Do all Blu-ray players output the same quality sound and vision?

[altruistic.lemon]

This came up in another thread and thought it deserved a thread of its own.

WHF certainly don't think so if you read the reviews - hope this link displays properly, it looks fine in the edit but a bit weird in view - http://www.whathifi.com/reviews/home-cinema/blu-ray-players but many in the forum think there's no difference.

Opinions?

 

[manicm]

Some here in the WHF forums believe so, but if they're basing it on 'scientific' fact, they're wrong.

Most premium players include the ubiquitous Marvel ODEO video chipset which includes the video DAC. Some like the Marantz/Denon include the Anchor-Bay chipset. It boils down to this: do you believe all audio DAC chips sound the same? Note Wolfson, for example, have a range of DACs.

So are all DAC chips, video or audio, the same? NO. Can they sound/look different? YES.

Will the user notice? POSSIBLY.

 

[BenLaw]

In what way does a blu ray player convert video to analogue? Think HDMI...

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Some do and some don't.

 

[BenLaw]

They really don't.

 

[mr malarky]

Be interested to see a reply from WHF on this question?

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I think they are more or less the same. Some may upscale dvds better, some have more and varied connections, some are better made than others, some load quicker than others, but if you are just watching blu rays, the SQ and PQ is the same IMHO.

 

[strapped for cash]

Some here in the WHF forums believe so, but if they're basing it on 'scientific' fact, they're wrong.

Most premium players include the ubiquitous Marvel ODEO video chipset which includes the video DAC. Some like the Marantz/Denon include the Anchor-Bay chipset. It boils down to this: do you believe all audio DAC chips sound the same? Note Wolfson, for example, have a range of DACs.

So are all DAC chips, video or audio, the same? NO. Can they sound/look different? YES.

Will the user notice? POSSIBLY.

Yes, different BDPs use different processing chips, but as Ben says, no digital to analogue conversion takes place with video output over HDMI.

Marvell and Anchor Bay chips upscale lower resolution sources, but again no digital to analogue conversion takes place. Audio DACs and video processing chips do very different things.

There's some debate over whether certain higher-end BDPs add processing to 1080p content give images extra pop (undefeatable contrast or colour boosting, for example, or artificial sharpening). If so, viewers might think the resulting images look subjectively better.

 

[BenLaw]

There's some debate over whether certain higher-end BDPs add processing to 1080p content give images extra pop (undefeatable contrast or colour boosting, for example, or artificial sharpening). If so, viewers might think the resulting images look subjectively better.

Which are said to and which are not?

 

[strapped for cash]

Which are said to and which are not?

I think EllisDJ is better placed to advise on this. I've read something about the Denon DVD2500BT boosting colour (and perhaps contrast). I can't recall the specifics.*

I used to own this player, though I was using it with an uncalibrated Panasonic V20. Based on my experiences, I wouldn't be shocked to discover that some boosting was taking place.

Colour variations could be tested objectively with a reliable meter. (With each BDP running the same Rec.709 test patterns via disc or USB.)

Testing for variations of contrast should be easier. You could play greyscale ramps to check whether blacks crush and whites clip before they should. (A television's native contrast obviously won't change. If a BDP is boosting contrast to a notable degree this would manifest as crushing and clipping.)

* This sounds like a dodge. Hopefully EllisDJ can provide links to information on this subject. I think he did so a few months back.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I pretty much went through the entire new group of expensive Blu-ray players and all were the same, I have owned a cheap Sony Blu-ray player and a Playstation 3 but they didn't measure up to the expensive ones for me. I don't think you have to spend any more money than the Oppo 103 for sure.

 

[professorhat]

I definitely perceived differences when I did some side by side comparisons with my older player before I purchased my Marantz. Was it all in my head? Well yes, that's where my brain is...

But no, I didn't ABX test them, so feel free to listen to or ignore me as you feel fit.

 

[carter]

I find it hard to believe there is no difference between hi end and entry level players but I must admit I'm happy with what I've got and don't feel the need to spend a lot of money for daminishing returns.

Would like to see a side by side,budget bluray player,cheapo hdmi,standerd power cables next to a high end bluray with all the fancy hdmi's power cables and mains filters runing into identical amps and calibrated Tvs....blind test results would be interesting.

i personally think there would be a difference just not sure the extra cost is worth it to me for an extra couple of percent improvement

 

[fr0g]

I find it hard to believe there is no difference between hi end and entry level players but I must admit I'm happy with what I've got and don't feel the need to spend a lot of money for daminishing returns.

Would like to see a side by side,budget bluray player,cheapo hdmi,standerd power cables next to a high end bluray with all the fancy hdmi's power cables and mains filters runing into identical amps and calibrated Tvs....blind test results would be interesting.

i personally think there would be a difference just not sure the extra cost is worth it to me for an extra couple of percent improvement

What would the difference be down to?

If the bits coming from the player through the HDMI lead are not bit-perfect, for a start you will not get DTS, DD etc.

There is no scientific reason why they should differ, other than the very real effect of expectation. A shiny tank-like £1000 player looks a hell of a lot nicer than a Hwang-chong (or whatever), but if the Hwang-chong can deliver the same bitstream to the TV or receiver, then it will look and sound identical.

The PS3 looks, and sounds...identical to any other player, provided it works to spec.

Unfortunately, most people don't stop and think about it. They "expect" one to perform better than the other, and it does...for them. That's how there are differences...

And that includes the WHF test crew.

 

[mr malarky]

No answer yet from WHF on this question?

 

[ellisdj]

I have made my point pretty clear on here as to what I think on some players vs others. Its only based on my experiences at the time - I know a lot of others see no difference at the same time so go with what you think is best for you

I would like to get an oppo to try out, that wont happen sadly.

I found out today that the McIntosh Blu Ray Player $8000 is based on the Marantz 7007 - says a lot about that design potential when there are not tight budget constraints.

https://upgradecompany.com/upgrade-company-products/marantz/product/33-marantz-ud-7007-signature-edition-upgraded-universal-player

If anyone is shopping buy the upgraded one

 

[carter]

I find it hard to believe there is no difference between hi end and entry level players but I must admit I'm happy with what I've got and don't feel the need to spend a lot of money for daminishing returns.

Would like to see a side by side,budget bluray player,cheapo hdmi,standerd power cables next to a high end bluray with all the fancy hdmi's power cables and mains filters runing into identical amps and calibrated Tvs....blind test results would be interesting.

i personally think there would be a difference just not sure the extra cost is worth it to me for an extra couple of percent improvement

What would the difference be down to?

If the bits coming from the player through the HDMI lead are not bit-perfect, for a start you will not get DTS, DD etc.

There is no scientific reason why they should differ, other than the very real effect of expectation. A shiny tank-like £1000 player looks a hell of a lot nicer than a Hwang-chong (or whatever), but if the Hwang-chong can deliver the same bitstream to the TV or receiver, then it will look and sound identical.

The PS3 looks, and sounds...identical to any other player, provided it works to spec.

Unfortunately, most people don't stop and think about it. They "expect" one to perform better than the other, and it does...for them. That's how there are differences...

And that includes the WHF test crew.

you could well be correct about there being no difference and if there was I'm not sure it would be big enough for me to warent the difference in price but I'm sure the better quality components must give you a little something more.

when I added my mains filters I'm positive my pq improved but loads of people have said it must be my imagination,I've also had people tell me hdmi cables either work or they don't but I've had one lead that gave me sparkles and another that made my picture look like a negative both cables worked but defiantly not as good as my curent ones,so I do believe quality of components could efect things.

i think the above test would be great for what hi fi to do at one of the shows......not sure they would go for it.

 

[BenLaw]

I've also had people tell me hdmi cables either work or they don't but I've had one lead that gave me sparkles and another that made my picture look like a negative both cables worked

Both of those effects would qualify as 'not working'.

 

[carter]

I've also had people tell me hdmi cables either work or they don't but I've had one lead that gave me sparkles and another that made my picture look like a negative both cables worked

Both of those effects would qualify as 'not working'.

indeed but if the "not working" was more suttle to the point of just being a bad picture could it be down to having cheap parts to the point of not being as good as high end gear

could it be possible that another one of my cables dosent work either but because it works better than the really bad ones I'm losing pq.

im not trying to be argumentative I have a budget system that I'm happy with but my basic understanding was an analogue signal could work and work badley but digital worked or didn't work at all in my experience it can work badley the same as analogue

so surely it's possible for components in a bluray to do the same potentially if they maybe cheaper.

 

[cheeseboy]

indeed but if the "not working" was more suttle to the point of just being a bad picture could it be down to having cheap parts to the point of not being as good as high end gear

[/quote]

nope, as said, things such as sparkles and the negative issue you had were faulty cables. iirc there's about 19 pins on a hdmi cable. All it takes is for one of those connections to be faulty and you'll get things like the sparkles. You won't see things like a sharper image etc.

 

[eggontoast]

Just my tuppence on this subject.

I have only owned two blu-ray players, the first a budget one, the second a mid level player. When I 'upgraded' I didn't notice any difference in PQ for blu-ray discs, I did however notice an improvement for DVD PQ. The main reason for upgrading though was I got pissed off with waiting for the budget player to load the disc. Obviously the build quality is also much improved.

 

[strapped for cash]

What would the difference be down to?

Potentially any differences could be down to forced digital image processing.

If this happens in higher end BDPs, to persuade owners that their money is well spent, cheaper BDPs may actually be more desirable.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

This results in a cleaner image though, and judder is better too.

 

[fr0g]

Just my tuppence on this subject.

I have only owned two blu-ray players, the first a budget one, the second a mid level player. When I 'upgraded' I didn't notice any difference in PQ for blu-ray discs, I did however notice an improvement for DVD PQ. The main reason for upgrading though was I got pissed off with waiting for the budget player to load the disc. Obviously the build quality is also much improved.

Absolutely correct

If you buy a top end Denon / Oppo etc player with state-of the art upscaling you will notice a big impovement in PQ (when playing back lower resolution material)

I stuck with the PS3 myself, as I find it as good as any mid-range player I've seen.

 

[DandyCobalt]

If you have a big screen and good surround system, then you'll see and hear differences between the lower end BD players and the upper end.

If you don't have a big screen and lots of speakers, then save the money.