Do power cords make a difference? Double blind testing...

[admin_exported]

I found this an interesting read. Make of it what you will folks. Although there are some faults outlined, the results seem to be quite clear in showing that statistically, it's difficult to prove that they make any difference at all.
EDITED BY MODS - house rules infringement.

 

[stephennic]

Hi,

I tested 5 power cords on my system with a engineer friend. It was clear to us that they can make a significant difference soundwise even my wife could tell when we changed the leads.

Cheers,

Steve.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Steve. That's not quite as accurate as the experiment in the article. For numerous reasons. But if you get a gain out of the cables, however subjective, that's good.

 

[stephennic]

Hi,

Where is the article - i cant find it.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

EDITED BY MODS - please do not discuss moderation

 

[RCduck7]

Again a non believer? How many topics will i come across on this subject.

Most people don't have Supra's, clearer audio's, Russ Andrews.... laying around in the house to test the waters, i would say, go to a dealer and let you proove otherwise.

If for instance you can flick between 2 the same sources (CD player or DAC) with a standard power cord on source 1 and a good burned in power cord like a supra or so then you should hear a difference.

But how much difference you hear depends oh how good and tansparant the source, amplifier, speakers is.

Some sources (like my Xindak DAC) is very dependent on the quality of the power cord, while others much lesser.

And the room should be acousticly made with minimum reflections as it is easier to pick up on changes.

Here a topic i wrote when i compared 2 DAC's, i was suprised how big a difference some power cords made.

http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/263585.aspx

 

[Anonymous]

EDITED BY MODS - please do not discuss moderation

 

[kena]

well my 3.5K RA power lead makes great toast... Oops sorry wrong thread.!

 

[clearer_audio]

RCduck7:
Most people don't have Supra's, clearer audio's, Russ Andrews.... laying around in the house to test the waters, i would say, go to a dealer and let you proove otherwise

Hello all

We only sell our products direct to the consumer at the moment (I believe Russ Andrews is the same although Supra do have dealers) so you will not be able to test our products in a hi-fi shop. In addition we believe that testing is best carried out in your own system since many variables affect performance. This way you can assess the differences in performance in the context of your own listening/viewing environment. As such we offer a 60 Day Money Back Guarantee so products can be returned to us for a full refund.

Best regards,

Darren

 

[RCduck7]

clearer_audio:RCduck7:

Most people don't have Supra's, clearer audio's, Russ Andrews.... laying around in the house to test the waters, i would say, go to a dealer and let you proove otherwise

Hello all We only sell our products direct to the consumer at the moment (I believe Russ Andrews is the same although Supra do have dealers) so you will not be able to test our products in a hi-fi shop. In addition we believe that testing is best carried out in your own system since many variables affect performance. This way you can assess the differences in performance in the context of your own listening/viewing environment. As such we offer a 60 Day Money Back Guarantee so products can be returned to us for a full refund. Best regards, Darren

That's great!

I'm from Belgium, do they have euro power cords?

Shipping would be a bit higher to belgium if i have to order from the UK but i cannot expect this to be returned... Or do they?

 

[idc]

RCduck7:

Some sources (like my Xindak DAC) is very dependent on the quality of the power cord, while others much lesser.

I found that as well. A Russ Andrews power cable made no discernable difference to a Rega amp, but it did improve the sound with an Arcam CDP.

As for euro plugs, compatibility, email or phone RA, I have always found them helpful, I am sure Clearer Audio will be along soon to answer your question and you can always try Olson - http://www.olson.co.uk/products.htm. They definitely do all sorts of plugs etc.

 

[Anonymous]

clearer_audio:RCduck7:
Most people don't have Supra's, clearer audio's, Russ Andrews.... laying around in the house to test the waters, i would say, go to a dealer and let you proove otherwise

Hello all

We only sell our products direct to the consumer at the moment (I believe Russ Andrews is the same although Supra do have dealers) so you will not be able to test our products in a hi-fi shop. In addition we believe that testing is best carried out in your own system since many variables affect performance. This way you can assess the differences in performance in the context of your own listening/viewing environment. As such we offer a 60 Day Money Back Guarantee so products can be returned to us for a full refund.

Best regards,

Darren

Hi Darren. I think it's glaringly obvious that if it could be shown that cables make a clearly audible difference with double blind testing etc that cable companies and accessory companies would have the results plastered across their websites and various advertising streams. Such experiments are very easy to set up and incredibly cheap. Overall, a wonderfully cost effective method of proving the efficacy of cables/interconnects/power cords etc, which would then undoubtedly lead to a huge increase in sales. No reason not to, really.

May I humbly suggest that no cable company does this because they know deep down that such double blind tests would show that they don't really make that much of a difference. If at all. As various such tests have shown in the past. It's all subjective. And if the listeners really want to hear an improvement, they will. Which is great. And I genuinely do feel happy for all those who purchase such products and feel that they are getting a benefit, be it real or not.

 

[professorhat]

So you're suggesting, deep down, Darren knows he's ripping people off?

 

[stephennic]

Hi baldemort,

From my experience the power cords do work as mentioned earlier. Its not just a placebo affect. My wife didnt even know we changed the power cord but noted the improvement. I use to not think they make a difference till I tried it for myself.

I remember years ago people use to question interconnects or speaker leads whether they would make a difference. Now it more acceptaed fact they do make a difference. It will be the same for power cords too

Have you ever tried various power cords for yourself?

Cheers,

Steve.

 

[Thaiman]

I was mad about this kinna thing! blind test, ABX blah blah bloody blah.

Now if I change anything and I can hear an improvment, I will buy it. I don't sit there with blind fold and listen to music, normally anyway

so why should I try to find out about the products with blind test???

I was a sceptic and many of my old posts shown just that (regretfuly!) There are many of Power cables that I thought they make no different at all and some that shock me with the improvment. Still, I am not one of those who keep changing cables forever hoping for a big improvment in sound, cables for me is pretty much fitted and forget.

 

[Anonymous]

the dearer the power cord the better the tea,

the really expensive power cords make the best coffee,
also dear power cords give you a better shock try it and see
only kidding ..

 

[Anonymous]

dvdaudio:
the dearer the power cord the better the tea,

the really expensive power cords make the best coffee,
also dear power cords give you a better shock try it and see
only kidding ..

hahaha.

On a serious note though, yes I have tried various power cords over the years, and neither me or thre of my hifi loving family members could tell a blind bit of difference. May they do have a minimal effect, but to charge some of the prices they do for a few strands of well insulated copper is a rip off in my opinion.

I don't believe that all cables are a con. I believe that some cables can make a difference, and that such differences can be explained in terms of simple irrefutable science. But even then, som eof the rubbish that the hifi industry comes out with is sickening. To hear that a new set of cables will 'set a system free' or 'dramatically tighten up a previously woolly bottom end' is misleading to say the least.

But, as I maintain, if you think it sounds better, buy it.

 

[Anonymous]

russ andews makes decent tea not as good as yorkshire tea but

 

[Anonymous]

one off:russ andews makes decent tea not as good as yorkshire tea but

In your opinion, that is. You should double blind test it to be sure.

 

[Anonymous]

So - the DOUBLE BLIND listening test discussion - I love it!

Do we REALLY need to go to such measures to establish if something we have just changed is worth spending the money on. People decide what to spend their money on, depending on what's important to them and shouldn't have to 'explain' their decision to others who don't share a belief system (whether they have tried 'said' item or not).

To me - an important factor is gained from the field of NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) in the 'Communication Model'.

It highlights how we all use our senses to take-in information from the world around us and filter this through, beliefs, experiences, personality traits among other things.... We delete what's not important to us (otherwise we would totally overload on the level of information around us that our senses COULD bring our attention to) and also distort some of what we take in ..... then generalise on other things.

This filtering process then leaves us with our "internal representation" of the external world.

Hence - by definition - we can ONLY ever have OUR PERCEPTION of the external world - and can never experience 'reality' as a single definable truth. This explains how several people can attend the same event and hold differing views on it afterwards.... since we all will filter the incoming information in a slightly different way to make our internal perception of it.

So you see - if by KNOWING that you have changed something to an item costing X, it may allow you to filter the incoming event to enjoy it more by an amount that you feel justifies the price - then it IS BETTER - because you can only experience the world based on your percetion of it. Your perception of it IS REALITY TO YOU ...... so you don't need to really explain yourself to anyone else who happens not to believe it (or hear the same difference) - because as per the above - we all filter the external world slightly diferently (or VERY differently).

If the person who cannot hear the difference is happy with their decision - great - they save their money, or spend it on something else!

BUT - that doesn't mean it's not made a difference to others sitting next to you.

Someone isn't likely to spend money on the thing if they have not heard a difference, or at least return it afterwards as is often possible - since that would not make sense!

You may feel they have been ripped off - but please, we're all grown-ups [ish!!] ... so I prefer to think that the decision to buy was based on a truth that the individual experienced in their 'model of the world' ..... their perception as it were...... and it doesn't really matter if theri eyes were open or closed when they heard what they heard. FACT IS, THEY HEARD WHAT THEY HEARD AND DECIDED ACCORDINGLY.

Doubtless this will give rise to more discussion points......... from both sides of the fence!

 

[Anonymous]

dvdaudio:

the dearer the power cord the better the tea,

the really expensive power cords make the best coffee,
also dear power cords give you a better shock try it and see
only kidding ..

How do you use a power cord to make coffee - is that instead of a filter, or to stir it with ........ ;-)

 

[Anonymous]

Nice piece BigAir. NLP is a very interesting topic. And I think that explains very well why person A may listen to exactly the same "thing" as person B, and hear two totally different realities.

 

[Anonymous]

Certainly is a fascinating subject NLP - I'm a Master Practitioner!

Yes - my aim was to give some explanation on why people can have different perceptions on such a subjective matter as Hi-Fi sound with our individual preferences.... and also why I feel blind listening a futile exercise in 'prooving' an item's useful sound changing quality etc etc.