Going active ... ?

[drummerman]

However, the manufacturer's insistence that they wipe the floor with any passive speaker is where I am deeply sceptical - indeed, I thought the PMC DB1 'active' was better, albeit at £1k more. But then, they also insist that Apple earbuds wipe the floor with any passive speaker, so what do you expect?

Yes, I found the constant slagging off etc wearing too. However, it seems this particular approach to marketing serves AVI well. Not for me though and the reason why I left their admittedly otherwise very interesting (and surprisingly friendly) forum.

Still, if I get the AVI's I'm buying the speakers not the marketing blurb.

regards

regards

 

[steve_1979]

...Admittedly, the remote control could be a bit fancier and a volume display would be handy but other than that I can't see much fault...

If I ever manage to upgrade my Neutrons to ADM9's then the lack of a display and no remote controlled subwoofer volume would be a bit of an irritation. It wouldn't be a deal breaker because of the improved sound quality but it would be a bit of a pain in the EDITED.

Yes, I found the constant slagging off etc wearing too. However, it seems this particular approach to marketing serves AVI well. Not for me though and the reason why I left their admittedly otherwise very interesting (and surprisingly friendly) forum...

Even if much of what Ash say's about other hifi companies may be true (I'm not saying it is BTW) but I do agree with you that it's bad buisness to slag of competitors. Still, it doesn't seem to do AVI any harm and personally I find his comments quite interesting and educational but I can see why it rubs some people up the wrong way.

Happy Sunday petal.

 

[steve_1979]

That's not really a fair comparison. AV companies generally update models annually. HiFi brands general refresh once every four or five years.

So AVI refreshing essentially once per annum is extreme for HiFi.

From what I've read on the AVI forum I don't think they have a planned annual upgrade path or anything like that. Martin Grinrod seems to be constantly at work doing new reasearch and development and every few months Ashley tells the people on their forum that they're testing some new drivers, amp plates, acoustic foam or even a whole new speaker design. Many of the things that Martin tests gets scrapped because they don't perform well enough but whenever they do find a way to improve things it seems to get implemented into the new speakers very quickly and a new ADM9 model is born.

Personally I find AVI's openness and and honesty to their R&D program and how the business is operated very refreshing. The most recent upgrade to the ADM9's was a new tweeter. I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) that it's a new design which has been tweaked by the manufacturer Sinar Baja in accordance to Martin Grinrod's own specifications.

 

[BigH]

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

Like what?

 

[davedotco]

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

Like what?

Anything old...... :read:

 

[BigH]

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

Like what?

Anything old...... :read:

That defeats his own statement then, only old gear. So a system is not good value because I can buy a load old stuff that better, how about new systems?

 

[Hoodedcrow]

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

I'm sorry, but that is simply "edited."

I am no friend to the company, the "sales pitch" is full of more edited for the most part, but the sound is very very good for the price. And considering they use high quality drivers and high quality amps, and are very well finished, then of course they are good value. I see ATC have some new standmounts at almost the same price...no amp, no DAC. How would you rate their value??

And comparing anything to something second hand marks you down as lacking in common sense...You "can" buy them second hand you know!

So what standmount speakers, amp and DAC would you recommend against them, that would sound as good, for similar money?

And no, not everyone can afford to move house to put monstrous eyesores in the living room.

Well said Frog

 

[BigH]

I've been looking at the AVI website today.

I think I've been lucky over the years that my local dealer always seemed to give good advice that meant my budget gear turned out rather good.

I thought I needed floorstanders affer a new extension on the house gave me a 4m wide by 5m long room to play in. But after getting the BKXXLS400 sub woofer and hooking it up with my old Mission 780's, I starting to consider whether to look at £800 - £1000 stand mount speakers instead (supported by the BK sub).

There is nothing wrong with my current gear, so if I am going to spend some cash, I want to move up from budget gear. So to replace my 15+ years speakers and 14 year old amp (each about £350 back in the day) I think I should be spending circa £750 for an amp and slightly more for speakers. Thats potentially about £1500 to £2000.

But, there's lots of views, reviews etc on system matching and countless options, I could be demoeing for months.

Just wondering whether £1250 (for the new ADM9RS) represents another good option (I assume I can connect my BK amp).

I haven't got the cash together yet but I am certainly thinking about it.

I have the Mission 780SE in my old system, I now have the AVI 9RSS the Scanspeak version not the current version, I can tell you they are in a different league from the Missions, I guess the drivers in the Missions cost around £40 and the AVI certainly cost much more and it shows, also active do have some advantages. Whether they are for you only you can tell, you can get them for a 30 day trial which is probably the best idea if you are serious about them or there are a few dealers around, I went BArletts in north London. ALso I had about 20 other demos of various amps/speakers costing between £1000-£2,000 and for me the AVIs were best, they are very dynamic and clear, the amps and speakers just work well together, all the others I heard there was something wrong, I'm not saying they are the best but certainly worth considering.

 

[lindsayt]

There is a distinct lack of logic here. Your original point was that they were poor value from new compared to what you can buy secondhand. So? That's the case for most things. It's irrelevant as you need to compare them at their second hand price to rate VFM.

Not everyone wants used things...Me included. I have never bought anything other than a house and a car second hand. I prefer new, warranty and all.

So, at the price from new, compared to what you can buy from new, they are exceptional value for money.

What other stand mount system would compare, and how much would it cost, from new. Or if you prefer, what could I get second hand that would better my ADM9T, for a cost of around £600 which is roughly what I'd expect if I sold them? I'd need speakers, a nice powerful amp and a DAC.

For £600?

Just one example out of many possible combinations:

Muse Audio DAC into Creek CAS4040 into EV Sentry III's.

 

[lindsayt]

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

Like what?

Anything old...... :read:

No not anything old. Not when it comes to the speakers, which are the most important item with digitial only as a source. Only certain cherry picked speakers. Properly engineered ones. There are plenty of old speakers that were just as cheaply made as the AVI ADM 9's - and this does tend to show in the sonic performance.

 

[steve_1979]

EV Sentry III's.

Pretty.

They are more like PA speakers than hifi speakers though.

The bass driver is big but looks low quality.

 

[jonathanRD]

I've been looking at the AVI website today.

I think I've been lucky over the years that my local dealer always seemed to give good advice that meant my budget gear turned out rather good.

I thought I needed floorstanders affer a new extension on the house gave me a 4m wide by 5m long room to play in. But after getting the BKXXLS400 sub woofer and hooking it up with my old Mission 780's, I starting to consider whether to look at £800 - £1000 stand mount speakers instead (supported by the BK sub).

There is nothing wrong with my current gear, so if I am going to spend some cash, I want to move up from budget gear. So to replace my 15+ years speakers and 14 year old amp (each about £350 back in the day) I think I should be spending circa £750 for an amp and slightly more for speakers. Thats potentially about £1500 to £2000.

But, there's lots of views, reviews etc on system matching and countless options, I could be demoeing for months.

Just wondering whether £1250 (for the new ADM9RS) represents another good option (I assume I can connect my BK amp).

I haven't got the cash together yet but I am certainly thinking about it.

I have the Mission 780SE in my old system, I now have the AVI 9RSS the Scanspeak version not the current version, I can tell you they are in a different league from the Missions, I guess the drivers in the Missions cost around £40 and the AVI certainly cost much more and it shows, also active do have some advantages. Whether they are for you only you can tell, you can get them for a 30 day trial which is probably the best idea if you are serious about them or there are a few dealers around, I went BArletts in north London. ALso I had about 20 other demos of various amps/speakers costing between £1000-£2,000 and for me the AVIs were best, they are very dynamic and clear, the amps and speakers just work well together, all the others I heard there was something wrong, I'm not saying they are the best but certainly worth considering.

I'm in South Wales, so my local dealer is Audio T (there is a Richer Sounds also) so when I'm ready I will be having a listen to some of the popular stuff like Brio R, Arcam A19 & Audiolab 8200A, RS3's, Kef R100 & LS50, Tannoy DC6T etc plus whatever else they may suggest - they have always been very good in the past. Realistically my buget will be up to £1500. I'm not bothered about all the politics, but I am interested in having a listen to the AVI 9RS based on the reviews and comments I've read.

I can pop over to Gloucester and occasionally travel to Leeds and Epsom but I not sure whether I am prepared for 20 demo's.

When I'm ready I'm sure I'll let you all know how I get on.

 

[John Duncan]

The bass driver is big but looks low quality.

Oh yeah, ElectroVoice - well-known purveyors of cheap tat since 1930...

 

[lindsayt]

Steve, what is it about the EV Sentry III bass driver that looks low quality to you?

Let's have a look at the AVI drivers next to the EV Sentry III drivers, side by side, from the same angle, instead of picking an unflattering photo of the EV to try to make your point.

The cross sectional area of the cage struts on the EV Sentry bass driver are much larger than the AVI mid-bass driver. Your photos deliver no sense of scale between the EV driver and the AVI driver. The magnet of the EV Sentry III bass driver is much larger than the AVI mid-bass driver magnet. But then the 2 drivers are not really comparable. The EV bass driver is a dedicated bass driver. It goes up to 600hz only before crossing over to the midrange driver.

Let's compare the midrange drivers of the AVI and EV, side by side. Let's compare the tweeters side by side.

Let's compare the cabinets of the EV and AVI. Which do you think cost more to make?

Honestly, which do you think cost more to make, the 3 drivers, plus horns on the EV speaker of the 2 drivers on the AVI speaker?

And most important of all, let's get these 2 speakers together. The EV will sound significantly better than the AVI in the same room, with the same volume, and the same test tracks.

 

[lindsayt]

There is a distinct lack of logic here. Your original point was that they were poor value from new compared to what you can buy secondhand. So? That's the case for most things. It's irrelevant as you need to compare them at their second hand price to rate VFM.

Not everyone wants used things...Me included. I have never bought anything other than a house and a car second hand. I prefer new, warranty and all.

So, at the price from new, compared to what you can buy from new, they are exceptional value for money.

What other stand mount system would compare, and how much would it cost, from new. Or if you prefer, what could I get second hand that would better my ADM9T, for a cost of around £600 which is roughly what I'd expect if I sold them? I'd need speakers, a nice powerful amp and a DAC.

Here's a few questions for you frog, and for anyone else that has bought a 2nd hand house and car.

Why did you buy your house 2nd hand?

Why did you buy your car 2nd hand?

I have a budget of £6000 to buy a car. What should I buy?

 

[lindsayt]

And, by the way, plenty of linear travel equals higher levels of distortion in a bass driver Steve.

 

[Overdose]

In the 50 plus years since the EV Sentry III came out, do you not think that technology might have moved on somewhat?

To take your analogy regarding cars, I'd certainly rather the new car over a 50 plus year old car for many reasons.

As far as the speakers go, they might sound like angels whispering in my ears, but they look like the devils arse, so would never get over the threshold of my house even if I had the room to make them look less obtrusive.

 

[lindsayt]

Steve, FYI, heres photos of the 1823M midrange driver used on some EV Sentry III's. This is similar to the 1824M used on other EV Sentry IIII's.

These are not cheap midrange drivers. The midrange horns used on these speakers are not cheap either.

 

[Overdose]

The bass driver is big but looks low quality.

Oh yeah, ElectroVoice - well-known purveyors of cheap tat since 1930...

Their current stuff doesn't look particularly 'high end' even in Pro audio terms.

 

[lindsayt]

In the 50 plus years since the EV Sentry III came out, do you not think that technology might have moved on somewhat?

To take your analogy regarding cars, I'd certainly rather the new car over a 50 plus year old car for many reasons.

As far as the speakers go, they might sound like angels whispering in my ears, but they look like the devils arse, so would never get over the threshold of my house even if I had the room to make them look less obtrusive.

The EV Sentry III's did not come out in 1963. They came out later than that.

On the basis of comparing EV Sentry III's to AVI ADM 9's, technology has gone backwards in terms of the sound quality on offer. Therefore the 50 year old car analogy does not apply here. It's a non-sequitor.

And once again, you are talking about looks, whilst I am talking about value for money in this thread. If you want to talk about looks that's fine. But you can't use looks as an argument when it comes to value for money because looks are sooooooooo subjective.

Overdose, what car would you recommend for someone with a budget of £6000?

 

[Hoodedcrow]

I'm in South Wales, so my local dealer is Audio T (there is a Richer Sounds also) so when I'm ready I will be having a listen to some of the popular stuff like Brio R, Arcam A19 & Audiolab 8200A, RS3's, Kef R100 & LS50, Tannoy DC6T etc plus whatever else they may suggest - they have always been very good in the past. Realistically my buget will be up to £1500. I'm not bothered about all the politics, but I am interested in having a listen to the AVI 9RS based on the reviews and comments I've read.

I can pop over to Gloucester and occasionally travel to Leeds and Epsom but I not sure whether I am prepared for 20 demo's.

When I'm ready I'm sure I'll let you all know how I get on.

I enquired about Adm speakers myself on this forum a while back and the post also ended up in a war of words.

In the end I went and heard some Adm speakers for myself and found instantly that they were just what I was looking for all along, for you it may be a different case of course, for me it was and still is a wow moment.

Do try and get a chance have a listen to some Adm speakers to make your own mind up and good luck with your search.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I wonder what those Indonesian drivers cost, and whether they're the same as the cheap Yamahas also manufactured in the same place.

 

[Overdose]

Steve, FYI, heres photos of the 1823M midrange driver used on some EV Sentry III's. This is similar to the 1824M used on other EV Sentry IIII's.

These are not cheap midrange drivers. The midrange horns used on these speakers are not cheap either.

Do be so fixated on price. There's plenty of expensive tat available as well as cheap tat.

I wouldn't know where these sat, but certainly not in many front rooms.

 

[Overdose]

In the 50 plus years since the EV Sentry III came out, do you not think that technology might have moved on somewhat?

To take your analogy regarding cars, I'd certainly rather the new car over a 50 plus year old car for many reasons.

As far as the speakers go, they might sound like angels whispering in my ears, but they look like the devils arse, so would never get over the threshold of my house even if I had the room to make them look less obtrusive.

The EV Sentry III's did not come out in 1963. They came out later than that.

On the basis of comparing EV Sentry III's to AVI ADM 9's, technology has gone backwards in terms of the sound quality on offer. Therefore the 50 year old car analogy does not apply here. It's a non-sequitor.

And once again, you are talking about looks, whilst I am talking about value for money in this thread. If you want to talk about looks that's fine. But you can't use looks as an argument when it comes to value for money because looks are sooooooooo subjective.

Overdose, what car would you recommend for someone with a budget of £6000?

Maybe a Landrover Defender if you wanted to 'off-road', a Toyota Yaris for nipping to the shops for a pint of milk every once in a while, an MX5 or similar for a bit of top down, sunshine action, Galaxy/Sharan/Alhambra for carting the family around and doing big shopping trips, loads more situations and choices available.

I wouldn't buy a Morris Ital regardless of its condition and it's pretty much how I view the EV Sentrys. Some people did buy the Itals though, much to their own disappointment.

 

[Overdose]

I predict 100+ posts in this thread by Sunday evening...

Well, we tried.