4K Blu Ray - Going in the same direction as Laserdisc ?

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Even though Kino Lorber are an American company, they’re releasing huge number of Blurays and 4K Blurays on a weekly basis, so the survival of 4K Bluray at least has some hope. The big studios seem to be slowly releasing 4K remasters of classic films from their back catalogues too, and if you watch the extras for the Criterion release of 1953’s War Of The Worlds, it was very comforting to know the effort Paramount execs put in to restoring and remastering the classic. It looks stunning by the way, even as a 1080p release, so anyone with an interest in 50’s sci-fi really should get this release if they have a multi-region Bluray player. Hopefully it’ll eventually get a 4K release.

Hopefully there will be plenty of third party studios catering for those who prefer physical media In the future.
 

dhp

Well-known member
Mar 2, 2016
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10,545
I echo your thoughts David.
Also the likes of Apple and Co, can remove the content at any time they want.
That is one of the issues with streaming .they have to rotate content. Very frustrating to have something you really like replaced by something you have no interest in. One of the things I like about physical media . It that once you own it you will always have it to watch whenever you wish 😊
 

dhp

Well-known member
Mar 2, 2016
42
9
10,545
It seems to me that the market for films will tell you all you need to know - no films, no players, but hopefully many films means there will always be players. It looks like most new, big films get a 4k release, and the back catalogues are gradually being released.

4K Ultra HD Release Dates, 4K Ultra HD Release Calendar (blu-ray.com)

4K Ultra HD Blu-ray: upcoming UK releases and dates – Film Stories

Richer Sounds shows a couple of LG players too, though I don't know how recently they were released. Sounds like a back-up player at some point might be in order to be on the safe side, though!

I stream the odd thing from Amazon and Netflix in 4k, but black depth is still not on a par with physical media. It's good overall, though.
 

dhp

Well-known member
Mar 2, 2016
42
9
10,545
Well I'm going to investigate ripping my discs to a Nas based set up. In the interim i'm definately going to get another 4k player as back for when my current one packs up . It seems it's the universal and high end players that manufacturers are phasing out first.
 

dhp

Well-known member
Mar 2, 2016
42
9
10,545
Most of the films I have bought on Apple TV I have watched once if that. So being removed doesn’t particularly bother me, it would’ve be the same in watching if I owned the discs for me personally watch once then never again.
It seems to me that without physical media, in order to have the widest selection of movies and TV to choose from, you have to have Netflix, Amazon prime, Apple tv, and Disney +. And it the case of Apple tv and Amazon prime you may also have to pay an additional rental fee for the individual film . For Example I wanted to see Greyhound featuring Tom Hanks. It's only avaible on Apple TV. I don't think it got a cinematic release so I have to register with apple and probably pay an additional fee. As far as I am aware its not slated to be released on any physical media. As more streaming providers release their own content it may be the case that without physical media and something to play it on you have to have all the streaming platforms to be able to choose what you want to watch ! That won't be cheap ! 🙄

Not to mention the fact that you need to have hi speed broad band to stream 4k. If you live in an area where it's not available then all bets are off !
 
Just started watching Brian Cox's Universe, having recorded it to HDD. This usually results in recordings indistinguishable from Freesat broadcasts. If so, the black depth on the first one was utterly dreadful. Long live physical media!
 
It seems to me that without physical media, in order to have the widest selection of movies and TV to choose from, you have to have Netflix, Amazon prime, Apple tv, and Disney +. And it the case of Apple tv and Amazon prime you may also have to pay an additional rental fee for the individual film . For Example I wanted to see Greyhound featuring Tom Hanks. It's only avaible on Apple TV. I don't think it got a cinematic release so I have to register with apple and probably pay an additional fee. As far as I am aware its not slated to be released on any physical media. As more streaming providers release their own content it may be the case that without physical media and something to play it on you have to have all the streaming platforms to be able to choose what you want to watch ! That won't be cheap ! 🙄

Not to mention the fact that you need to have hi speed broad band to stream 4k. If you live in an area where it's not available then all bets are off !
And that cannot be the future. How many streaming services do they think any one household will sign up to? There’s at least 20-30 different streaming services, possibly more.

And the high speed broadband you mention you need for 4K streaming? That’s not even full fat 4K - that’s a bandwidth that lies between DVD and early Bluray. Modern Bluray uses HEVC compression (H265), which looks much better than previous VC1, and miles better than the early AVC system used for the first Blurays.
 

dhp

Well-known member
Mar 2, 2016
42
9
10,545
Just started watching Brian Cox's Universe, having recorded it to HDD. This usually results in recordings indistinguishable from Freesat broadcasts. If so, the black depth on the first one was utterly dreadful. Long live physical media!
I use Freesat myself so I know what you mean. Physical media offers more consistency 😊
 

Rui

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2021
105
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595
As someone who has built up a fair sized collection of Physical Media (4 K Blu Ray / Blu Ray / DVD ) I cannot help but Notice that the number of 4k Players / Blu Ray Players available seems to be in fairly rapid decline ! , Oppo, Samsung and pioneer / Onkyo appear to have stopped production of Physical Disc players. Only Sony and Panasonic appear to have a selection of players available and neither has launched any New Players in the last 18 months or so that i am aware of . I'm looking for a New 4k Player but there seems to be a dwindling selection of players available and many retailers seem to have very limited stock. The Covid pandemic may be an issue but still !

The Only New Players that have been launched recently are the 2 Reavon Players. Only the UBR-x200 at 1499.00 (ouch !) is a universal Player. I wonder what players are going to be available in 2 -3 or 5 Years from now ? . I Remember the Journey that Laserdisc took in so far as there was a wide range of Players from several Manufacturer's at Launch , but over time it dwindled to the stage where only Pioneer hung in but even then they eventually stopped manufacture .

Out of warranty Machines are not cheap to have repaired and rely on the manufacture's keeping a comprehensive stock of replacement parts.

I genuinely don't think there will be 8K physical Media , so 4k Blu ray could be the end of the line. I hate the thought of only having Streaming Media available , but equally hate the thought of having 1100 discs that I cannot play .

I'd be very interested to hear other thoughts on this subject.
i think you are right in your opinion this because to much formats or types inside the same format being sold without time for people to choose one and also so many people spent money in DVD´s after already having entire colections of VHS tapes, now there is the blue-ray that i think it failed because people are already thinking after spending lot´s of money if it is worth to buy another player to improve the last format and economy is not well enough ,so people can spend a lot of money in one more format, when there are other priority, myself since very young liked image and sound. in early 2000´s i wasn´t economically speaking, well enough to invest in a dvd or blueray system but that avoid me spending money in titles or even a good player that a few years after would be obsolete and also the quality of the image when most of the people owns a high-definition tv , this in the past didn´t happen in a so close interval ,i had a super 8 complete system like a camera and a player for the films i´ve made this after owning a 8 mm film without sound but it took years inbetween this systems that were compatible or you would lose any of the films you alreday done, then i started to use video a high-end system but a betamax that was so much more evolved than the VHS that i didn´t understand how a so old or bad format of home video was choosen to be the main one while tv stations at the time continued to use betamax till the end of the 90´s , this was even worse with the digital format ,that people thought the tapes were bigger and a cd type format would be the futuire but after spending money in converting all of the VHS colections on dvd ,it appears the Blueray that kept evoling ,this makes people to do not spend more money because a new improvement or format is just around the corner so let´s see. The laserdisc had another problem when it appeared i thought to myself this could be used as a weapon , a disc looking like a lp record but very heavy and titles were not much ,it fails in Europe but in japan because of karaoke(empty orchestra)would prevail for many years but failed maybe i think because of it´s size and weight, and today it´s a variable not defined because one can spend a lot of money and in the next year would appear a better and improved format, someday will be called the format wars, regards
 
@Rui

Bluray didn’t catch on like it should’ve done because studios didn’t discontinue DVD. Had they discontinued DVD around 2010, they could still have provided DVDs with Bluray purchases (as some did) and people would have accepted Bluray easier, and sales would’ve been higher. But give people cheaper options and they’ll go with it, as most either aren’t bothered with quality or have such a cheap branded TV that the difference between DVD and Bluray isn’t noticeable to them.

This also has a knock on effect with regards to streaming services - with so many people still buying DVD, they’re used to low quality (by today’s standards), so streaming is an improvement to them, or at worst, looks as good, despite HD streaming having a much lower bandwidth than HD Bluray. Even 4K streaming has a lower bandwidth than HD Bluray.
 

doifeellucky

Well-known member
Feb 3, 2016
272
153
19,070
Part of the problem is that the streaming services are now producing a significant proportion of the content. They have zero interest in providing a physical version. The richer Netflix, Amazon and Apple get, the more this is going to happen.
 

Rui

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2021
105
24
595
They're not expensive, they're the same price as DVDs were in the 90s. If you take inflation into account, they're about half the price DVDs were in the 90s.


I started buying 4Ks then stopped. There are so few where the difference is noticeable between 4K and standard Blu-Ray upscaled to 4K. Even most of the CGI blockbusters fail to make any worthwhile use of HDR and anything from before about 2010 has almost no chance of fully using the colour space. The only films that seem to be worth buying in 4K are the Marvel movies 2010 onwards. Even then, James Gunn seems to be the only one of their directors who understands how to put on a show using HDR. Maybe others will catch up.


Yeah but we're keen enough to commenting about movies here on the WHF forum. We're not part of the vast majority :D
yes, it would be true but in Portugal i almost didn´t had no increase in what i earn monthly since 97(i´m a civil servant for the department of agriculture), but the cost of everything increased like for the double or more ,so dvd´s were half cheaper than today´s bluerays it depends on the country you live, as an example i always bought older cars around 20 years or more but good ones i used to pay for a E-class or S-class with 20 years or more around what today is without add the economy decline in the € zone around 1.000€ and in more than 20 years i receive only more 150€ since 1993 and the cars i refer to with the same years cost 20.000€ or a bit less so this is even worse when talking about bread, milk or anything else ,like a coffe when it costed 20 cents. we found it very high a increase of 5 cents. this taking in acount what we receive from working ,when the € came it changed to 50 cents but people in general didn´t had time to think in the converstion from our old national coin to the € in the 1 of january of 2001 but after one year the cofee that most of the working people drink 2 to 4 cofees a day start paying 1€, ,this to show how people were numb ,from 20 cents. to 25 cents then 50 cents, in a month , in a entire year 20cents. to 1€ ,so we shouldn´t join the € but politicians wanted to stay in history as the one who signed the change of national coin to european coin , this made enterprises lost their competivitie with a more valuable coin ,most of litle companies ,enterprises ,etc. had to close destroying thousands of families way of living . Then what we call entertainment even increased more, i could had bought easy a blueray but the discs were expensive and i wouldn´t change to a hd tv just because the adverts on tv says i kept using my high-end sony CRT t.v and only when it starts to give problems i had to buy a ultraHD t.v. but all of my dvd´s and even had a playstation that was ofered and when my friends went to my home ofice as i call it they were always asking for the football game today it´s sad to see all of those dvd´s with a bad quality because of HD evolution and as i only had interest in computer games when the 48K zx spectrum was released because i studied electronic engeniering but in the 3rd year changed to informatic 5 years degree on university because i had the feeling that computers were going to evolve much in the future but never thought that would be as it is today ,it even makes one relate it with "1984" from George Orwell . To return to the matter of home entertainment, in your country you find it correct as you explained earlier but in countries such as mine it´s the reverse allthough our politicians say it´s all running great and numbers couldn´t be more wrong, but it´s not our fault or to blame because we were played , only a litle % of the population had notion of what was to come ,others just didn´t think about it . Inflation is so high but most of the people don´t have notion of what is inflation. I personally stoped buying home entertainment as movies , concerts or others but have a paid t.v. contract with several aplications and nice channels , i´m still having my regular life but i see others that even had to call their sons studying in university because they couldn´t aford it anymore. Sorry if i went too far but i couldn´t explain it in less words ,my main language is portuguese i was just trying to explain why the bluerays are in reality much more expensive taking in acount inflation but from another european country point of view, regards
 
You may be right, but then Chernobyl got a physical release so maybe there's some hope.
TV series generally will, especially as they seem to be a big thing at the moment. Some Netflix films get released on Bluray, although not all. I saw The Ritual at the cinema on release, where I don’t recall seeing any Netflix logos, but when it came to being available on streaming, it appeared on Netflix as a Netflix film, so I guess they bought the rights. After a short time, it disappeared and was (and still only is) available to rent on Prime - I’m dumbfounded that a Netflix film isn’t available to watch on Netflix here in the U.K.! I ended up having to buy the film on Prime when it was available for about £5 in order to watch it, which I’m not entirely happy about as the compression in the darker scenes (of which there are many) detracts from the viewing pleasure - I hate visible compression.

To me, streaming services buying the rights to a film like this is like a hi-fi retailer “distributing” a hi-fi brand - I don’t think it should be allowed, as it essentially means it’s only available in one place.
 

Arron

Well-known member
Aug 24, 2021
106
30
620
yes, it would be true but in Portugal i almost didn´t had no increase in what i earn monthly since 97(i´m a civil servant for the department of agriculture), but the cost of everything increased like for the double or more ,so dvd´s were half cheaper than today´s bluerays it depends on the country you live, as an example i always bought older cars around 20 years or more but good ones i used to pay for a E-class or S-class with 20 years or more around what today is without add the economy decline in the € zone around 1.000€ and in more than 20 years i receive only more 150€ since 1993 and the cars i refer to with the same years cost 20.000€ or a bit less so this is even worse when talking about bread, milk or anything else ,like a coffe when it costed 20 cents. we found it very high a increase of 5 cents. this taking in acount what we receive from working ,when the € came it changed to 50 cents but people in general didn´t had time to think in the converstion from our old national coin to the € in the 1 of january of 2001 but after one year the cofee that most of the working people drink 2 to 4 cofees a day start paying 1€, ,this to show how people were numb ,from 20 cents. to 25 cents then 50 cents, in a month , in a entire year 20cents. to 1€ ,so we shouldn´t join the € but politicians wanted to stay in history as the one who signed the change of national coin to european coin , this made enterprises lost their competivitie with a more valuable coin ,most of litle companies ,enterprises ,etc. had to close destroying thousands of families way of living . Then what we call entertainment even increased more, i could had bought easy a blueray but the discs were expensive and i wouldn´t change to a hd tv just because the adverts on tv says i kept using my high-end sony CRT t.v and only when it starts to give problems i had to buy a ultraHD t.v. but all of my dvd´s and even had a playstation that was ofered and when my friends went to my home ofice as i call it they were always asking for the football game today it´s sad to see all of those dvd´s with a bad quality because of HD evolution and as i only had interest in computer games when the 48K zx spectrum was released because i studied electronic engeniering but in the 3rd year changed to informatic 5 years degree on university because i had the feeling that computers were going to evolve much in the future but never thought that would be as it is today ,it even makes one relate it with "1984" from George Orwell . To return to the matter of home entertainment, in your country you find it correct as you explained earlier but in countries such as mine it´s the reverse allthough our politicians say it´s all running great and numbers couldn´t be more wrong, but it´s not our fault or to blame because we were played , only a litle % of the population had notion of what was to come ,others just didn´t think about it . Inflation is so high but most of the people don´t have notion of what is inflation. I personally stoped buying home entertainment as movies , concerts or others but have a paid t.v. contract with several aplications and nice channels , i´m still having my regular life but i see others that even had to call their sons studying in university because they couldn´t aford it anymore. Sorry if i went too far but i couldn´t explain it in less words ,my main language is portuguese i was just trying to explain why the bluerays are in reality much more expensive taking in acount inflation but from another european country point of view, regards
Wow, Rui, thanks for such a long reply. It is always good to hear from Portugal, the UK's oldest friends in Europe!

I think the bad news is we will all suffer inflation for many years. You cannot have a lockdown and so many people not working for a year without inflation to follow.

Now some good news: your DVD collection is almost certainly fine. If you think they are bad quality, that is probably your player not the discs. Is Bluray better? Of course. But it's surprising how good most DVDs are if you have a good player.

On top of that, most movies are not very cinematic. I was worried that my DVD collection would have to be replaced by Blurays because my projector shows the flaws easily but most DVDs are fine because only maybe 1/4 of movies have anything cinematic in them. Take the "Dirty Harry" DVD. Would it look better on Bluray? Of course. But it is not as important as you might think. There are no shots in it of big, open spaces and there is no fancy cinematography. It is story-led. The same is true for most movies.

Does this mean you have to spend a lot on a player? No. I ripped all of my DVDs and use Plex to play them. If you have a computer, you can have a Plex server. Plex is free and the app is available for lots of devices, e.g. you can use an Amazon Firestick to play the movies. You can even get the Plex app on some smart TVs.

As for the prices, all media is expensive when it's new. Maybe wait a while and buy them used? It is not as bad here but there are plenty of people in the UK who cannot afford the latest things. Because of that, there are lots of businesses who sell used DVDs and Blurays. So you can still build a collection of good movies if go for slightly older stuff.

[Edited to add]
Sorry to hear about your old TV dying but there is good news. Your new TV probably uses less than 1/2 the electricity so you will save money in the long run.
 
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Just had to buy this on 4K Blu-ray:


And Game of Thrones 4K Blu-ray.
 

Alantiggger

Well-known member
Oct 14, 2007
244
21
18,795
Yes it Is.
The common 5/8 don't see as to why they should move on up from blu-ray quality to 4K ... and tbh, I am in this camp.
There is no point tbh and as for 8K, lol......
 

Arron

Well-known member
Aug 24, 2021
106
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620
If you don't see the point, you're in the wrong place!
Not really. As mentioned weeks ago, there are plenty of titles where an upscaled Blu-Ray is just as good as a 4K disc. Heck, there are even some films where the BD is better than the 4K -- I'm looking at you, Dark Tower -- because there's more to it than the format.

Most movies, even the DVD is fine because they're not shot for pretty images. A gritty oop-Nauth drama doesn't need Blu-Ray. Lock Stock would barely benefit from BD because of its desaturation and grainy 16mm original.

But what about bigger movies? Well, Tenet looks only slightly better on 4K and that's from a director who loves good cinematography. The reason an upscaled BD looks pretty much the same as the 4K is because Nolan doesn't shoot with HDR in mind.

IMO, about the only director making real use of 4K/HDR is James Gunn. Which is annoying because I find his films mediocre. But more directors will come.
 

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