Who says there will be an end to the HD format war? With a large companies like Paramount and Dreamworks backing HDdvd and Sony using Blu Ray as the medium for its PS3 games, how can there be an end? Or even a war for that matter? The so called 'dvd format war' must be a sign of how this HD war will end, as we still use all the formats that competed against each other. (DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, DVD-RAM).
HDDVD vs. BLU RAY
- Thread starter admin_exported
- Start date
Yes, think we're in for the long haul on this one. Given the background of the Paramount/Dreamworks decision, it could just come down to which format has supporting hardware companies willing to splash the most cash.
LG already produce one - the Super Multi Blue, as tested in current issue. Admittedly it's not perfect - it's essentially a Blu-ray player modded to play HD DVD discs without their online functionality - but it's not half bad.
Samsung is readying a hybrid player that it claims will offer full functionality on both formats, too.
It was the way-forward on DVD Recorders - which are now widely available as multi-format designs - and DVD-Audio/SACD, and it could be the case here, too. Here's hoping....
Samsung is readying a hybrid player that it claims will offer full functionality on both formats, too.
It was the way-forward on DVD Recorders - which are now widely available as multi-format designs - and DVD-Audio/SACD, and it could be the case here, too. Here's hoping....
[quote user="Tallyho"]
What about a Hybrid HDDVD/BLURAY to play either format
[/quote] what about it? its just LG getting their fingers in as many pies as are available in my eyes. It is by no means the end of the battle. By putting the future of the PS3 solely on Blu Ray, Sony must have made the BD format a format of permanence? Unless we see the death of the PS3 Blu Ray will always be with us.
What about a Hybrid HDDVD/BLURAY to play either format
[/quote] what about it? its just LG getting their fingers in as many pies as are available in my eyes. It is by no means the end of the battle. By putting the future of the PS3 solely on Blu Ray, Sony must have made the BD format a format of permanence? Unless we see the death of the PS3 Blu Ray will always be with us.
The reason the PS3 has a blu-ray drive and not a dvd or hd-dvd based one is simply due to the fact that Sony were one of the major investors behind the development of blu-ray and a major backer of the entire blu-ray campaign, they are hardly going to use a hd-dvd drive sre they?
The PS3 is a games console and the choice of drive unit instaled is normally down to the storage space avalible on said medium if it be cd/dvd/blu-ray etc.Blu-Ray is simlpy a storage device and it is down to the develpoers to chose what typr of information they wish to stor on it, if it be a game, music or video for example dvd-video, dvd-audio, dvd-rom etc the disk it is stored on is still the same type of disk.
Sony are hardly going to make a unit capible of playing a rival format are they? This is also a reason that some of the major movie studio's are behing Blu-ray and not hd-dvd, the fact that they are owned solely or in part by Sony. Have you never noticed that in Sony studio owned movies all electronics in the movie are Sony producs?
Now dont get me wrong I dont have anything against Sony I own a few Sony products PSP, PS2 but did not buy these products solely on the fact that they are made by Sony as you would apear to Richard, so baseing any discussion on the fact that blu-ray as a hd video sorce simply because Sony use a bd drive in the PS3 is a little weak. PS3 sales world wide are hardly spectacular are they, hence recent price cuts in America and bundled extras here.
As for your aparant love of Sony making the best products anyone rember Betamax or mini disc???
The PS3 is a games console and the choice of drive unit instaled is normally down to the storage space avalible on said medium if it be cd/dvd/blu-ray etc.Blu-Ray is simlpy a storage device and it is down to the develpoers to chose what typr of information they wish to stor on it, if it be a game, music or video for example dvd-video, dvd-audio, dvd-rom etc the disk it is stored on is still the same type of disk.
Sony are hardly going to make a unit capible of playing a rival format are they? This is also a reason that some of the major movie studio's are behing Blu-ray and not hd-dvd, the fact that they are owned solely or in part by Sony. Have you never noticed that in Sony studio owned movies all electronics in the movie are Sony producs?
Now dont get me wrong I dont have anything against Sony I own a few Sony products PSP, PS2 but did not buy these products solely on the fact that they are made by Sony as you would apear to Richard, so baseing any discussion on the fact that blu-ray as a hd video sorce simply because Sony use a bd drive in the PS3 is a little weak. PS3 sales world wide are hardly spectacular are they, hence recent price cuts in America and bundled extras here.
As for your aparant love of Sony making the best products anyone rember Betamax or mini disc???
This one will be very interesting in the coming months due to that decision but how many people really know about Paramount/Dreamworks decision other than those in the know. People looking to jump into the world of HD at the moment will probably buy magazines like What Hifi for some guidance.
Now I have this months copy of the magazine and found it an intersting read, it seems officially that the stance is sit tight for a while and see how things pan out BUT in reaidng the articles like I do there does seem to be a very heavy bias toward Blu Ray in each of the articles which I found surprising!!!! Maybe What Hifi arent as impartial as they would have us beleive!!!
Now I have this months copy of the magazine and found it an intersting read, it seems officially that the stance is sit tight for a while and see how things pan out BUT in reaidng the articles like I do there does seem to be a very heavy bias toward Blu Ray in each of the articles which I found surprising!!!! Maybe What Hifi arent as impartial as they would have us beleive!!!
These formats will be with us for two decades, as DVD and CD before. Then we'll probably move on to online stuff. Disks of any kind will be a thing of the past. Between now and then, these two formats seem to have one big difference. You can get twice as much raw data on a Blue Ray Disk.
Doesn't that basically do it? The player is responsible for processing the data. Once it's off the disk it's up to the elecronics to do their thing. But BD is capable of holding twice the data of HD DVD and should have more potential for dynamic content etc etc. On that basis alone, it should be the one we choose for the next 20 years.
Doesn't that basically do it? The player is responsible for processing the data. Once it's off the disk it's up to the elecronics to do their thing. But BD is capable of holding twice the data of HD DVD and should have more potential for dynamic content etc etc. On that basis alone, it should be the one we choose for the next 20 years.
[quote user="Will Harris"]
You can get twice as much raw data on a Blue Ray Disk.
Doesn't that basically do it? The player is responsible for processing the data. Once it's off the disk it's up to the elecronics to do their thing. But BD is capable of holding twice the data of HD DVD and should have more potential for dynamic content etc etc. On that basis alone, it should be the one we choose for the next 20 years.
[/quote]
At the moment capacities stand thus:
Single Layer BD: 25GB
Dual Layer BD: 50GB
Single Layer HD-DVD: 15-17GB
Dual Layer HD-DVD: 30-34GB
Toshiba and co., however, are about to release a tri-layered HD-DVD with 51GB of space (Ihttp://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_01/pr0801.htm). I also remember reading, a good year ago mind, that due to the thicknes of BD layers dual-layer is the max capable in conventional sized drives. HD-DVD, however, has a much thinner per layer thickness which would allow up to an EIGHT layered disc to fit in a conventional sized drive. By my calculation that makes the max possible HD-DVD at 120GB.
Whilst I doubt an 8-layered disc could ever be economical, the 3 layered (and possibly 4 layered in the not so distant future) discs will match the capacity of any BD and perhaps surpass it. They have stated the production cost for triple layer discs to be of very little increase on that of dual-layer costs.
If these are all lies, please tell me
On top of the storage, you've also got a much stricter minimum mandatory specification for all HD-DVD playing equipment which means all owners will know exactly what there player can do.
On top of this you have the backwards compatibility issue. HD-DVDs are much such that, if manufacturers chose, they can actually have a single 'Combo Disc' which on one side is HD-DVD and on the other SD-DVD. They can even put both sets of data on the one side on their 'Twin-Disc' format.
Anyway, I have some work to do... I'll finish this later.
You can get twice as much raw data on a Blue Ray Disk.
Doesn't that basically do it? The player is responsible for processing the data. Once it's off the disk it's up to the elecronics to do their thing. But BD is capable of holding twice the data of HD DVD and should have more potential for dynamic content etc etc. On that basis alone, it should be the one we choose for the next 20 years.
[/quote]
At the moment capacities stand thus:
Single Layer BD: 25GB
Dual Layer BD: 50GB
Single Layer HD-DVD: 15-17GB
Dual Layer HD-DVD: 30-34GB
Toshiba and co., however, are about to release a tri-layered HD-DVD with 51GB of space (Ihttp://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_01/pr0801.htm). I also remember reading, a good year ago mind, that due to the thicknes of BD layers dual-layer is the max capable in conventional sized drives. HD-DVD, however, has a much thinner per layer thickness which would allow up to an EIGHT layered disc to fit in a conventional sized drive. By my calculation that makes the max possible HD-DVD at 120GB.
Whilst I doubt an 8-layered disc could ever be economical, the 3 layered (and possibly 4 layered in the not so distant future) discs will match the capacity of any BD and perhaps surpass it. They have stated the production cost for triple layer discs to be of very little increase on that of dual-layer costs.
If these are all lies, please tell me
On top of the storage, you've also got a much stricter minimum mandatory specification for all HD-DVD playing equipment which means all owners will know exactly what there player can do.
On top of this you have the backwards compatibility issue. HD-DVDs are much such that, if manufacturers chose, they can actually have a single 'Combo Disc' which on one side is HD-DVD and on the other SD-DVD. They can even put both sets of data on the one side on their 'Twin-Disc' format.
Anyway, I have some work to do... I'll finish this later.
Fantastically informative. I stand corrected! Perhaps this fight will be less easy to argue one way or the other, than I thought.
And there I was thinking there was an easy handle on which was better! D'oh.
Thanks Wemyss!
And there I was thinking there was an easy handle on which was better! D'oh.
Thanks Wemyss!
[quote user="bicoralboy"]
Now I have this months copy of the magazine and found it an intersting read, it seems officially that the stance is sit tight for a while and see how things pan out BUT in reaidng the articles like I do there does seem to be a very heavy bias toward Blu Ray in each of the articles which I found surprising!!!! Maybe What Hifi arent as impartial as they would have us beleive!!!
[/quote]
Absolutely impartial - just so happens there are a lot more BD players out there to review than HD DVD ones. My personal opinion is that I would sit tight - in fact I am sitting tight - until this sorts itself out.
I'm sure I could borrow a player of either flavour from the manufacturers - one of the perks of this job - but I really don't fancy investing in a whole load of discs only to find I can't play them somewhere down the line...
Now I have this months copy of the magazine and found it an intersting read, it seems officially that the stance is sit tight for a while and see how things pan out BUT in reaidng the articles like I do there does seem to be a very heavy bias toward Blu Ray in each of the articles which I found surprising!!!! Maybe What Hifi arent as impartial as they would have us beleive!!!
[/quote]
Absolutely impartial - just so happens there are a lot more BD players out there to review than HD DVD ones. My personal opinion is that I would sit tight - in fact I am sitting tight - until this sorts itself out.
I'm sure I could borrow a player of either flavour from the manufacturers - one of the perks of this job - but I really don't fancy investing in a whole load of discs only to find I can't play them somewhere down the line...
[quote user="Andrew Everard"]I'm sure I could borrow a player of either flavour from the manufacturers - one
of the perks of this job - but I really don't fancy investing in a whole load of
discs only to find I can't play them somewhere down the line... [/quote]
Has that ever happened in the past though? We can still play vinyl of differing speeds and with the different holes in the middle. We still play cds despite the abundance of being able to download. Personally, I see no end to it. They will just have to live with each other.
of the perks of this job - but I really don't fancy investing in a whole load of
discs only to find I can't play them somewhere down the line... [/quote]
Has that ever happened in the past though? We can still play vinyl of differing speeds and with the different holes in the middle. We still play cds despite the abundance of being able to download. Personally, I see no end to it. They will just have to live with each other.
I am sooo buying a marantz DV9600 or a Denon 3930 second hand because it is more worthwhile making my DVDs and CDs look and sound great for the moment.
As Richard says, this looks likely to run and run. We're better to get busy living than wasting any more time!
p.s. Come back to me in 2 years time and let me know what to buy then. Until then here's to the wonder that is a DVD you can watch as often as you like for less than the price of one cinema ticket. And in my home, I'd almost rather stay in with friends than go out to the cinema save for the very biggest blockbuster only.
As Richard says, this looks likely to run and run. We're better to get busy living than wasting any more time!
p.s. Come back to me in 2 years time and let me know what to buy then. Until then here's to the wonder that is a DVD you can watch as often as you like for less than the price of one cinema ticket. And in my home, I'd almost rather stay in with friends than go out to the cinema save for the very biggest blockbuster only.
I must say that Will has his head screwed on tight. BD and HD-dvds are very expensive in comparison to dvd discs. And surely the release of more films on the HD formats will drive dvds down even cheaper. Find someone upgrading to HD and getting shot of a high end DVD player and your laughing. High end DVD players are probably still better than any HD player on market at the moment?
[quote user="bicoralboy"]Now I have this months copy of the magazine and found it an intersting read, it seems officially that the stance is sit tight for a while and see how things pan out BUT in reaidng the articles like I do there does seem to be a very heavy bias toward Blu Ray in each of the articles which I found surprising!!!! Maybe What Hifi arent as impartial as they would have us beleive!!![/quote]
I noted the same slight, emerging bias in this month's mag and I read every word in it the day it came out! However, I guess it's more innocent than you think. There is a new top-quality toy around (the Pioneer player) so it's used more often in testing and everybody in that office talks about it. The balance would change again if someone released a top of the range HD-DVD player! I used to buy other home cinema magazines and as soon as I saw obvious bias I dropped them. Same with shops. I don't like to be told what's best for me. It's patronising. I read the reviews and then decide for myself which way to go and what to audition.
Patronising HiFi shops are the worst. One chap tried telling me which the better PQ was when we compared to players on the same screen. I thought to myself: I can make up my own mind and don't need to be told whats right in front of me.
I noted the same slight, emerging bias in this month's mag and I read every word in it the day it came out! However, I guess it's more innocent than you think. There is a new top-quality toy around (the Pioneer player) so it's used more often in testing and everybody in that office talks about it. The balance would change again if someone released a top of the range HD-DVD player! I used to buy other home cinema magazines and as soon as I saw obvious bias I dropped them. Same with shops. I don't like to be told what's best for me. It's patronising. I read the reviews and then decide for myself which way to go and what to audition.
Patronising HiFi shops are the worst. One chap tried telling me which the better PQ was when we compared to players on the same screen. I thought to myself: I can make up my own mind and don't need to be told whats right in front of me.
Amount of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD's reliesed a month = not many, amount worth buying? even less.
Amount of dvd's reliesed each month? loads many of which are worth owning and what about the ones you all ready own?
I invested in a Denon DVD3930 recently and yes I know that even upscalled DVD cant match a HD format but with a Quality dvd player like mine the gap is not as far as you may think. I got mine EX-DEMO for £550 I dare anyone to try telling me I would have got a better deal buying a Blu-ray or hd-dvd unit!
Amount of dvd's reliesed each month? loads many of which are worth owning and what about the ones you all ready own?
I invested in a Denon DVD3930 recently and yes I know that even upscalled DVD cant match a HD format but with a Quality dvd player like mine the gap is not as far as you may think. I got mine EX-DEMO for £550 I dare anyone to try telling me I would have got a better deal buying a Blu-ray or hd-dvd unit!
Absolutely impartial - just so happens there are a lot more BD players out there to review than HD DVD ones. My personal opinion is that I would sit tight - in fact I am sitting tight - until this sorts itself out.
I'm sure I could borrow a player of either flavour from the manufacturers - one of the perks of this job - but I really don't fancy investing in a whole load of discs only to find I can't play them somewhere down the line...
Yep wouldnt disagree with that and probably expected as much in the HD
face off section. (Would have liked the HD-E1 put in as a budget HD DVD
player though). My main point was in relation to the 32 inch LCD
Supertest, in all but 2 of the reviews it mentions Blu Ray as the
review contend when viewing HD pictures on these sets, even some of the
review discs were Blu Ray however no mention of using an HD DVD disc
not even when the films being used were HD DVDs (Batman Begins,
Training Day) . If I were looking for a new 32in TV and possibly
dipping my toe into HD then I could reasoably think the Blu Ray was the
only option.
Even in the review earlier in the magazine of what is surley going to be a popular AV Receiver the Onkyo 605 it mentions popping on a Blu Ray!!!!
I'm sure I could borrow a player of either flavour from the manufacturers - one of the perks of this job - but I really don't fancy investing in a whole load of discs only to find I can't play them somewhere down the line...
Yep wouldnt disagree with that and probably expected as much in the HD
face off section. (Would have liked the HD-E1 put in as a budget HD DVD
player though). My main point was in relation to the 32 inch LCD
Supertest, in all but 2 of the reviews it mentions Blu Ray as the
review contend when viewing HD pictures on these sets, even some of the
review discs were Blu Ray however no mention of using an HD DVD disc
not even when the films being used were HD DVDs (Batman Begins,
Training Day) . If I were looking for a new 32in TV and possibly
dipping my toe into HD then I could reasoably think the Blu Ray was the
only option.
Even in the review earlier in the magazine of what is surley going to be a popular AV Receiver the Onkyo 605 it mentions popping on a Blu Ray!!!!
[quote user="wemyss"][quote user="Will Harris"]
You can get twice as much raw data on a Blue Ray Disk.
Doesn't that basically do it? The player is responsible for processing the data. Once it's off the disk it's up to the elecronics to do their thing. But BD is capable of holding twice the data of HD DVD and should have more potential for dynamic content etc etc. On that basis alone, it should be the one we choose for the next 20 years.
[/quote]
At the moment capacities stand thus:
Single Layer BD: 25GB
Dual Layer BD: 50GB
Single Layer HD-DVD: 15-17GB
Dual Layer HD-DVD: 30-34GB
Toshiba and co., however, are about to release a tri-layered HD-DVD with 51GB of space (Ihttp://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_01/pr0801.htm). I also remember reading, a good year ago mind, that due to the thicknes of BD layers dual-layer is the max capable in conventional sized drives. HD-DVD, however, has a much thinner per layer thickness which would allow up to an EIGHT layered disc to fit in a conventional sized drive. By my calculation that makes the max possible HD-DVD at 120GB.
Whilst I doubt an 8-layered disc could ever be economical, the 3 layered (and possibly 4 layered in the not so distant future) discs will match the capacity of any BD and perhaps surpass it. They have stated the production cost for triple layer discs to be of very little increase on that of dual-layer costs.
If these are all lies, please tell me
On top of the storage, you've also got a much stricter minimum mandatory specification for all HD-DVD playing equipment which means all owners will know exactly what there player can do.
On top of this you have the backwards compatibility issue. HD-DVDs are much such that, if manufacturers chose, they can actually have a single 'Combo Disc' which on one side is HD-DVD and on the other SD-DVD. They can even put both sets of data on the one side on their 'Twin-Disc' format.
Anyway, I have some work to do... I'll finish this later.[/quote]
TDK and Maxell are soon to be releaseing the 200gb discs
You can get twice as much raw data on a Blue Ray Disk.
Doesn't that basically do it? The player is responsible for processing the data. Once it's off the disk it's up to the elecronics to do their thing. But BD is capable of holding twice the data of HD DVD and should have more potential for dynamic content etc etc. On that basis alone, it should be the one we choose for the next 20 years.
[/quote]
At the moment capacities stand thus:
Single Layer BD: 25GB
Dual Layer BD: 50GB
Single Layer HD-DVD: 15-17GB
Dual Layer HD-DVD: 30-34GB
Toshiba and co., however, are about to release a tri-layered HD-DVD with 51GB of space (Ihttp://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_01/pr0801.htm). I also remember reading, a good year ago mind, that due to the thicknes of BD layers dual-layer is the max capable in conventional sized drives. HD-DVD, however, has a much thinner per layer thickness which would allow up to an EIGHT layered disc to fit in a conventional sized drive. By my calculation that makes the max possible HD-DVD at 120GB.
Whilst I doubt an 8-layered disc could ever be economical, the 3 layered (and possibly 4 layered in the not so distant future) discs will match the capacity of any BD and perhaps surpass it. They have stated the production cost for triple layer discs to be of very little increase on that of dual-layer costs.
If these are all lies, please tell me
On top of the storage, you've also got a much stricter minimum mandatory specification for all HD-DVD playing equipment which means all owners will know exactly what there player can do.
On top of this you have the backwards compatibility issue. HD-DVDs are much such that, if manufacturers chose, they can actually have a single 'Combo Disc' which on one side is HD-DVD and on the other SD-DVD. They can even put both sets of data on the one side on their 'Twin-Disc' format.
Anyway, I have some work to do... I'll finish this later.[/quote]
TDK and Maxell are soon to be releaseing the 200gb discs
By the time the format war is over we would probably have saved up enough to purchase both a bluray player and a hddvd player. Ive already got a PS3 and with cheapo HD-DVD players falling to below £100 by Christmas (Fingers AND toes crossed), this is becoming more and more of a reality.
With both formats having so much backing its going to take a long time before either emerges victorious. And by then they'd both probably have become obsolete in favor of online streaming. I think HD-DVD will win though - history often repeats itself.
With both formats having so much backing its going to take a long time before either emerges victorious. And by then they'd both probably have become obsolete in favor of online streaming. I think HD-DVD will win though - history often repeats itself.
[quote user="bsimmer3000"]
TDK and Maxell are soon to be releaseing the 200gb discs
[/quote]
Nice, I'd like to know what the production costs of these discs is. It obviously won't be used for pre-recorded media due to it's ludicrous size, but might see Blu-Ray becoming an option for things like camcorders and data transfer/storage. I don't, however, see a large market for the disk unless it has an ungodly max transfer rate for moving files between devices.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/TDK-200GB-Blu-Ray-Disc-The-world-s-highest-optical-disc-capacity-22753.shtml
http://gear.ign.com/articles/753/753812p1.html
TDK and Maxell are soon to be releaseing the 200gb discs
[/quote]
Nice, I'd like to know what the production costs of these discs is. It obviously won't be used for pre-recorded media due to it's ludicrous size, but might see Blu-Ray becoming an option for things like camcorders and data transfer/storage. I don't, however, see a large market for the disk unless it has an ungodly max transfer rate for moving files between devices.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/TDK-200GB-Blu-Ray-Disc-The-world-s-highest-optical-disc-capacity-22753.shtml
http://gear.ign.com/articles/753/753812p1.html
All this talk of disc sizes is making you all sound like computer geeks and not Home Cinema enthuseasts, Its not the disc size that matters it is the films on them!!!!!
Just seen this new Venturer SHD7000 HD-DVD player on the web. Looks like Wallmart have placed an order for 2 million units to retail as low as $199.
CHECK IT OUT HERE
CHECK IT OUT HERE
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