'm always open to learn and improve things. I have to say I'm a little sceptical. Would be interested to hear what Clare, Andrew, and any others think about all this.

 

[Anonymous]

ag777:
Hi, everybody!

Trevor, do you think that implementation of 6.8uF instead of 6 and therefore putting down tweeter crossover frequency (it should be approx 2700Hz with 6.8uF- like of Gold Signature) contributes to overall improvement as well?

It is a step to the positive in bringing out benefits in using high end components in the crossovers.

 

[Anonymous]

Gerrardasnails:trevor79:Just replacing the Caps is a straight forward job once you have stripped the Crossover from the speakers and got them on the bench.
It always takes longer to do the 1st one as you work out where to re site the larger caps.

You will have to get some quotes as I do the work myself for myself so have little idea what is charged by professionals.
The caps cost me around £50 and the Inductors £120 for the front 3 speakers. Add the cost of 4TC Kimber @ £27 mtr and that is the parts costs.

Just upgrading the Caps and bypassing them will make them sound better than the Golds giving a Spendor type sound. Doing the full upgrades I would put the RS8's in a blind test against the Monitor Audio Platinum's priced around £6k. Even they do not have this quality of crossover components in them.

Upgrading speaker crossovers on decent equipment is excellent value for money. If done well you will not come across many original speakers that match the performance in my opinion.

Surely though, if those sort of improvements (£800 speaker + £200 say of mods) can be made to get the equivalent of a £6k speaker, everyone would be doing it? Is it just the caps that make such a difference with the speakers sound? I love my RS6s but I'm always open to learn and improve things. I have to say I'm a little sceptical. Would be interested to hear what Clare, Andrew, and any others think about all this.

I understand your point, one of the big things that influence the sound produced is the quality of the crossover components.
Every one is not doing it because few have the knowledge/inclination or ability to build a decent crossover unit using high end parts. Unless you have hands on experience in doing so a reviewer will have little listening experience to evaluate such things. Quite simply it is not there area of expertise.

Many years ago I was myself amazed by how my Rogers speakers (regarded then as something special) could be taken to such heights that I never heard anything to even get close to the mid range perfection on anything at any price that I heard in quality Hi Fi dealers.
They are still a reference point for me.

My RS8 system is now another. Complete with dedicated 40A Mains Spur, BT conditioning Units, Kimber power kords, 4TC cable, 125CT coax cable feeds, hard wired CB supplies, excellent equipment supports, room furnishings, and one or two internal tweaks to equipment. = Total enjoyment! No compromise

 

[Anonymous]

I have just looked inside my Bronze speaker and found the same XPP capacitor as in my RS8!!! Coils seem to be similar as well.

 

[bigblue235]

trevor79:I understand your point, one of the big things that influence the sound produced is the quality of the crossover components. Every one is not doing it because few have the knowledge/inclination or ability to build a decent crossover unit using high end parts. Unless you have hands on experience in doing so a reviewer will have little listening experience to evaluate such things. Quite simply it is not there area of expertise.

But it is Monitor Audio's (and many other speaker manufacturers) area of expertise. I'm sure there's people working at those companies that have a level of knowledge that far exceeds any passionate enthusiast, and I have no doubt these people are well aware of the benefits, or otherwise, of upgrading the parts you mention. Surely they would have been doing it for years if it genuinely is as impressive as you suggest?

I think Gerrardasnails is spot on, if you could make an £800 speaker sound like a £6000 one, for 200 quid, everyone would be doing it. If you didn't have the knowledge to do it, this wouldn't be a problem, as there would no doubt be a mass of people prepared to do it for you, as the market would be huge. Anyone who had the budget to buy a speaker costing more than £1000 would be doing it, and the speaker market would be a whole different place.

With the greatest of respect, if your ideas were as effective as you suggest, it would imply that you know something that none of the speaker manufacturers do. I'd love it to be the case, but I just can't see it

If it is, you're missing a trick, you should be in the loudspeaker business!

 

[Anonymous]

The tech boys certainly are aware of higher quality components available from the various manufacturers, but they are building their speaker ranges to certain price points and like for like competition.

At the end of the day the crossover units used in say the RS8's cost as little as £60 each which is £120 a pair x mark up on a £800 speaker.

It is not economic to put say £250 units into a £800 speaker, so it doesn't happen.

 

[Anonymous]

Do the drivers have an impact at all? The size of the box? The bracing? The materials used to build the box?

 

[Anonymous]

Yep

 

[Anonymous]

But I presume not as important as the crossover components?

 

[bigblue235]

Trevor, it's not solely your experiences I disagree with, more just all the current excitement with modding things. I'm know there are improvements to be had by the process, I'm just a little unconvinced by the levels of improvement supposedly attainable.

trevor79:The tech boys certainly are aware of higher quality components available from the various manufacturers, but they are building their speaker ranges to certain price points and like for like competition.

At the end of the day the crossover units used in say the RS8's cost as little as £60 each which is £120 a pair x mark up on a £800 speaker. It is not economic to put say £250 units into a £800 speaker, so it doesn't happen.

But it would be very economical to put them in more expensive speakers, surely?

I don't know how much you spent on mods, but you mention £250, so I'll go with that!

Even if you add another few hundred quid for a better cabinet and improving the look of the thing, it would still be a very cheap way to build a £6k speaker, or a very good way of building a £2k speaker that would have the market sewn up!

Sorry for not really being convinced, but I banged my head while in the loft fetching my original Playstation (anyone remember the fuss that it supposedly sounded like a £1000+ CD player?) and I've been a bit of a sceptic ever since

 

[Anonymous]

When my warranty is up i will definitly upgrade the componets in my RS8's

 

[Anonymous]

whasaaaab:When my warranty is up i will definitly upgrade the componets in my RS8's

Then I'd start with the drivers, since these have more impact on the sound. If you want to find out more about it, Vince Dickason's books are a good start.

 

[Anonymous]

I have just finished upgrade of my RS8's. Amazing sound!

 

[Anonymous]

Good to hear that you are amazed!

No doubt you will be giving them a good listen to over the coming weeks, they will bed in and improve further over the next 100 hours.

What upgrades did you do?

 

[Anonymous]

I used Mundorf Supreme caps (6.8 and 3.9), Mundorf CFC16 0.82mH coil, Jantzen Round Coils 0.2mH, Jantzen 10W MOX 1.8Ohm, only left existing coil for Bass filter. Internal wiring -Chord Odyssey. Bass filter was placed separately into lower bass reflex section, mid and high frequency filters were mounted on a piece of plywood. You can download some pics from here (safely!) http://files.mail.ru/4WLR2D

I can say that now sound of my RS's is much better than of ProAc Studio 140 I have recently auditioned.

 

[Anonymous]

Very good, now by pass the Mundorf supremes with Vishay MKP1837 (cheap as chips) and you will get a much more focused sound taking away the grainy edge on them.

Looked at the pics, nice work, I left the bass section alone as well

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Trevor, your experience inspired me to launch this "project" and I am more than satisfied with results!

I have ordered Vishay caps from RS components and expect to get them winthin 3-4 weeks, however even now there is no graininess is audible, maybe this is because of my hybrid tube/solid state amp. Won't it be too bright trebble with Vishays and did you compare sound before bypassing your Clarity Caps with Vishays and after?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi ag,

On this occasion I did not do a comparison on by passing v not bypassing.

I know from past experience the results of doing that (with listening to the results) so I do by pass as a matter of course, it really helps to bring things more into focus.
So much so that the hairs on the back of your neck stand up with the realism played in the music.

I look forward to your 1st impressions on listening to the difference!

Thank you for your compliments, its nice to see people following with an open mind and experiencing things for themselves.