HDMI Leads exposed

[Anonymous]

MMmmm.... I agree a special bit of kit deserves special interconnects.
Who in their right minds would fit partly worn tyres to a new Jag?

On the other hand, there is the placebo effect to be taken into consideration.
If you have the money to spare, you will surely be impressed at what you are able to spend.

 

[Andrew Everard]

AllisonX:hdmi is digital... 0's and 1's?

The siganl either gets there or it doesn't.

AllisonX:On the other hand, there is the placebo effect to be taken into consideration.

Eyes down and look in, lazengems: the next game of Cable Thread Buzzword Bingo is at last underway...

 

[idc]

AllisonX:

hdmi is digital... 0's and 1's?

The siganl either gets there or it doesn't. The good thing about hdmi is error correction..... so if the signal sent isnt correctly received then it is re-requested.

As such, there shouldn't be any real difference in which cable you use (when comparing cables of the same hdmi standards).

Maybe, maybe not?

Hi AlisonX. Digital is not just 1s and 0s when it comes to continuous transmission of a signal for audio. There is also a 'tick' embedded in the signal which is for timing. If the timing is out, which it always is to one degree or another, that is called jitter. More details here

http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/385137.aspx

Jitter does not matter with the sending of data such as a word document for printing. In that case the data is sent, error checked and once all received it is printed. Audio and visual signals are continuous and have to be processed on the go in real time as no one wants gaps in the music or film.

There is evidence by measuring jitter that it can be increased by a cable. Higher frequencies can be delayed more so than lower frequencies by bandwidth as they travel through a cable. RFI and EMI can also cause a signal to slow. Both cases are jitter. Then there is the resistence at the point the wire is connected to the connector. That too can cause jitter.

There is however no definitive proof that jitter is a problem and the cause of digital cables sounding different. But it more of an explanation than studying only the 1s and 0s.

 

[Anonymous]

AllisonX, you are spot on. Digital is digital! Ones and Zeros. If there were bits missing in a signal you'd have either blocks missing in the picture or sound similar to a scratched CD. I get annoyed when so called experts brainwash people into thinking that expensive digital interconnects make a difference. They do not!!

One mistake people make is likening digital to analogue. Analogue waveforms are affected by the electrical charateristics of a cable and there is definitely reason to choose the best you can afford. Digital however is not. All the ones and zeros transmtted by, say a DVD player are sent in 'packets'. Each packet is sent with a 'checksum' which is a record of let's say the total value of all the ones and zeros. If the TV receices a packet with some bits missing, it will ask for that packet to be sent again. Because this is done at extremely high speed there is no loss to the quality.

Toslink optical cables are digital but you read reviews that one gives a better sound than another. Absolute TOSH!! They would sound the same unless one was damaged or dirty then it would sound really bad.

There are sites on the internet that have performed the same cable tests as in the video and proved there is no difference. The human brain can play tricks on us so the science should be deciding factor.

Wise up guys and girls, don't believe these type of statements from the marketeers who have a vested interest in you being fooled!

 

[Andrew Everard]

As I keep saying, if you believe there are no differences, or are unable to see any, then save your money, feel smug that you've done so, and enjoy your system.

We only report what we see/hear in our tests - it's as simple as that.

 

[idc]

adh147:

AllisonX, you are spot on. Digital is digital! Ones and Zeros. If there were bits missing in a signal you'd have either blocks missing in the picture or sound similar to a scratched CD. I get annoyed when so called experts brainwash people into thinking that expensive digital interconnects make a difference. They do not!!

You have misssed out the clock signal that is also sent, see my above post. You are right about the 1s and 0s becoming faulty would be obvious, but that is not the whole issue.

adh147:

One mistake people make is likening digital to analogue. Analogue waveforms are affected by the electrical charateristics of a cable and there is definitely reason to choose the best you can afford. Digital however is not. All the ones and zeros transmtted by, say a DVD player are sent in 'packets'. Each packet is sent with a 'checksum' which is a record of let's say the total value of all the ones and zeros. If the TV receices a packet with some bits missing, it will ask for that packet to be sent again. Because this is done at extremely high speed there is no loss to the quality.

A digital signal is sent in an analogue waveform in coax and USB and on/off light in optical. The data is sent continuously, whether in a packet or not and so there is little time for the DAC to get it right, so it is very dependent on the correct timing of the signal. This is measured in pico seconds or one million millionth of a second. You are right about making sure the 1s and 0s are all present and correct, but what about the timing of the 1s and 0s? It is different for the checked packages sent by the likes of a PC to printer.

 

[Anonymous]

This was not meant to be a slur on the WHF reviewers Andrew. You guys do a great job and have always encouraged people to have a demo and make up their own minds. Very sound advice. Look forward to the next issue.

 

[Andrew Everard]

S'OK, didn't take it as such.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi idc, your earlier post is extremely good, an enjoyable read.

 

[Anonymous]

as andrew clare and co always say try before you buy if it works for you cool if not be smug hand it back.
i felt the same till i heard the exellent nordost demo 2 years ago he had 20 grand power cables out of my reach but hell what a difference.
he did however have 5pound speaker cable?

 

[007L2Thrill]

idc:AllisonX:

hdmi is digital... 0's and 1's?

The siganl either gets there or it doesn't. The good thing about hdmi is error correction..... so if the signal sent isnt correctly received then it is re-requested.

As such, there shouldn't be any real difference in which cable you use (when comparing cables of the same hdmi standards).

Maybe, maybe not?

Hi AlisonX. Digital is not just 1s and 0s when it comes to continuous transmission of a signal for audio. There is also a 'tick' embedded in the signal which is for timing. If the timing is out, which it always is to one degree or another, that is called jitter. More details here

http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/385137.aspx

Jitter does not matter with the sending of data such as a word document for printing. In that case the data is sent, error checked and once all received it is printed. Audio and visual signals are continuous and have to be processed on the go in real time as no one wants gaps in the music or film.

There is evidence by measuring jitter that it can be increased by a cable. Higher frequencies can be delayed more so than lower frequencies by bandwidth as they travel through a cable. RFI and EMI can also cause a signal to slow. Both cases are jitter. Then there is the resistence at the point the wire is connected to the connector. That too can cause jitter.

There is however no definitive proof that jitter is a problem and the cause of digital cables sounding different. But it more of an explanation than studying only the 1s and 0s.

I could not put it better my self.

I mean I don't care less if anybody else can not hear the difference in sound on different cables as I can and that is what matters, I can hear differences in mains fuses when they are just turned around, not a major difference but a worth while improvement.

As for HDMI cables there are differences mainly in audio going to a good AMP, if you turn around an optical cable and try it in both directions there should be no difference but again there is, mainly it's in the high frequency the improvement comes in and that's where most peoples hearing is different, my sister just can not hear anything above 10Khz, but me I can hear a high pitched sound coming from my hover plus my PC sometimes and some light bulbs, so I have sensitive hearing, such as the WHF team so the smallest differences you can hear, if anybody is like my sister she can not hear any differences from my high end monocle XL speaker cable to my IXOS 6003 cable.

Next week I am going to try my high end IXOS HDMI cables to some cheap ones I brought and a midrange one to see if there is any difference in picture quality "be interesting".

Have a good weekend Guys!