Driving ProAc D38s

[admin_exported]

Recently purchased a pair of ProAc D38s in Birds Eye Maple.

They were a bargain as the model has been discontinued and I just couldn't resist !

As per my other thread, they do not sound amazing with my Roksan Kandy K2 Amp and CD Player so I'm going to replace the Roksan kit even though it's brand new, I'm not happy with the sound so it will be moved to another room and hooked up to some Mordaunt Shorts.

I was wondering if anyone could recommend an Amp and CD Player, or a Pre/Power Amp and CD Player that would suit the D38s ?

I really need to get it right this time !

Thanks in advance.

 

[Frank Harvey]

We've found that D38's have been very popular with Cyrus and Naim owners in particular. Ideally I'd say the Mono X200's from Cyrus, or a Naim NAP200 would be ideal.

As for source components, we find many people tend to stick to the same brand nowadays.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Recently purchased a pair of ProAc D38s in Birds Eye Maple.

They were a bargain as the model has been discontinued and I just couldn't resist !

As per my other thread, they do not sound amazing with my Roksan Kandy K2 Amp and CD Player so I'm going to replace the Roksan kit even though it's brand new, I'm not happy with the sound so it will be moved to another room and hooked up to some Mordaunt Shorts.

I was wondering if anyone could recommend an Amp and CD Player, or a Pre/Power Amp and CD Player that would suit the D38s ?

I really need to get it right this time !

Thanks in advance.

Hi SuperGalloot

What areas of the systems performance do you feel is lacking/needs improving?

What do you and anyone else who is also likely to use the system generally listen to?

The size of your room?

Your listening distance?

Your general listening level?

Have you got any power requirements which you like to see the amplifier have?

Is the room lightly or heavily furnished?

Interconnects and speakers cables?

Your overall budget?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that advice, it's much appreciated and I am currently browsing your companys website.

Just to be clear, and apologies if this is a really dumb question, if I go for a Mono Power Amplifier like the Mono X200 am I right in thinking I need to purchase two ( one for left, one for right ) ?

 

[Anonymous]

Rick, thanks for replying. This is a copy of my original post :

I have recently bought a new Hi Fi set up and in view of the amount of money I have spent I am quite disappointed with the sound.

The set up is this :

Roksan Kandy K2 Amp

Roksan Kandy K2 CD Player

Pro Ac D38 Speakers

Gale Speaker Cable - can't remember the serial number, but it's very thick stuff and appears good quality, cost me £300.

I appreciate the Speakers are a bit of a mismatch, I didn't actually plan to spend so much on speakers but came across a "bargain" as the D38 model had been discontinued. To be fair if I had bought the speakers first I would have spent more on the other components, but as it happened I bought the speakers last...

My Music Room is fairly small, maybe 14 feet by 10 feet, with a bay window to the left, as you look at the speakers. There is nothing else in the room, just a leather chesterfield at one end, the Hi Fi components next to it, and the Speakers at the opposite end. Again, I am aware the speakers are probably a little too large for such a small room.

Now then, the Bass response is tremendous, even at low volumes, if anything it's almost too much.

The problem is the top end sounds harsh, in fact some tracks are difficult to listen to they are so harsh, which is very disappointing.

Given ProAcs reputation and the obvious quality of the speakers I would be amazed if the speakers are to blame.

My personal theory is the Roksan Kit is simply not a good match for the ProAcs and I may need to invest in a more expensive Amp, or possibly a Pre and Power Amp set up.

A good friend tells me the system is too new to make a judgement and I need to play it quite a lot more before it all settles down. I've owned it about a month.

I would be extremely grateful for any informed opinions on where my problem lies.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Big Chris]

What about sticking with Roksan but taking a listen to the Caspian pre/powers? Or you could get an integrated and a stereo power amp and bi-amp the speakers.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thanks for that advice, it's much appreciated and I am currently browsing your companys website.

Just to be clear, and apologies if this is a really dumb question, if I go for a Mono Power Amplifier like the Mono X200 am I right in thinking I need to purchase two ( one for left, one for right ) ?

Yes, monoblock amplifiers would have to be purchased in pairs

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi there again.

I'm glad that you've decided to try and do justice to these excellent speakers. You haven't mentioned a budget, but I'll throw out a few suggestions anyway. From what I've read, you don't like the mix with Roksan, though it may be sensible to try your CDP with a new amp in case it sounds better.

Since these speakers shine such a spotlight on the rest of the system, you need to have a clear understanding of the type of sound you like...which means borrowing amps and bringing them home to demo.

ProAc say that these speakers were designed with increased efficiency and sensitivity, to allow them to work with quality valve and SS Class A amps of no more than 10W.

Here is a list of a variety of types of amps at a range of prices:

CLASS A: Sugden Masterclass IA-4

TUBE: Pure Sound A30; Unison Research S6

HYBRID: Pathos Logos

CLASS A/B : Leema Tucana Mk11; Musical Fidelity M6i; ATC SIA-150; Electrocompaniet ECI-5Mk11; Lavardin IS Reference

If you need to change your CDP (which may not be necessary) look at ones from Sugden, M.Fidelity, Naim and Marantz Pearl Lite.

If it were me, I would be looking at doing away with a CDP and going for something like an Olive, Linn, Cyrus or Naim streamer.

With a bit of care over componants, those speakers can sound wonderful; you just need to be careful not to get too much bass in that size of room. Some soft furnishings and carpets can help, with subtle acoustic treatment being the last resort.

Cno

 

[Anonymous]

Of those, definitely the Sugden Masterclass or Pathos Logos (which you can find second hand or ex-dem if you look carefully enough), and you will have a creamy, lush, beautiful sound

(If they are anything like the d15s I had, they are easy to drive but still work best with some decent power, and the Masterclass has power beyond its power rating)

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice gents, it is very much appreciated.

I have being doing some homework myself and found very favourable reviews of the Leema Tucana, Naim and Cyrus kit.

I also love the styling of the Pathos Logos, and it gets a good review too. It would be nice to have something with a little visual appeal, although this isn't really a priority.

Budget wise I don't really mind, within reason, as long as I am happy with the sound.

I am lead to beleive you ought to spend a similar amount on each component of a system and I am prepared to do that, although I do like a bargain and will happily buy a discontinued model at a reduced price if something comes along - that's how I ended up with the ProAcs.

I don't like secondhand or ex demo, I much prefer to have new kit out of the box, but discontinued bargains are fine with me.

As for the Roksan Kit, it now lives in my lounge and is hooked up to some Mordaunt Short Avianos - it sounds much happier than it did with the ProAcs.

So now I have a "music room" with nothing but a settee and a pair of speakers...time to go shopping !

I'm a little surprised at the comment that I might be able to "borrow" some Amps to try out.

I didn't know retailers did this, but that would be absolutely ideal if they did. Reading a review is one thing, but I guess you can't beat listening to the system yourself, in your own room.

I'll do some more homework, make a shortlist and start making some enquiries about "test driving" some equipment.

Thanks again for all the advice, Hi Fi is a minefield for someone enthusiastic but not particularly knowledgeable.

 

[Anonymous]

Just to add, I listen to a wide variety of music, current material from Adele, Mumford and Sons, Alexis Jordan and even club dance tracks with heavy bass lines, through 80's and 90's stuff, Ultravox, Duran Duran, Take That, right through to classical music if I'm in that frame of mind.

In my youth I was a rocker and still occasionally play Iron Maiden, Metallica and softer Rock such as Bon Jovi, Guns n Roses etc.

Last night I played Adele, Celine Dion, Simply Red and Prince.

An Amp that favours a particular kind of music really wouldn't suit me, I really do need an "all rounder" to cope with my mood swings !

I do like to play quite loud on occasion, luckily with no neighbours to worry about, so I am a little wary of buying a low powered Amp.

It's always nice to have plenty in reserve when you're in the mood to rattle the windows !

 

[CnoEvil]

PeteAllen is spot on with his comments about power. I have a Musical Fidlity AMS 35i, which has 35W and drives some Kef Ref 205/2 speakers louder than is comfortable, in a room that is 16ft x 22ft x 11ft. It's also the best amp I've heard under £10k.....so don't rule an amp out on power before hearing it with the D38s, which are fairly efficient.

When you go for demo, try to have no pre-conceived ideas about brand or power. An open mind is key to not making a mistake.

Also, don't jump at the first piece of kit that sounds good, as you could be missing out on something better.

Try to get a listen to an amp in each catagory ie. SS Class A, Valve, AB, Hybrid. The only Class D amps that I've liked are made by Bel Canto.

Naim and Cyrus are popular makes, and you need to hear for yourself if you like their presentation. In my case, I prefer all the amps I've listed above......but it's very subjective.

The two dealers that I use, allow me to take home stuff to try...but I have a good relationship with both. Other dealers charge you for the goods, and then refund on return. Having bought the D38s, you should have enough of a relationship with your dealer to allow this.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think you should worry about the watts too much - it's the quality of the watts that is most important. When I had the Masterclass power amp, i could go very loud indeed without problem. The only problem was that it has a softish bass (at all volumes), which combined badly with my sonus fabers which naturally have a soft bass too. However, i still miss that lush vivid class A sound - i will go back some day. My current amp, the chapter audio, is ultra clean, it just gets out of the way, which is great but also sometimes a bit of character is a good thing.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree - a variety of amps will help you understand the sound of each, and tell you more about what sound you are after.

Whatever you do, i highly recommend auditioning with a sugden, they are amazing amps, and the proac+sugden combination is a well known classic combo (just try googling "Proac sugden"). Apparently Proac used to use sugden amps themselves.

 

[Singslinger]

For speakers of that quality I'd recommend that if you want to keep the box count low, you start with at least the Naim Supernait. I've used ProAc speakers (the Response 1SC and now the Response D18s) with Naim amps for more than 15 years because I think the ProAc-Naim match is excellent. I'm sure the Naim 552/500 would be amazing but since these amps are very expensive, maybe the Supernait to begin with?

Good luck!

 

[Macspur]

I agree - a variety of amps will help you understand the sound of each, and tell you more about what sound you are after.

Whatever you do, i highly recommend auditioning with a sugden, they are amazing amps, and the proac+sugden combination is a well known classic combo (just try googling "Proac sugden"). Apparently Proac used to use sugden amps themselves.

I can vouch for the ProAc Sugden combo... looking forward to upgrading to the D18's

 

[Anonymous]

Typical, just found a pair of Cyrus Mono X amps brand new at a bargain price, and now you guys confuse me again :?

I''ll do some homework on the Sugden stuff now...

Thanks gents.

 

[Anonymous]

The fact that ProAc used to use Sugden kit to demonstrate their Speakers is good enough for me, but where do I stop, how much is enough ?

Discounting the A21SE/CD21SE as I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with that, I have the option of IA4 Integrated Amp, SPA4 Power Amp or two MPA4 Mono Power Amps.

If I go SPA/MPA I need an LA4 Pre Amp - I am assuming you cannot connect a CD Player directly to a Power Amp and I HAVE to go through a Pre Amp ?

Whichever one of those I chose I am left with the PDT4 CD Player.

That gives me three options, and the prices are £7675, £10625 and £14670 respectively.

To clarify :

IA4, PDT4, £7675.

SPA4, LA4, PDT4, £10625.

MPA4x2, LA4, PDT4, £14760.

My main reservation with the IA4 is that it's only 30 watts per channel, which im pretty sure is not going to be enough, so I'm guessing my question is, is it worth going to 2xMono Power Amps or would the single SPA4 Power Amp be sufficient ?

And how is my girlfriend going to react when I tell her I've just spent twenty grand on a Hi Fi 8)

 

[Anonymous]

You won't be able to drive the power amp direct from cd player unless it has volume control like my old Opus 21.

30W of the IA4 may be enough. Look at the reviews of the MF AMS-35i which only has 35w, and they say it can run most speakers loud. The ProAcs are 90db sensitivity which is an easy load. Perhaps Proac themselves can say? I remember in the past they were quite responsive.

I also advise you to change the amp first, let that settle in, work out if you need to replace the cd player, and if so, in which direction you want the system to move.

 

[WishTree]

I think Proacs sound really great with pathos!! - My 2 pence!!

 

[El Hefe]

The D38s should sound much meatier then my D18s. I suggest to demo Musical Fidelity line up of their amplifiers. M3, M6, AMS or Titan. Good luck.

 

[noogle]

Musical Fidelity Titan = £19,995

 

[El Hefe]

Musical Fidelity Titan = £19,995

Why not? Go for it.....

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Pete.

The whole Roksan kit has been moved to another room, so I have a clean slate, needing an Amp and CD Player.

 

[Anonymous]

Musical Fidelity Titan = £19,995

Why not? Go for it.....

You guys are a terrible influence !!!