EB Acoustics - to Richard Allen

[Vladimir]

He may still get his speakers. Lead time has always been about 8 months

So why then doesn't Richard just be honest from the outset and tell people that there will be an 8 month wait for delivery instead of saying that "they'll be there next week" then ignoring all attempts of contact by the customer for 8 months?

I once waited for 3 months for an amp to get repaired, I almost went nuts. I was warned how that guy is the best but I'll have to wait a lot, and I was willing to wait. What I wasn't told was that some waited for 3 years, aka have given up. In his shop there were piles and piles of gear opened and just left to collect dust. The phone keeps ringing, he keeps telling everyone the same lie he told me million times how the unit will be ready if not in the next 3 days, the following week the latest.

Finally after 3 months of me pushing and calling (I'm in the same city at least), he did a botch job, worst than I would myself and gave me back the amp, which broke again after few weeks. I went to another "amazing, Tesla genius" guy who makes his own Class A and valve amps, he is pricey, there is a long wait, but he is amazing, they said. That was in 2013. The amp was suposed to be done within 3 months. I've never seen it since.

I've read exactly the same cases on Audiokarma and AVS Forums in USA how the genious tech is bad at running his business, despite his talent. Never answering emails, maybe sometimes picking up the telephone, constant lies, backlog of gear for years, angry forum reviews... exactly the same as Richard's case.

Conclusion. People who create/repair brilliant amps and speaker should not run their own operations because they eventually fail. Richard should wake up from his slumber and just team up with a capable operations manager to ensure success of his product on the market.

 

[Gazzip]

He may still get his speakers. Lead time has always been about 8 months

So why then doesn't Richard just be honest from the outset and tell people that there will be an 8 month wait for delivery instead of saying that "they'll be there next week" then ignoring all attempts of contact by the customer for 8 months?

I once waited for 3 months for an amp to get repaired, I almost went nuts. I was warned how that guy is the best but I'll have to wait a lot, and I was willing to wait. What I wasn't told was that some waited for 3 years, aka have given up. In his shop there were piles and piles of gear opened and just left to collect dust. The phone keeps ringing, he keeps telling everyone the same lie he told me million times how the unit will be ready if not in the next 3 days, the following week the latest.

Finally after 3 months of me pushing and calling (I'm in the same city at least), he did a botch job, worst than I would myself and gave me back the amp, which broke again after few weeks. I went to another "amazing, Tesla genius" guy who makes his own Class A and valve amps, he is pricey, there is a long wait, but he is amazing, they said. That was in 2013. The amp was suposed to be done within 3 months. I've never seen it since.

I've read exactly the same cases on Audiokarma and AVS Forums in USA how the genious tech is bad at running his business, despite his talent. Never answering emails, maybe sometimes picking up the telephone, constant lies, backlog of gear for years, angry forum reviews... exactly the same as Richard's case.

Conclusion. People who create/repair brilliant amps and speaker should not run their own operations because they eventually fail. Richard should wake up from his slumber and just team up with a capable operations manager to ensure success of his product on the market.

Spot on the money sir!

 

[luckylion100]

He may still get his speakers. Lead time has always been about 8 months

So why then doesn't Richard just be honest from the outset and tell people that there will be an 8 month wait for delivery instead of saying that "they'll be there next week" then ignoring all attempts of contact by the customer for 8 months?

I once waited for 3 months for an amp to get repaired, I almost went nuts. I was warned how that guy is the best but I'll have to wait a lot, and I was willing to wait. What I wasn't told was that some waited for 3 years, aka have given up. In his shop there were piles and piles of gear opened and just left to collect dust. The phone keeps ringing, he keeps telling everyone the same lie he told me million times how the unit will be ready if not in the next 3 days, the following week the latest.

Finally after 3 months of me pushing and calling (I'm in the same city at least), he did a botch job, worst than I would myself and gave me back the amp, which broke again after few weeks. I went to another "amazing, Tesla genius" guy who makes his own Class A and valve amps, he is pricey, there is a long wait, but he is amazing, they said. That was in 2013. The amp was suposed to be done within 3 months. I've never seen it since.

I've read exactly the same cases on Audiokarma and AVS Forums in USA how the genious tech is bad at running his business, despite his talent. Never answering emails, maybe sometimes picking up the telephone, constant lies, backlog of gear for years, angry forum reviews... exactly the same as Richard's case.

Conclusion. People who create/repair brilliant amps and speaker should not run their own operations because they eventually fail. Richard should wake up from his slumber and just team up with a capable operations manager to ensure success of his product on the market.

Again agreed, though clearly similar sage advice has been ignored in the past. Such a shame for ALL parties involved.

 

[bigboss]

To the OP have you tried telephoning EB Acoustics? When I ordered mine email was a non-starter for communicating with Richard but I spoke to him a few times on the telephone.

As per the first post of this thread, the OP tried ringing as well.

 

[Vladimir]

Among the most succesful companies in audio were founded by partners, one the mad inventor and the other a capable marketeer, manager and brand visionary. The first one builds, the second one sells and is aware what the market wants. A good example is Roksan, which was founded by Tufan Hashemi (manager) and Touraj Moghaddam (inventor). Vivid Audio was founded by Laurence Dickie (inventor at B&W), Philip Guttentag (distributer for B&W) and Robert Trunz (marketing at B&W). Harman / Kardon was founded by Sidney Harman (GM at David Bogen Company) and Bernard Kardon (chief engineer at DBC).

 

[Al ears]

He may still get his speakers. Lead time has always been about 8 months

So why then doesn't Richard just be honest from the outset and tell people that there will be an 8 month wait for delivery instead of saying that "they'll be there next week" then ignoring all attempts of contact by the customer for 8 months?

Facts:

Lead time has not always been 8 months, perhaps recently it has been but not at the start.

"They'll be there next week" has, as far as I can see, never been mentioned.

If you are a 'one man company' and you get ill then production ceases.

People that buy on spec on the merits of one review need to be extremely cautions and do their homework - quite clearly they are not.

 

[luckylion100]

I fail to see how people continue to defend EB Acoustics on here. I'm not a spiteful or uncaring human being but it seems to me Mr. Allen has all but refused to help himself get out of this rut. If he simply can't cope in his chosen profession he needs to do something else or change things for the better. just as the rest of us have to do. I speak from the stance of someone that has suffered from serious mental and physical illness in my past, so whatever the issues (I'm not suggesting that is the issue here) I have a sense of sympathy for him but that should be secondary in terms of the fact he's operating a business and the customers should come first. Please stop making excuses for him.

 

[steve_1979]

Are there any publicised cases where someone didn't get his money back or a pair of EB speakers, regardless of amount of delay? I'm not implying anything, I'm simply asking since I'm only a year old member on this forum.

When do you draw that line and say you didn't get your money back? A year? Two?

I'm no legal expert so someone please correct me if I'm wrong but thought that if a product isn't delivered within 14 days of the agreed date then the trader is in breach of contract and the customer is entitled to a refund.

Hopefully someone who knows the law better than I do will be able to confirm if this is correct.

 

[steve_1979]

Lead time has not always been 8 months, perhaps recently it has been but not at the start.

Based on forum comments for several years now the build time for EB Acoustics speakers has been around 8 months (sometimes even longer?). This time frame is not a new turn of events.

"They'll be there next week" has, as far as I can see, never been mentioned.

The OP of this thread was told two weeks. Several customers on other WHF and PFM threads have also been given similar time frames and the speakers don't get delivered for many months and without the customer being given any infomation about how long the delays will take or even if the speakers will ever arrive at all which is understandably very distressing for the customer.

If you are a 'one man company' and you get ill then production ceases.

The reasons for the delays are not the issue. These problems would not keep happening if Richard was honest about the expected time frames and if further delays do occur he should give people honest updates about when their speakers are expected to arrive. Instead he just keeps on lying about the delivery dates then refuses to answer the customer at all when they ask where their speakers/money have dissapeared to.

People that buy on spec on the merits of one review need to be extremely cautions and do their homework - quite clearly they are not.

When a customer places an order with EB Acoustics Richard enters into a legal contract as a trader. It is his responsibility as the trader to deliver the goods within the agreed time frame or if the goods are not delivered within this time then the consumer can assume the contract is cancelled and a refund should be issued within 14 days of that time.

This is the responsibility of the trader NOT the customer.

 

[Vladimir]

No one is defending Richard's behavior. We are discussing:

1) If he is maliciously scamming people for money VS being terrible at doing business as one man operation.

2) If WHF should immediatly remove all EB product reviews based on complaints by anonimous forum accounts.

 

[Al ears]

I too gave Richard the benefit of the doubt a good while ago and, fortunately, came away with a good result. I do not consider myself defending him, read my last posts on this and other threads as to how he has failed his business and his customers, I am just not so quick to slag people off. For all we know the man might be dead.

Shopping in the internet age can be prone to rip offs, company collapses and god knows what else even more so than high street retailers. If you are going to utilise this method of obtaining any equipment then you better do your homework is all I'm saying. If you choose to persist and order goods from a company who have known delivery problems then that's your perogative. Perhaps if enough people realised that over the years this has been happening and decided against ordering then perhaps this situation would not have developed in the first instance.

I have always stated a more accurate delivery period should have been placed on the website and indeed that the website should have been the first thing to be shut down once it became obvious he could not delivery within the 180 day period.

 

[drummerman]

my '8 months' comment was an ill-attempted effort of making light of the situation . I have no idea what the average waiting time is other than that is wayyyy to long. You are not ordering a custom job limited editition supercar.

Why anyone would order from someone like that, with all the known and well publicised problems of the past, is, quite frankly, beyond me.

That is not a personal attack on the company owner as for all I know, he always came over as a nice guy but that's hardly helping the OP.

Lesson learned from this thread ... don't consider products from EB or any similar company unless/until problems have been sorted.

 

[iQ Speakers]

As a new small speaker supplier (pinchs self) as Drummerman says "or other smaller companies like EB". I know what its like to fight depression, but there is certainly no excuse not to deliver speakers in a resonable time frame. Just dont take the money until the speakers ship, or refund if it goes well over the expected delivery date I know its dificult to produce in a time frame when you rely on outside influences to produce the goods. Its not honourable and you can not call it a business if you rely on using customers money to fund orders from 3 months ago. I would certainly not behave in this way. Wish I could help.

 

[steve_1979]

... I am just not so quick to slag people off. For all we know the man might be dead. ...

At no time have I slagged him off. I'm simply commenting in a factual manner on his methods of treating customers.

As for the "For all we know the man might be dead" comment that doesn't really hold water either. This has been happening for many years now and he certainly hasn't been dead all that time as only a few months ago he contacted the OP to ask for payment (there are no problems with communication when he's asking for money I notice).

 

[steve_1979]

Like yourself when I first heard about EB Acoustics customer service I also gave Richard the benefit of the doubt and I think that he's been treated more than fairly by most. However he's had several years to sort out the situation but it still keeps on reoccurring. How many more years does this have to go on for and how many more customers can he get away with mistreating in this way before people start saying that enough is enough?

I've read about almost a dozen people who've been mistreated by Richard and suspect that there may be many more who don't post on forums who've also been mistreated in the same way. I don't understand why you're so keen to stand up for Richard whilst also blaming the customers for this situation?

 

[steve_1979]

No one is defending Richard's behavior. We are discussing:

1) If he's maliciously scamming people for money VS being terrible at doing business as one man operation.

I doubt that he's maliciously scamming people for money. The problem is incorrect initial information followed by a complete lack of infomation.

For most people the long waiting times probably wouldn't be an issue provided they were informed at the beginning what a realistic time frame is going to be. I also doubt that most people would mind if there were additional delays provided they were 'kept in the loop'. Sure they may feel a bit disappointed at having to wait a bit longer than expected but they aren't going to get distressed and/or angry if they know what's happening.

The root of the problem IMO is the lack of information. People are only going to get distressed and/or angry when Richard cuts off all lines of comunication thus leaving them wondering if they'll ever receive the speakers or if their money's been stolen. All Richard needs to do is be honest about time frames from the beginning and reply to emails and this problem will disappear straight away. It's hardly rocket science and there's no excuse for not giving people information.

2) If WHF should immediatly remove all EB product reviews based on complaints by anonimous forum accounts.

Considering the regularity of these complaints and the number of years that they've been occurring WHF should at least add a sentance to the review warning people about the posibility of long waiting times and a lack of communication which is a common occurrence when dealing EB Acoustics.

Obviously WHF aren't legally obliged to do this but morally it's the fair thing to do as some people are buying speakers from Richard based solely on what they read in the WHF review.

 

[Um]

I think whatever the situation/ reasons, enough is enough.

If you can no longer deliver the product once paid for .......... You have no business.

 

[Al ears]

... I am just not so quick to slag people off. For all we know the man might be dead. ...

At no time have I slagged him off. I'm simply commenting in a factual manner on his methods of treating customers.

As for the "For all we know the man might be dead" comment that doesn't really hold water either. This has been happening for many years now and he certainly hasn't been dead all that time as only a few months ago he contacted the OP to ask for payment (there are no problems with communication when he's asking for money I notice).

"Only a few months ago....asked for payment" . I cannot see where you got this information from. The OP paid in full at time of purchase as does everyone who orders these products.

Again I reiterate Richard or somebody needs to shut down website to stop anymore orders being generated until backlog cleared. Asking WHF to add to its review will do little good, the damage has been done, and again it wasn't just WHF that gave glowing reports. The solution to this problem lies with the manufacturing company itself .

 

[bigboss]

"Only a few months ago....asked for payment" . I cannot see where you got this information from. The OP paid in full at time of purchase as does everyone who orders these products.

No. After numerous complaints on this forum, Richard changed payment method. You pay 10% at the time of order, and when your speakers are ready, he'll contact you to pay remaining 90% before he ships them to you. EDITED BY MODS.

 

[steve_1979]

... I cannot see where you got this information from ...

Have you not read the first post of this thread and the first post in the PFM thread?

Not to mention very similar comments in the numerous other threads started by disgruntled EB Acoustics customers over the years.

"Only a few months ago...

In the first post of this thread the OP says "I have ordered the EB2 and paid the full amount on September 11 in 2014."

...asked for payment

In the first post of the PFM thread the OP says "the payment was split into initial 10% "deposit" and 90% "balance" payment when the speakers were supposed to be ready."

I'm assuming that Richard contacted the customer to let them know that the speakers were ready and that payment is required before they are shipped.

 

[hg]

And more important; does anyone know how to solve this? I live in the Netherlands and I am looking into legal actions at the moment....

The current price for the EB2S is £799 which raises the possibility that you are owed more than £750. Is this the case?

 

[Gazzip]

Just to play devils advocate for a second Anonymous posts are not proof of anything and they certainly do not identify the relative scale of the problem. If EB have sold only 1,000 units then the two or three complaints (0.2%) is a drop in the ocean frankly when it comes to customer dissatisfaction.

Not defending the situation just questioning its severity.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Severe for those two, and if its happening to 1 or 2 over a 3 month period unless they only have sold 2 in that time period, then its happening to others as well. Unless they ordered a pair in pink polka dots that they are having trouble with the finish.

 

[Gazzip]

Severe for those two, and if its happening to 1 or 2 over a 3 month period unless they only have sold 2 in that time period, then its happening to others as well. Unless they ordered a pair in pink polka dots that they are having trouble with the finish.

Not sure your logic that if it has happened to 2 or 3 people there must be more out there really stacks up. It is often that the smited few who shout over the satisfied many. I am not defending a company's failure to deliver, but having given this some more thought I am calling for a little perspective.

 

[iQ Speakers]

The logic being unless they ordered somthing completely different, they are lying, refused delivery, not paid, disapeared etc, why should on earth EB say, I'm not shipping to these 2 particular people, I will fulfill all my other orders even the ones that came in after and make these two guys wait 3 months. I once worked for a £120M computer company they never shipped anything for 3 months went into liquidation. Funny enough the directors started another company and are both very rich.