HELP - Denon AVR-1909 - Sound NOT as good as 5 year-old Marantz SR5200

[admin_exported]

Hi,

I live in the States and I purchased the Denon AVR-1909 to replace an aging (5 yo) Marantz SR5200. I based my purchase on the supertest review in WHF and chose it over the Onkyo SR606 which amazingly sells for almost half the price of the 1909 overseas. The reason I paid the hefty premium for the 1909 is that it's the only receiver in my budget offering Dynamic Volume which is a new feature that I'm very interested in since I have 2 young children and I do most of my gaming and movie-watching while they're asleep. I know that reviews are never a substitute for first person auditions but the stores are simply too far away and our living room with a cathedral ceiling and rooms on 3 sides of the room cannot be reproduced in any store. I'd also used WHF reviews in narrowing down my choices 5 years ago when I purchased the Marantz and my speakers. My speakers consist of 2 pairs of B&W 601S3 and LCR60 for the center speaker.

We use the receiver 50% of the time for TV (HD & SD), 20% for movies (Blu-Ray & DVD), 20% for music (AAC, MP3) and 10% for gaming.

Sonically, I was expecting the Denon 1909 to blow me away with all the new HD audio formats and advances in technology but that, unfortunately, has NOT been the case - in fact, both my wife and I agree that the 1909 lacks the soundstage and clarity of the SR5200. I've run the Audyssey auto-setup and when I enable any of the Audyssey features, the sound is distorted. Voices just don't sound the same - Patrick Stewart with his super distinct voice sounds nothing like Patrick Stewart and Michael Buble sounds like Rick Astley. There is a Pure Direct mode which removes that distortion and makes voices sound natural but the music is not as warm or engaging as it was with my old SR5200 - we can certainly listen to it but songs that would normally stir us up emotionally and have us reach for a glass of wine, leave us devoid of emotion. While the Denon plays lows and highs very clearly, there seems to be a missing dimension in the sound that I'm guessing has to be the midrange. I'm trying to find any possible way to like this receiver and not return it to the store simply because my back is still aching from hooking it up which is why I'm asking for help on this forum. On the positive side, the Denon 1909 is much faster than the Marantz 5200 when it comes to movie effects and explosions and delivers them with an authority that has to be heard to be appreciated.

Is there anything I can do to improve the sound of the Denon 1909? Should I just return it and stick with my old receiver (and maybe purchase new speakers instead)? Is there another AV receiver out there that is more musically inclined than the Denon such as the Marantz SR4003, Sony DG920 & ES2400 or Onkyo SR606? I thought Denon and Marantz would deliver similar sound since they merged but that may not be the case.

Cheers,

Michael Tzoanos

 

[ALTANPSX]

For my experience with b&w & and denon, I can say that b&w and denon are not neither a good friends nor a bad friends, and also Marantz A/V receivers are always known as a solid stereo performer(do not expect a real stereo amp. performance), also 1909 is not the star of the Denon, it is an entry level amp.

I think in your case, you are used to marantz sound. Sometimes, we may get used to bad or good sounds, after then we cannot accept any other sound it does not matter it is good or bad.

You may try few things; changing old cables, manuel calibration...etc.

But, I understand that you did all the auto-calibration, and mauel calibration, and you are not still happy or satisfied. I think decision has been made. Send it back to your dealer and, try to audition something different, may be Marantz , Yamaha, Onkyo (Yamaha ht performance is amazing but do not expect much from stereo)

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the reply. I agree that a decision has pretty much been made given the fact that the Denon does not sound as good even in Pure Direct mode. I've done manual calibration but that hasn't helped much either.

I think that the Denon may just not be the ideal partner for the B&W 601S3 especially in my acoustically challenged house. When I purchased my first receiver, I had auditioned many receivers and speakers from many other manufacturers and the combination of the B&W 601S3 and SR5200 was pretty much unbeatable at the price range - the dealer later mentioned that he was sure that I'd go with the Marantz when I showed up with half a dozen CDs and as many movies and that seems to resonate with your comment about Marantz delivering better stereo. The Marantz gave a little bit away in HT to some receivers (usually more expensive ones) but it gained everything back and then some when playing music.

You're also right that my wife and I have probably gotten used to the sound of the Marantz over the past 5 years and I was afraid of that when I purchased the Denon. At the same time I can't help but feel that there's definitely something missing from the Denon 1909 - it's not just an equal but different sound. I'd done more auditions a couple of years ago, and I didn't buy anything since the new formats were coming out, but I could definitely tell that some high-end AV receivers and speakers sounded great and better than my own gear at home.

 

[ALTANPSX]

I tried marantz 7002 with b&w 683. Movie performance is fair not too bright, not so flat, in the mean time nothing amazing, but stereo performance was amazing. Also I can offer you Rotel rsx 1057. Stereo mode in this amp. is far more better then lot's of stereo amp.'s. But Rotel is an old amp., and some new formats not supported. Last word......forever Marantz

 

[Anonymous]

The 7002 is definitely a high-end AV receiver and I would be surprised if it doesn't sound significantly better than the 5200. I might grab one when the 7003 is released and it hopefully drops in price. Rotel is definitely another manufacturer that I would love to audition since the reviews are stellar and they always praise its musical skills. Are you selling the 1057?

 

[ALTANPSX]

Sorry my english, I just recommend 1057

 

[Anonymous]

If you've been using an amp for so long you're used to the way it sounds to your ears and you've accepted that as good.

Now the Denon is brand new and will sound different no matter what you set it up like. It might be worth living with it for a couple of weeks to see what it turns out like.

 

[Anonymous]

One of the things that affect the sound coming out of a receiver is the room size. This is why the receiver that sounded good in the showroom does not feel that great at home. If you have the space then you should play around with your speakers to get the optimum sound. Speaker calibration is another way to improve the sound, even if you have opted for automatic setup. Automatic setup work best when the room is rectangular or the reflections from the speakers are hitting the right spots.

 

[Anonymous]

But don't live with it so long that you are no longer allowed to return it!

My Denon is now worth £150 second hand and all I can say to you is that perhaps you should think about a second hand amp. You can get some bargains for the same money as the Denon 1909 you could buy a second hand Onkyo 875. This will blow both your Denon, Marantz and my Denon out of the water.

The speakers you have are better than the Denon amp you bought. So although it's new, it's not a step forwards in terms of the quality of the amplifier stage within. This is, after all, the part driving your speakers. You need to like how it sounds!

 

[Anonymous]

I really appreciate all your comments. I think I will end up returning the Denon. I think I'm used to the sound of my old receiver but I also think that my living room simply doesn't work that well with the Audyssey set-up. After manual setup, I lose the option to use Dynamic Volume which was one of the main reasons that I bought the receiver in the first place. The Denon brings almost nothing new to the table other than making me realize how much l liked the sound of my old receiver.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if THD (total harmonic distortion) makes a difference? My old Marantz was rated at <0.05% THD and the Denon is rated at 0.09%. I've looked online and the few AV receivers with 0.05% THD are the flagship Denon AVR-5308CI and the Yamaha RX-Z11 which cost 8 times more than the AVR-1909. Is it possible that as more technologies such as channels, switches, remotes, hd decoders for AV Receivers have been introduced that manufacturers have had to make compromises and that the quality (and by that I mean clarity) of sound has actually degraded for the average receiver with the exception of the top-of-the-line receivers? Of course, no manufacturer will willingly admit that but I find it hard to believe that manufacturers can offer the same quality at the same price point as more and more features have been added.