Front ported vs rear ported speakers

[bartlett23]

Sorry if I'm missing the obvious, but if you and your good lady were impressed by the 301s, why not look at the demoing AE 500.

I'm a big advocate of brands familiar to your respective ears.

The AE 500s have become a late front runner!

 

[Al ears]

think i'm going to give the B&Ws a whirl, despite the rear ports, as their sound really grabbed me during the demo. and the dealer said i can send them back if unhappy. looks like the PMCs are just a bit of a squeeze. might also listen to the ATC SCM7s at the weekend as a sealed box leftfield option. 85w per channel should be enough to drive them.

Let us know how you get on particularly with those ATCs

 

[bartlett23]

Let us know how you get on particularly with those ATCs

Hard to find somewhere in London to demo the ATCs. Would the SCM11s sound similar, just more suited to bigger rooms?

 

[Al ears]

Hard to find somewhere in London to demo the ATCs. Would the SCM11s sound similar, just more suited to bigger rooms?

Yes but £300 extra and marginally easier to drive.
However your amp may struggle with these.

 

[bartlett23]

Yes but £300 extra and marginally easier to drive.
However your amp may struggle with these.

So let’s say I like the sound of the SCM11s (which are too big anyway) I could safely buy the SCM7s blind? In theory 🙂

 

[Al ears]

So let’s say I like the sound of the SCM11s (which are too big anyway) I could safely buy the SCM7s blind? In theory 🙂

Yes you could if you heard the SCM11s with your amplifier. As I said the amp may struggle to drive these speakers adequately (ATC suggest amps with 75-300 wpc)
Personally I would stick to speakers that are more efficient.

 

[DougK1]

Hard to find somewhere in London to demo the ATCs. Would the SCM11s sound similar, just more suited to bigger rooms?

I take it you can hear the SCM11 easier than the SCM7 at a dealer? I'm sure they'll have a similar sound signature but in the case of my little Harbeth's many owners state the sweetness of the smaller speaker is not replicated in the larger speakers.

 

[bartlett23]

I take it you can hear the SCM11 easier than the SCM7 at a dealer? I'm sure they'll have a similar sound signature but in the case of my little Harbeth's many owners state the sweetness of the smaller speaker is not replicated in the larger speakers.

Cheers Doug, and morning guys. Sorry to keep dragging this speaker debate out! The only (convenient) London stockist has some SCM11s. Demoing them tomorrow. Reviews for the SCM7s are glowing, and my amp is 85 watts p/c so should be fine. Had a chat with the guys at Doug Brady and they agreed. Don't need crazy high volumes.

 

[DougK1]

Cheers Doug, and morning guys. Sorry to keep dragging this speaker debate out! The only (convenient) London stockist has some SCM11s. Demoing them tomorrow. Reviews for the SCM7s are glowing, and my amp is 85 watts p/c so should be fine. Had a chat with the guys at Doug Brady and they agreed. Don't need crazy high volumes.

No apologies necessary, this is a very interesting thread Be interesting to hear your thoughts on the ATC's.

 

[nopiano]

Cheers Doug, and morning guys. Sorry to keep dragging this speaker debate out! The only (convenient) London stockist has some SCM11s. Demoing them tomorrow. Reviews for the SCM7s are glowing, and my amp is 85 watts p/c so should be fine. Had a chat with the guys at Doug Brady and they agreed. Don't need crazy high volumes.

As an owner of the floorstanding ATC SCM40 I’d agree there, and you’ll note that the so-called Entry series all use the identical tweeter. The woofer sizes are matched to the cabinet, but they have a pretty similar character from those I’ve heard.

@Oxfordian who used to write here regularly , tried numerous speakers and settled on the SCM7 I recall. I’m sure a search will reveal more.

 

[bartlett23]

Yes you could if you heard the SCM11s with your amplifier. As I said the amp may struggle to drive these speakers adequately (ATC suggest amps with 75-300 wpc)
Personally I would stick to speakers that are more efficient.

thanks for the advice, much appreciated. lots of reviews out there for the ATCs and I'm not too worried about the power of my amp. "Part way through the review period, Hegel’s new H95 arrived and, at £1,500 seemed a more realistic pairing. The reduction in power (60 watts p/c) did little, if anything, to reduce the dynamics and showed just how easy the SCM7s are to drive given their modest 84dB sensitivity."

 

[bartlett23]

As an owner of the floorstanding ATC SCM40 I’d agree there, and you’ll note that the so-called Entry series all use the identical tweeter. The woofer sizes are matched to the cabinet, but they have a pretty similar character from those I’ve heard.

@Oxfordian who used to write here regularly , tried numerous speakers and settled on the SCM7 I recall. I’m sure a search will reveal more.

cheers, super helpful! reassuring to know that people have the same problems as me! first-world problems of course.

 

[bartlett23]

Well that was unexpected. Auditioned the bigger ATCs and was pretty underwhelmed. Annoyingly, the bloke in the shop wheeled out some £2k Spendor 4/5 Classics. Love at first listen. My wife was with me and she was blown away too. Sealed box, totally flexible in terms of positioning. Just need to bite the bullet price wise!

 

[nopiano]

Well that was unexpected. Auditioned the bigger ATCs and was pretty underwhelmed. Annoyingly, the bloke in the shop wheeled out some £2k Spendor 4/5 Classics. Love at first listen. My wife was with me and she was blown away too. Sealed box, totally flexible in terms of positioning. Just need to bite the bullet price wise!

That was a worthwhile trip then? They should be lovely. Interestingly they are similarly low sensitivity as ATC’s baby at 84dB.

 

[Al ears]

£1895 from Doug Brady Hifi.

 

[Al ears]

£1895 from Doug Brady Hifi.

That was a worthwhile trip then? They should be lovely. Interestingly they are similarly low sensitivity as ATC’s baby at 84dB.

However, nominal impedance 8ohm and minimum 6.6ohm

 

[DougK1]

Well that was unexpected. Auditioned the bigger ATCs and was pretty underwhelmed. Annoyingly, the bloke in the shop wheeled out some £2k Spendor 4/5 Classics. Love at first listen. My wife was with me and she was blown away too. Sealed box, totally flexible in terms of positioning. Just need to bite the bullet price wise!

Excellent Well you wouldn't be the first to succumb to the charms of the little monitor infinite baffle design... I got bitten too. Would you say these are better than the B&W's you heard last week? Any chance you can hear them in your room?

 

[bartlett23]

Excellent Well you wouldn't be the first to succumb to the charms of the little monitor infinite baffle design... I got bitten too. Would you say these are better than the B&W's you heard last week? Any chance you can hear them in your room?

Hard to tell if better than the B&Ws. Think I might listen to them once more to be sure. £800 is quite a difference, but it sounds like these Spendors are a bit like the Harbeths that have been discussed a lot on here. And a few hundred quid more for a decade of happiness is worth every penny.

 

[bartlett23]

£1895 from Doug Brady Hifi.

Bargain! 😂

 

[bartlett23]

That was a worthwhile trip then? They should be lovely. Interestingly they are similarly low sensitivity as ATC’s baby at 84dB.

Worthwhile and expensive in equal measure! But hey, you only live once 🙂 Haven’t bought them yet but they answer the brief on every level.

 

[DougK1]

Hard to tell if better than the B&Ws. Think I might listen to them once more to be sure. £800 is quite a difference, but it sounds like these Spendors are a bit like the Harbeths that have been discussed a lot on here. And a few hundred quid more for a decade of happiness is worth every penny.

£800 over ten years of enjoyment is negligible. I think you said you live in London, if you are having trouble getting a home loan of the B&W's and Spendor's you are more than welcome to borrow my P3's for a week. They will differ slightly from the Spendor as they have a smaller bass driver but voicing should be 'similar'. I'm certain the sealed box design will work best with your compromised placement issues.

 

[Al ears]

Hard to tell if better than the B&Ws. Think I might listen to them once more to be sure. £800 is quite a difference, but it sounds like these Spendors are a bit like the Harbeths that have been discussed a lot on here. And a few hundred quid more for a decade of happiness is worth every penny.

Try to get a home demo to be certain they are right for you

 

[nopiano]

However, nominal impedance 8ohm and minimum 6.6ohm

That’s similar to ATC then. They aren’t low impedance, as they are rated at 8 ohms and have a minimum of 6.4 ohms. (The Hifi Critic review measured this).

I think the ‘difficult to drive’ perception is only because they soak up the power due to their low sensitivity and low distortion (making it easy to turn them up without the usual compression)

 

[plastic penguin]

@bartlett23

Be aware that the ATCs and Spendor Classic might be ideal in some respects but using a 80 watt amp to power them will cause it to heat up very quickly. The Leema gets warm in less than 30 mins of use on a normal day. If we have a heatwave all electric fans will be pointed towards the amp.

 

[davidf]

I'm looking to move and upgrade my speakers (see photo). Positioning isn't ideal but it should be better than my current set up. Considering PMC Prodigy 1s as they're front ported and fairly unfussy about positioning. But the shop has also suggested B&W 707 S3s, which are rear ported. The speakers will sit about 20cm from the rear wall, will there be much difference?

Haven't read the thread, only skimmed it.

The B&W sounds like a typical dealer recommendation - steer clear - they're just trying to sell you what they want to sell you, with zero consideration for your room.

It looks as though you have a fairly live sounding room, so avoid bright sounding speakers, especially those that just have the tweeter string on the front face of the cabinet, as you'll have treble bounding off your side walls, floor, and ceiling. Look at speakers using waveguides, which will minimises the HF dispersion and reduce reflections, reducing any potential brightness caused by the room.

In your chosen position, not only will you get HF reflection off the side walls, but also more HF reflection potentially off the inside of the chimney breast, which will also end up being deflected to the outside walls, exaggerating it further, and maybe creating a bit of time smear.

Putting loudspeakers in bookshelves is very hard to get right. Most speakers will produce too much bass to work in that sort of position, even if they are front ported, as enclosing a speaker within what is essentially another cabinet can add its own resonances. Two speakers that are more likely than most to work in that position are the Ophidian Minimo 2, which uses a rear vent (not port), and the Amphion Argon 0, which are rear ported, but has a more subdued bass due to their size. The latter are 26cm tall, but could be used on their side due to their low crossover point, so you could get the tweeters further away from the chimney breast to reduce any potential reflections, which will naturally be reduced by the waveguide anyway.

As well as finding a speaker that will work in that position, you'll need to find one that your amplifier can drive easily - if the amp struggles, you'll end up with a mediocre sound. Most speakers likely to fit into that space won't be very big, and therefore won't usually be too efficient. Sealed boxes will usually be even less efficient, and generally don't sound too exciting at lower volumes.

Ideally, you'll need to take into account some sort of isolation to reduce resonances travelling through the shelves and adding to the end result.