future alternative Pioneer PDP-428XD?

[admin_exported]

Hi, it's Richard from the Netherlands.

I've been planning to buy a new plasma for a long time. As I've read in your magazine (and looked at in stores) the Pioneer PDP-428XD is the best 42" tv. At this moment I just can't wait to buy one. Should I wait just a few weeks/months (before Euro 2008 starts) for a better plasma to arrive than the Pioneer? Is there a chance Panasonic can beat this model with one of their new plasma/lcd-models?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Anonymous]

Pioneer havent announced any new models as yet, (i think) they have just confirmed they will go to LCDs aswell as Plasmas...

id still stand by the Pioneer compared to the new panasonic plasmas (dont even think about the LCDs they cant keep up with plasmas ^_^)

 

[FuzzyinLondon]

I agree totally with Matthew. The Pioneer is still the best around. The new Panasonics are better than the last generation but still can't match the all round ability of the Kuros. The processing in the Kuros is still streets ahead. The good thing about the release of the Panasonics is that the price of the Pioneer has come down. You can get a 4280XD for under £1200 which isn't that much more than the Panasonic 42PZ85. Panasonic's flagship model will the PZ800 which isn't released until the summer. It may well be as good as the Kuros but will carry a premium pricetag.

 

[Anonymous]

How do you actually know the processing is streets ahead?

 

[FuzzyinLondon]

From actually comparing various sets side by side - which you'd see if you read my post history. I'm not a Pioneer fanboy - you'll see that I'm recommended Panasonic sets to various people depending on their budget. The picture processing engine is the single most important component of any tv. You'll see a lot of LCD tvs share the same components right down to the panel that they use but the reason that a Sony tv has a better picture than, say, a Samsung is down to Sony's patented picture processing tech. The fact is that no other company has invested money in R&D to the same extent that Pioneer has, especially considering they're quite a small company compared to Panasonic and Sony. The way that their sets are able to scale incoming signals to fit the resolution of the screen in incredible. It's the very reason that the HD Ready Kuros produce a better HD image than almost every Full HD set whilst still producing the best SD images of any tv range on the market (apart from the now discontinued Fujitsu range). Another example of this is the LX508. We've seen large Full HD tvs struggle with SD - the Panasonic 50PZ70, Samsung PS50P96 and every LCD over 40". Most people argue that this is because of the number of pixels involved in the scaling process but this is a lazy argument when you look at the Pioneer which produce better SD images than other set including the HD Ready Kuros. It's essentially the perfect tv - if only it had the perfect pricetag. But I would argue that you get what you pay for - a great HD and SD set with no compromises. Whether it's worth it to you is a personal choice.

 

[Anonymous]

I just wondered if you knew technically how or why the processing is better.

Why would you bring up you being a Pioneer fan boy, I am just asking a genuine question? Seems you have gone on the defensive for some reason?

I have had 4280 sat in my front room and have a PX80 in my other room and to be honest there is nothing between them, aside from a bit of retention.

I can't argue for the other Panny's as I find Full HD at 42" relatively pointless as I can't spot any difference and as you say the HD Ready screens handle SD much better.

As a note my PX80 is set up to the HDTV test sites settings and the Kuro is set to the AV forum site 8G thread settings.

if you could tell me how or why the Kuro processes better then I really would like to know, I am not challenging you?

 

[FuzzyinLondon]

Fair enough. Having re-read my post it does sound defensive so I'll hold my hands up and apologise. I wasn't sure what context you were asking that question in and if I'd had the above info, I wouldn't have dug a massive hole for myself so allow me to start with a clean slate. Obviously 'streets ahead' is a subjective term. My folks have just got a 37PX80 and I've been running it in for them using similar settings to those you mentioned (I'm glad they started publishing their settings). They were going to get a bargain PX80 as there doesn't seem to be much difference between the two in picture quality but the PX80 does seem more future proof. They couldn't fit a 42" so the Panny was the one to go for. A lot of people have said that the picture is sharper on the 37" but this could be down to having more pixels squeezed into a smaller area. I'm impressed with the set, especially for the money. I've tested it with a PS3, a Toshiba EP30 and with Sky+. It's got about 100 hrs on it but the picture doesn't seem that much better to when I first switched it on. Still, it's good. Both are really good with HD images. With Blu-Ray on the PS3 the Pioneer is better - more colourful, three dimensional and sharper with a 1080p feed. Of course, this isn't just down to the processor but the quality of the panel itself. Still, the image on the PX80 is very sharp. I also tried a bunch of DivX episodes of Heroes and Lost. Both handled them well but they did have more of a DVD quality on the Kuro. I see more of a difference when I fed it with Sky+ via Scart. The performance of the Kuro has convinced me to hold off upgrading to Sky HD so far. My folks are going to be using their set with Sky+ as well. I don't think they'll be disappointed. I found some of the channels to be slightly noisier and duller on the PX80. I found the same thing when I hooked it up to the EP30 via HDMI and fed the PX80 a native 576i from SD DVD. It was much better when I fed it a 720p upscaled picture so that the player was doing the scaling instead of the tv. The tv just had to scale down the horizontal pixels. With the Pioneer, I find the picture to be a tiny bit better when I feed it a 576i feed than when I feed it . That seems to suggest that the tv does a better job of de-interlacing and scaling than the player. One of the main reason's I've kept hold of the EP30 is that it send 576i which the PS3 still can't do. So those are my findings and opinions when looking purely at picture quality. I've asked for an explanation on another forum but I got lost when they started talking about algorithms. Of course, I'm not arguing with your opinion either. You own both and have a more valid opinion than anyone else. I'd be interested to know what sources you're using and what you think of both overall. I'm glad I bought the Pioneer but find it hard to actually say that it's £400-£500 better than the Panny. However, if your budget is £1200 I do still think it's the one to go for because of its versatility.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi mate,

Cool!

Mainly I use Virgin+ with HDMI for usual viewing , but have tried it with Scart too on both screens.I run it at 720p I seem to prefer that to 1080i.

I have had a Toshiba EP35 but that went wrong on an firmware update so got returned so I replaced it with a PS3.

I also have an Xbox 360 Elite for gaming. Have used that for DVD playing but now stick to the PS3, it is quieter.

The 2 major advantages I have found of the Pio over the PX80 is a) the abiltiy to adjust each input seperately and b) zero image retention, the Pio is more bullet proof.

However my Pio has been returned due to "dirty screen" I reckon you know about this from the previous generation of Pioneers. I was gutted because I liked the Pio but because the PX80 is very good and it only cost me £699 I have decided to stick with that on a value for money basis. This has enabled me use the change plus a bit to get a decent sound seperates sound system.

If they were both the same price then I would have the Pio because it just has that extra bit of quality which you refer too but only if it didn't have that dirty screen issue.

Cheers mate

 

[FuzzyinLondon]

You can't argue with £699 for a 42PX80. That's a fab price. In fact, it's only a few quid more than the 37". I've had a little retention on the Panny but nothing that didn't go away within a few hours. Sorry to hear about your Pio. I know a few people have had that problem. I've heard Pioneer haven't exactly been great with their customer service in some cases either. At the moment I'm starting to get 'Shrinking Screen Syndrome'. When I first got the tv it seemed massive and I didn't think I'd ever be able to fit anything bigger in the room - certainly not a 50". But the new 46" Panny Plasma is a tempting size so I'm trying to stay away from it so I don't get tempted. I know it would mean sacrificing SD quality but I'm sure Blu-Ray would be spectacular, especially with those improved blacks. I still find the lack of picture options on the Panasonic to be a bit annoying, especially compared to the Pio, but I guess that's understandable given that it aimed at at a larger market and need to be as user-friendly as possible. Still, a better colour management system would be nice. Maybe we'll see it in the more expensive models. Also, I'll be really interested to see the Pioneer LCDs coming later this year. If they can transfer and adapt their processing successfully to the Sharp panels we might see the best LCDs on the market.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi

I'm new to this forum but have read with interest this feed as I have so far been tempted by the write ups of the Pioneer, but to be honest the picture of the Panasonic 700 in several high street stores seems better to me.

I appreciate the feed into the sets will differ, and the showroom set ups are going to be different to those used at home, but its now got me so confused as to which to go for - the Pioneer or the new Panasonic 800 when it eventually arrives. Your advice would be appreciated but I suspect you'd suggest the Pioneer.

Also If you could tell me - what is the "dirty screen" that you refer to? This is something of a put off for the Pioneer, especially when you say it seems a common problem.

Cheers

 

[Clare Newsome]

Just to add to the discussion, I got an email from Pioneer this evening inviting me to an event 'inspired by the next generation of Kuro" on 23rd May. Will try and find out more tomorrow....(but don't hold your breath for an immediate launch - last years' press events for Kuro started in January and previews followed throughout the year, but we didn't see the sets until September).

Exciting stuff, though!

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds good, they have had a lot on their minds with decisions and all that.

Clare a question please.

I had the Pio and it got zero rention (bullet proof) but on the PX80 I use cinema mode and contrast below 50% and like the picture that way but still get a routine amount of image retention is this something to be concerned about?

 

[FuzzyinLondon]

[quote user="pkk"]
Hi

I'm new to this forum but have read with interest this feed as I have so far been tempted by the write ups of the Pioneer, but to be honest the picture of the Panasonic 700 in several high street stores seems better to me.

I appreciate the feed into the sets will differ, and the showroom set ups are going to be different to those used at home, but its now got me so confused as to which to go for - the Pioneer or the new Panasonic 800 when it eventually arrives. Your advice would be appreciated but I suspect you'd suggest the Pioneer.

Also If you could tell me - what is the "dirty screen" that you refer to? This is something of a put off for the Pioneer, especially when you say it seems a common problem.

Cheers
[/quote]

If you can wait, then I'd wait. I think you'll be able to do a much better comparison of the sets when the PZ800 is released later in the summer. The PZ800 might turn out to be a brilliant set but it's not out yet so there's no way to make a judgement. My gut feeling is that the picture quality will be similar to that of the PZ80/85 but it will sport a nicer design and a better sound system plus a couple of other enhancements. For that, Panasonic will charge a premium over their other sets as it represents their top-of the range in the plasma line. If you ignore pricing, the Pioneer is still the best all round 42" plasma on the market. However, the new Panasonics are only slightly behind and you can't ignore the value for money that they represent. For example, in most areas, the PX80 is only slightly inferior to the Pioneer but is £400-500 cheaper. Only you can decide if it's worth paying the extra for that extra ounce of performance. £400 means different things to different people. What is worth bearing in mind is that it is confirmed that this will be the last generation of 42" Pioneer plasmas. Panasonic will continue to develop their 42" plasmas beyond the Kuro in the years to come.
Regarding your experience of seeing the Pioneer on the high street, I'd say that I'm not surprised. Pioneers don't look very special with their out-of-box settings and for this I blame Pioneer. They know their sets are going to be displaying crappy feeds on shopfloors all over the country so why not have a set of shopfloor settings in their tvs or a better guide for retailer on how to display them. Either that or pay some of their engineers to go around around do it for them. They'd sell a lot more sets and might not be in the financial position they're in. They've shot themselves in the foot if you ask me. Panasonic do a much better job with their sets in that regard. It's unfair to force a customer to have to go to an authorised dealer just to see a properly calibrated set. Saying that, if you can get to one it's worth it. You will definitely see a difference with a properly calibrated Pioneer and a properly set-up Panasonic. You might still prefer the Panasonic but at least you'll be able to make a more informed judgement.

The 'dirty screen' effect is something that seemed to plague the 7th gen Pioneers. Some people have reported a problem with the 8th gen regarding bright areas of picture. I'm pretty sure its only affected a few sets.

Clare, apparently some Pioneer Works dealers are expecting demo sets at the very end of June and might start getting shipment from July. RGB and PRC are pretty local to me and do hold promo events from time to time. I might try and blag an invite. I'm scared it might make me want to spend more money though. I'm very weak willed.