Driving ProAc D38s

[Anonymous]

Hmm, I'm actually getting kinda interested in the MF AMS-35 myself. Anyone else listened to this? Is it similarly lush as the Sugdens sound?

 

[CnoEvil]

Hmm, I'm actually getting kinda interested in the MF AMS-35 myself. Anyone else listened to this? Is it similarly lush as the Sugdens sound?

The AMS 35i is a very special amplifier. Unlike the Sugden, it doubles its power into 4ohms and into 2ohms (the Sugden is 45w into 4ohms).

Compared to the Sugden the mid range is slightly less well lit and even more natural with the bass being substantially better (tighter and deeper).....for me it is like having the sub on.

IMO It is a substantially better amp than the Sugden, and addresses the weaknesses of the latter. If you are prepared to live with its power usage and is in the price range, it is a must demo. It just sounds very "alive" and natural.....in a way, addictive. If you press a bit you can get up to 10% off, even if you have to deal with Indra.

 

[CnoEvil]

Musical Fidelity Titan = £19,995

Why not? Go for it.....

You guys are a terrible influence !!!

.....or MF Primo + AMS 50. Though I suspect the 35i would surpass all your expectations; I didn't mention it as it has a list price of £6k. If it is in range, you need to give it a listen (it sounds more like a 200W amp). If you are worried about power, set up a demo to put your mind at rest. Your speakers are easier to drive than mine.

Stop driving yourself mad with over thinking this by just looking at specs, and start listening to the above suggestions from everybody.....all of which are good. (IMO The MF AMS, Sugden and Pathos will sound best).

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Thanks Pete.

The whole Roksan kit has been moved to another room, so I have a clean slate, needing an Amp and CD Player.

Hi SuperGallot

Thanks for your reply earlier on.

I'll recommend that you should also consider the Plinius Hiato amplifier and their CD-101 cd player. Alternatively the Hiato amplifier with a Chord Electronics QBD76 DAC and if budget allows their Blu transport

Plinius amplification forms an excellent match with Proac speakers and with the Hiato/CD-101/Blu/QBD76 you'll have an excellent source with quantity, quality of power and performance to energize and (if need be) bounce your D38's around the room

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

SuperGallot, what is your budget for source + amp?

 

[Anonymous]

@CnoEvil Thanks for the mini review. I will try to get a dem. Currently i have a class d Chapter Audio 2+ with oodles of grip and power, awesome deep bass, very clean, which can go VERY loud. So will have to see if I can get that class a magic without losing any of the benefits of the chapter amp...

 

[CnoEvil]

@CnoEvil Thanks for the mini review. I will try to get a dem. Currently i have a class d Chapter Audio 2+ with oodles of grip and power, awesome deep bass, very clean, which can go VERY loud. So will have to see if I can get that class a magic without losing any of the benefits of the chapter amp...

PA, please let me know what you think. I suspect that your perfect amp sounds like it would be a Sugden, but with the bass sorted out. IMO. That is what you will get with the 35i; if anything it's even sweeter but never crosses the line into lush. It seems to combine the best of Valves and Solid State, without sounding like either. In my case it beat off stiff competition from Coda, VTS, Moon, Linn, Naim, Arcam P777 (Bi-amped), Electrocompaniet and Sugden.

 

[Anonymous]

SuperGallot, what is your budget for source + amp?

Hi Pete. Priority is to get something to match the ProAcs.

I have heard you ought to spend similar amounts on each component, as the ProAcs were £5500 speakers I am prepared to spend £10k ish for an Amp and CD Player, or slightly more if I have to go Pre Amp/Power Amp route.

As long as I am suitably impressed with the results !!!

Thanks to everyone for all their help with this.

Travelling the country to Demo kit is really not viable for me, I am kept busy with my business so pretty much have to rely on reviews and other people's opinions.

 

[CnoEvil]

SuperGallot, what is your budget for source + amp?

Hi Pete. Priority is to get something to match the ProAcs.

I have heard you ought to spend similar amounts on each component, as the ProAcs were £5500 speakers I am prepared to spend £10k ish for an Amp and CD Player, or slightly more if I have to go Pre Amp/Power Amp route.

As long as I am suitably impressed with the results !!!

Thanks to everyone for all their help with this.

Travelling the country to Demo kit is really not viable for me, I am kept busy with my business so pretty much have to rely on reviews and other people's opinions.

In that case I would say: Pathos Digit or Sugden PDT/4 or Audio Research CD5 + Musical Fidelity AMS 35i or Pathos Inpol 2.

 

[Anonymous]

You can still get home demos from a lot of dealers - they will mail it to you and let you have it for a week or so, and usually only have to pay the return postage if you aren't happy with it. For the amount of money you are spending, it is well worth getting a few and trying them out. It's also worth talking to proac and or sugden, and on their websites you can find lists of dealers so you can get their opinions too, and ask them if you can get a home demo. In my experience it really is worth talking to everyone you can (even if dealers are sometimes biased) - this approach has really helped me with my shortlist / final choice in the past

 

[Anonymous]

The Sugden IA-4 is going cheap here...

http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/pre_owned.php

 

[CnoEvil]

The Sugden IA-4 is going cheap here...

http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/pre_owned.php

PA, that's a great find, though the OP has declared an interest in buying new only; being from a dealer though, he might change his mind.

If he has the money to spend, the 35i is worth the extra, but not if getting the Sugden at that price.

If you haven't already come across it, below is a link to a very interesting article on the 35i, especially if you are somebody who likes to see comprehensive measurements.

http://www.avhub.com.au/images/stories/australian-hifi/reviews/2011-03/Musical_Fidelity_AMS_35i_Amplifier_Review/musical_fidelity_ams35i_amplifier_review_lores.pdf

 

[Anonymous]

Update.

It's been a big decision as it's obviously a lot of money, however I have finally decided on :

Sugden MPA4 Mono Block Power Amps

Sugden LA4 Pre Amp

Sugden PDT4f CD Player

LFD XLR Interconnects and Bi Wire Cables - £1300 worth of cables, so not scrimping here.

Ordered the lot this morning, delivery due second week in December.

Hope Santa can fit it all into his sack

Will report on the sound quality when I have given it a good listen.

P.S Can highly recommend Dave at Progressive Audio, very good man to deal with.

 

[Anonymous]

Just had an email from Sugden saying if I want to I can go to the factory and meet the man who is building my HiFi !

You don't get that at Comet

 

[nopiano]

Just had an email from Sugden saying if I want to I can go to the factory and meet the man who is building my HiFi !

You don't get that at Comet

Wow, that's great! Delighted for you.

 

[CnoEvil]

I really need to get it right this time !

Thanks in advance.

You have.....big time!

Did you demo the Sugden stuff, and if so, how did you find it?

 

[Macspur]

Update.

It's been a big decision as it's obviously a lot of money, however I have finally decided on :

Sugden MPA4 Mono Block Power Amps

Sugden LA4 Pre Amp

Sugden PDT4f CD Player

LFD XLR Interconnects and Bi Wire Cables - £1300 worth of cables, so not scrimping here.

Ordered the lot this morning, delivery due second week in December.

Hope Santa can fit it all into his sack

Will report on the sound quality when I have given it a good listen.

P.S Can highly recommend Dave at Progressive Audio, very good man to deal with.

Wow! SuperGalloot, that's some set up! Green with envy. Looking forward to your review once it's all in place and you've done some listening. I've had dealings with Dave myself... a really nice chap, he let me home demo some speakers last year.

 

[Anonymous]

Didn't have opportunity to demo the kit, I think the fact that most people immediately said Sugden gear was the best match for ProAcs, and the fact that ProAc use Sugden gear to demo their speakers was enough for me.

These people know a lot more about HiFi than I do, so I'm happy to take their recommendations.

Very very excited it has to be said, I love music - I've got 4 HiFis around the house, well technically 3 HiFis and 1 Home Cinema set up - but I've never spent this amount of money on a HiFi before. It's over £22,000 worth at full retail, including the speakers, so I'm expecting it to sound absolutely amazing and give me many happy hours of listening pleasure.

Delivery is due second week in December, so it can be my Christmas present to myself

Thanks to everyone on here for all the advice, it was a HUGE help and very much appreciated.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Nice

 

[Macspur]

Didn't have opportunity to demo the kit, I think the fact that most people immediately said Sugden gear was the best match for ProAcs, and the fact that ProAc use Sugden gear to demo their speakers was enough for me.

These people know a lot more about HiFi than I do, so I'm happy to take their recommendations.

Very very excited it has to be said, I love music - I've got 4 HiFis around the house, well technically 3 HiFis and 1 Home Cinema set up - but I've never spent this amount of money on a HiFi before. It's over £22,000 worth at full retail, including the speakers, so I'm expecting it to sound absolutely amazing and give me many happy hours of listening pleasure.

Delivery is due second week in December, so it can be my Christmas present to myself

Thanks to everyone on here for all the advice, it was a HUGE help and very much appreciated.

I'll be amazed if you're nothing less than bowled over by the Sugden-ProAc combo.
Don't forget to come back to the forum in December to describe your listening experience.

 

[CnoEvil]

Didn't have opportunity to demo the kit, I think the fact that most people immediately said Sugden gear was the best match for ProAcs, and the fact that ProAc use Sugden gear to demo their speakers was enough for me.

These people know a lot more about HiFi than I do, so I'm happy to take their recommendations.

Very very excited it has to be said, I love music - I've got 4 HiFis around the house, well technically 3 HiFis and 1 Home Cinema set up - but I've never spent this amount of money on a HiFi before. It's over £22,000 worth at full retail, including the speakers, so I'm expecting it to sound absolutely amazing and give me many happy hours of listening pleasure.

Delivery is due second week in December, so it can be my Christmas present to myself

Thanks to everyone on here for all the advice, it was a HUGE help and very much appreciated.

Blimey, that is putting a lot of faith (money) in us lot....what a lot of responsibility to shoulder!

FWIW I think you will have an amazingly musical system, that is going to be even better than you are expecting....looking forward to hearing your view (I will not sleep easy till then. )

Cno

 

[Anonymous]

Well it's finally arrived - actually got it all on Friday but not had a proper chance to listen to it until yesterday.

Switched on a 3pm and switched off around 8.30pm !

Couldn't switch it off, I wanted to listen to all my favourite tracks, it was so addictive.

I'm very very impressed, the sound is sweet, pure, crystal clear, effortless and the bass is tight and very very deep - I've never heard bass so low without a subwoofer.

Music like Adele, Celine Dion, Mumford and Sons, just absolutely grips you, totally mesmerised by it, really draws you in to the music. Seriously could listen to it for hours on end.

Switched to Jean Michel Jarre and was similarly impressed.

Then upped the ante a little and tried some AC/DC, Metallica, Thunder and finished off with Iron Maiden Live. Once again totally gripped by the music, could not sit still to AC/DC ! The Live CD was a tad disappointing but to be fair I would consider it to be a fault of the recording rather than the reproduction, given how well it had played everything else.

By now the volume levels had started to creep up a little - of which more in a moment.

Finished the evening with some bang up to date stuff, LMFAO, Lady Gaga, Rihanna etc. The Bass absolutely kicking, again I've never heard Bass so deep without a Sub.

As for the volume, well if you remember I had considered the Stereo Power Amplifier SPA4, rated at 75 watts per channel and, while this would have been plenty most of the time, I had concerns this wouldn't be sufficient for those odd afternoons when I got carried away, so opted for two MPA4 Mono Blocks, rated at 330 watts each, into 4ohms ( my ProAcs are 4ohms).

If you imagine a clock face, zero volume is at 6 o'clock, full volume being all the way back round again to about 5 o'clock. Most of the evening the volume never went past 7 o'clock, or perhaps half past, and for 90% of the time I would say it never will ! I've never seen anything like it, a very tiny movement of the volume control results in a large increase in the volume of the sound. At one point I ventured towards the 9 o'clock setting - ie one quarter volume, and it was verging on unpleasantly loud. You wouldn't want to expose your ears to that sound level for too long. To say there is power to spare is the understatement of the year. It gives the impression that the Sugden gear could very easily turn the ProAcs inside out if you really wanted to.

I have to say my "music room" is relatively small, maybe 16 feet by 12 feet, with nothing in there except a leather chesterfield and the Hi Fi, with a bay window to the left, so it's fair to say this system would address a much larger room with ease.

In summary, I am very happy, sincerely impressed with the sound - and the quality of the products I have purchased, both ProAc and Sugden seem built to last a lifetime - and I'm sure it will only sound better with more use.

Meanwhile the Roksan Kandy amp and cd has been moved into the lounge and I have ordered some Focal Chorus 836 speakers to partner that set up.

I would like to thank everyone for their help and advice, I have ended up with a system I am very pleased with and will no doubt give me many years of listening pleasure. And special thanks to Dave at Progressive Audio who has been brilliant to deal with, he managed to get me the upgraded Sugden PDT4F CD player which I beleive I am one of the first in the country to have and despite not being a Focal dealer has managed to source me the Chorus 836.

I wonder how long my ears will last

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi SuperGalloot

Nice one

and i hope that you enjoy the performance of your system for many years to come

Merry Christmas

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Thank you for getting back with your feedback. I am glad you are finding it meets your expectations, having spent such a large amount of money on blind faith.

IMO You have a system that takes some beating, and is a huge step up from where you were. It is always amazing how different great speakers can sound, when properly driven....With the AMS35i, I too found the bass was so deep and powerful, that I would often check that the sub wasn't on.

:cheers:

Cno

 

[Macspur]

Hi SuperGalloot,
So pleased for you. It certainly is always a risk buying blind, but I really couldn't see you being disappointed with the Sugden/ProAc set up.
I will be looking to probably change my Naim CDP in the new year, funds permitting and the new Sugden will be top of my list to demo. So if you've got anything else to add after a few more hours listening, it would be good to hear.