fr0g said:
That wasn't my experiencve when I did the Big Question up at WHFSV HQ, with two other volunteers.
Clear differences in sound and audio between three different BD players, with a 65" Samsung, a KEF surround system etc etc.
Having said that, the three of us had different opinions on what we thought was the "best".
bigboss
Moderator
bigboss
Moderator
DandyCobalt said:
I believe my system is decent enough to bring out the differences if any. But I couldn't notice any difference when I compared blu ray players at different price brackets.
The Big Question compared an Oppo (I think it was either the 93 or 95), a Panasonic at about £250, and a sub-£100 Sony.
All three of us saw and heard differences. There were definite differences for me in things like the sound of a hi-hat, snare and kick drums. Also, the presence of different instruments was much better defined with the Oppo. (we were using a BD of a Beyoncé concert in Las Vegas).
For images, I found that the cheaper BD player gave a picture that was very overblown (if that's the right expression), so that the movie (I think it was Mr and Mrs Jones) looked more like one of those "filming the film being made" clips instead of the real thing.
The Oppo was much more cinematic, but this wasn't the preferred choice of one of us.
A criticism of the test that has been raised has been that the three BD players were not calibrated individually with the Samsung TV. I can't answer that one, but I don't remember the WHFSV team changing the tv settings between BD players.
Perhaps the TV was calibated specifically/accidentally just for the Oppo?
All three of us saw and heard differences. There were definite differences for me in things like the sound of a hi-hat, snare and kick drums. Also, the presence of different instruments was much better defined with the Oppo. (we were using a BD of a Beyoncé concert in Las Vegas).
For images, I found that the cheaper BD player gave a picture that was very overblown (if that's the right expression), so that the movie (I think it was Mr and Mrs Jones) looked more like one of those "filming the film being made" clips instead of the real thing.
The Oppo was much more cinematic, but this wasn't the preferred choice of one of us.
A criticism of the test that has been raised has been that the three BD players were not calibrated individually with the Samsung TV. I can't answer that one, but I don't remember the WHFSV team changing the tv settings between BD players.
Perhaps the TV was calibated specifically/accidentally just for the Oppo?
DandyCobalt said:
If it was only the one tv, it's very hard to compare them. Ideally you need 3 indentical tv's all set up exactly the same, with all 3 players playing the same thing at the same time. Otherwise you're just comparing what you can remember, not what's being displayed.
cheeseboy said:
Fortunately, my memory is not quite that of a goldfish just yet
Having recorded and mastered music professionally, my ear for subtle differences in how a drum set sounds is not bad. Better than our drummer's :wall:
The differences in PQ were very noticeable.
DandyCobalt said:cheeseboy said:
Fortunately, my memory is not quite that of a goldfish just yet
Having recorded and mastered music professionally, my ear for subtle differences in how a drum set sounds is not bad. Better than our drummer's :wall:
The differences in PQ were very noticeable.
good for you, but as we all know, memory is very infallible and even the most professional of people are not immune I'm afraid.
Not saying that those there didn't observe any differences, regardless though, it's still a crap way of testing like that and waaaaay to many influencing factors in order to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion other that "we plugged some different players in to a tv and watched/listened them"....
I think that type of test is spot on to prove to the people there - you dont know anything about anything being played or played on.
No preconceieved ideas - Can you see / hear a difference - In an environment that has a minimal effect on whats being produced. Unlike most environments at home which are having a MAJOR effect on whats being produced
You dont have to see or hear it....
Running 3 tvs next to each other would be good for picture comparison no doubt - obviously no good for sound - thats all based on memory as it always is - and that is how we judge better or worse.
A lot of people would actually perceive worse/ noisey sound as being better as its more what their used to! Noise adds to the sound - giving it false dynamics, and probably heavier bass (which we all like) - however its actually clouding the end result.
That goes the same for picture as well - not everyone will be used to seeing a true accurate image and that will affect the reasoning on better / worse
No preconceieved ideas - Can you see / hear a difference - In an environment that has a minimal effect on whats being produced. Unlike most environments at home which are having a MAJOR effect on whats being produced
You dont have to see or hear it....
Running 3 tvs next to each other would be good for picture comparison no doubt - obviously no good for sound - thats all based on memory as it always is - and that is how we judge better or worse.
A lot of people would actually perceive worse/ noisey sound as being better as its more what their used to! Noise adds to the sound - giving it false dynamics, and probably heavier bass (which we all like) - however its actually clouding the end result.
That goes the same for picture as well - not everyone will be used to seeing a true accurate image and that will affect the reasoning on better / worse
chrisr1718
Well-known member
DandyCobalt said:
DandyCobalt, I did the Big Question as well and I agree, we all noticed a definite difference between players.
I can remember one where the picture looked as if it had been airbrushed, the Beyonce one I think.
I need to dig out my copy to remind me what we all said.
A good day was had by all. Bring back The Big Question! I'm up for it!
bigboss
Moderator
Check what they say on every blu ray player review on AV forums. The reviewers are also professional calibrators. The way Big Question is set up, makes you look for differences as you're made to comment on differences. If everyone spots the difference consistently, only then it is valid. Otherwise not. We will be able to spot differences without changing anything in the set up, if we're told that a change has been made and we're expected to spot the difference. I attended a Big Question session myself, and all 3 of us came to the same conclusion, which puts some validity to the test.
Regarding picture quality, for blu-ray disc playback, they are all the same providing there are no picture processing modes being applied that may alter the signal.
I recently loaned an Oppo BDP-105 to compare it against my Sony BDP-S760. There was absolutely no difference in picture quality and I couldn't see any differences for DVD either. For 3D comparison, I checked against my PS3 and again saw no difference between them.
I was quite shocked to say the least but also happy, as that now saves me dropping £1k on a new machine. Having said that, all the other features of the Oppo and the ability to be able to buy it multi zone means that I'm still considering it or it's baby brother.
I recently loaned an Oppo BDP-105 to compare it against my Sony BDP-S760. There was absolutely no difference in picture quality and I couldn't see any differences for DVD either. For 3D comparison, I checked against my PS3 and again saw no difference between them.
I was quite shocked to say the least but also happy, as that now saves me dropping £1k on a new machine. Having said that, all the other features of the Oppo and the ability to be able to buy it multi zone means that I'm still considering it or it's baby brother.
bigboss said:
If I was at say a wine tasting (or tea tasting) with a bunch of other people, then there will be different palates/noses etc doing the testing.
Some will be more acutely aware of subtle differences - my wife has a much finer sense of smell than I have for example.
If two people don't spot the same differences, then it does not mean that differences do not exist.
Having listened a lot to subtle differences in drum sounds through a recording process, where small tweeks etc to modelling/eq etc change the sound, I was acutely aware of the differences in the drum noises that were being produced by the three different machines at the BQ, because I was listening for them.
Wheteher subtle differences are worth the extra £100/£1,000 is really up to the buyer and his/her wallet.
DandyCobalt said:
Running the same test for the same person, multiple times would do (and ensuring no processing was being doing).
Posts above are correct. Barring picture processing, there "can be no difference". And experience agrees with me.
professorhat
Well-known member
fr0g said:
And yet doesn't agree with others' experience. A conundrum that I suggest can only be solved only by everyone trying to enforce their own viewpoints on to others.
Everyone... go!
professorhat
Well-known member
gel said:professorhat said:
Having we all been trying to do that already?
Excellent - bonus marks for being ahead of the curve
professorhat said:gel said:professorhat said:
Having we all been trying to do that already?
Excellent - bonus marks for being ahead of the curve
i actually thought this was almost an actual discussion compared to previous type topics ;-)professorhat said:gel said:professorhat said:
Having we all been trying to do that already?
Excellent - bonus marks for being ahead of the curve
bigboss said:
If all 3 people at the Big Question said they saw and heard differences between the players puts validity in the test does it not....
It doesnt matter if 2 people disagreed on what they thought was better, thats irrelevant. I am also not silly/blind to what else is published - I read it all the time about digital cables as well. Again my experiences dont follow that thought either
The Big Question involves a small group of people making subjective evaluations of hardware performance. In other words, we can't learn anything definitive from this process, though it's good for a magazine article.
The OP's question can only be answered through objective testing, using reliable, calibrated equipment to measure performance variations among players.
Threads such as this otherwise amount to repetition of contrary viewpoints, which are also based on subjective evaluations.
The OP's question can only be answered through objective testing, using reliable, calibrated equipment to measure performance variations among players.
Threads such as this otherwise amount to repetition of contrary viewpoints, which are also based on subjective evaluations.
In recent times I've used a high end denon 3313, a mid range pioneer 450 and my humble ps3. Can't tell the difference in bluray PQ and if there is a difference in DVD it's too small to be worth mentioning. Audio I just bitstream and again not significant enough to tell much difference. To me the premium 500 plus price is about build, file support, features like mc analogue out etc... Not huge improvements in sound or visuals.
I would be inclined to say there are differences.
My reason for this is due to the fact that I have 4, yep 4 bluray capable devices plugged into my main tele. My reference player, my US/3D Player, PS3 and PS4.
I have used my bluray calibration disc on each one, and each one requires to do very different adjustments to the tv's picture in order to get the same image. In fact, the PS3 even showed it had a fault in the video processing in that it couldn't reveal the darkest strip in the brightness test pattern.
So to answer your question, no, I don't believe they all output the same.
My reason for this is due to the fact that I have 4, yep 4 bluray capable devices plugged into my main tele. My reference player, my US/3D Player, PS3 and PS4.
I have used my bluray calibration disc on each one, and each one requires to do very different adjustments to the tv's picture in order to get the same image. In fact, the PS3 even showed it had a fault in the video processing in that it couldn't reveal the darkest strip in the brightness test pattern.
So to answer your question, no, I don't believe they all output the same.
There are bound to be differences. It's not like lossless digital audio: there's no direct correlation between the data on the discs and the bitstream that's fed through the HDMI cable. So in a weird kind of way it's not possible for a BD player to send a bit-perfect output to the telly in the sense that people understand with lossless audio. Therefore there's bound to be differences between how various players achieve it.
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram