Disappointing first hifi experience!

[muziclover]

I am a brand new member, just ventured into hifi teritorry. I usually listen to soft music but also listen to rock, classical and a wide variety of other genres. I do enjoy bass tones in music (even in the soft ones!). Being an absolute newbie, I was aiming for the mid-range system recommended by what hifi i.e. Arcam fmj A19 + Audiolab 8200CD + Tannoy Revolution DC6T SE. I went for a demo at Richer sounds. I was told that the Audiolab 8200CD would be quite 'bright' and may not be to my liking. I listened to Arcam fmj A19 + Arcam CD17 (+ Tannoy Rev DC6T SE or Dali Zensor 7) vs Marantz CD6005 + Marantz PM6005 but indeed found the Marantz quite bright compared to the Arcam combination. I must admit that I found the Arcam amp + CD player with the Tannoys the most soothing and balanced to listen to. I however was still disappointed with the bass performance! Finally, reliant upon numerous good reviews and forum reads, I took the daring step of parting with a significant sum of money and bought the ARCAM fmj A19 amp, ARCAM CD17 CD player and Tannoy Rev DC6T SE from Richer sounds.

My lounge is 21 feet by 14 feet and the only way I could place the speakers is along the length. I am still finding the system lacking in bass tones and I must admit that even after spending so much, I am still a bit disappointed! (started thinking, should I have bought a cheaper all in all system or mini hifi system and it would have sounded the same!) I would be extremely grateful if anybody kindly gives me some suggestions about the following:

1. Is the performance sub-optimal due to the size of the room? I am of course going to try different speaker positions.

2. Would the addition of a subwoofer improve the bass performance? (The Arcam fmj A19 has amp out). If so, which one would be the best match (sub £500, preferably £200-£300) with this system?

3. I also have a huge cassette collection and some vinyls. I am planning to buy a cassette player and turntable. I have decided about the Project debut carbon for the turntable. The only two cassette decks available now in UK are the Teac AD-800 CD+Cassette player (£239, Amazon) and Teac W-890 R double cassette deck (£248 in Amazon). Would these decks go with this system?

4. Should I swap the Tannoy speakers with something else in this price range which has a better bass performance? I did listen to DALI zensor 7 but liked the Tannoys better.

I shall be grateful for any advice / suggestions.

 

[matthewpiano]

I think you should listen to some B&W speakers with your set-up. I'm not sure you have purchased the right speakers for your tastes as Tannoys have never been overtly bass heavy speakers.

 

[wilro15]

Experiment with positioning the speakers, that makes a big difference when you get it right. Try moving them closer to the wall, then listen, then move them again, listen some more and repeat.

 

[BigH]

Welcome to the forum (madhouse).

Yes your room will be a factor. Tannoys should not be lacking to bass, it could the amp. maybe the Roksan Kandy K2 would be better, believe RS stock this, you could exchange at little cost. Sub would give you more bass but good ones are not cheap and canbe difficult to integrate esp. with Floorstanders. Yes try positioning the speakers, maybe they are too far apart, make sure you have them in phase.

Not sure about cassette decks maybe a used one would be better?

 

[matthewpiano]

Experiment with positioning the speakers, that makes a big difference when you get it right. Try moving them closer to the wall, then listen, then move them again, listen some more and repeat.

Actually, yes, this is much better than the advice I gave you. Of course you should experiment with positioning.

 

[Philim]

IWelcome to the nightmare world of hifi

Before spending anymore money i would give yourself a little time to get used to your system

. Also make sure you havent got your +/- mixed up when connecting your speakers .....

You have the bristol hifi show in feb which could be a good place to hear different setups and compare them to your own.

 

[Philim]

Ps. Dont be steered too much by reviews and forum opinions. I did the same when starting out and ended with a roksan kandy. Some people on here love but i hated it. An awful amp. The best way i found was to visit as many dealers (not RS) and find out what i liked.

Stupidly i then got into naim but thats anothwr story....

 

[radiorog]

Sorry to hear about your problems with your system. I auditioned the a19 before any reviews cane out, and with my 4ohm speakers,I knew within ten seconds the amp was not for me. I heard virtually no bass what so ever. I was amazed when it started getting good reviews, but maybe this is because,as whf stated, the speakers need very carefully consideration. I think the more efficient your speakers the better. I personally doubt speaker placement will make enough difference for you, as from my experience,initial hunches are usually right,and if you think there is a large enough issue to ask for help on a forum, moving the speakers won't give you enough of a change. I would check with other members how efficient your speakers are,and if need be,swap the speakers or the amp, and get happy again asap. You will still get good money for either your amp or speakers. I personally don't do sub's atm, as like to concentrate on getting as good a sound as possible with just speakers and amp.....because I feel in this price bracket, you get the best returns for money spent to sound quality achieved without a sub.

 

[danrv]

Experiment with positioning the speakers, that makes a big difference when you get it right. Try moving them closer to the wall, then listen, then move them again, listen some more and repeat.

Yes, definately. it does take time and patience. Are the Tannoys fully run in? I don't think your going to be short of bass with those and it will improve with use. I've been in the same position although it was too much bass in my case. As suggested, double check the speaker cable polarity.

I have my speakers 8 ft apart with very little toe-in and I sit the same distance from them with the tweeters at ear level.

If really not happy, Richer Sounds should be able to exchange your speakers and/or amp. I can certainly recommend Roksan Kandy K2 amp and CD player with Dali speakers or with the Tannoys. I've yet to find any genre the Roksans don't do well and I listen to all types. Don't rush into anything though.

 

[respe]

I am not sure how long you have had the componenets of your system, but a call to Richer to find out if you have time left to swap any out would not be a bad idea.

Then I would think about your room layout, and the best way to place the speakers. I would start with them close in to a rear wall, and about 6 to 8 feet apart, depending how far away you are sitting. Given the nature if the horn loaded tweeter, toe then in to cross just in front of your seating position and play around from that point.

Nothing with a 6" bass driver is going to be a bass monster, unless it is electronically enhanced is some way, but should provide enopugh bass for most listners. Make sure that you have the speakers wired in phase with the amp +>+ etc. It is also worth trying the speakers +>- just in case the amp reverses phase. It should be obvious which way is best.

A sub can fill in the bottom end, but they are hard to balance into a system, as it is very easy for the bass to swamp out everything else, and make the entire system sound slow and ponderous.

 

[xlider]

Did you go through the running in period already (usually around 60 hours ON)... Things might still change in perception, along with positoning in the room.

 

[andyjm]

I am a brand new member, just ventured into hifi teritorry. I usually listen to soft music but also listen to rock, classical and a wide variety of other genres. I do enjoy bass tones in music (even in the soft ones!). Being an absolute newbie, I was aiming for the mid-range system recommended by what hifi i.e. Arcam fmj A19 + Audiolab 8200CD + Tannoy Revolution DC6T SE. I went for a demo at Richer sounds. I was told that the Audiolab 8200CD would be quite 'bright' and may not be to my liking. I listened to Arcam fmj A19 + Arcam CD17 (+ Tannoy Rev DC6T SE or Dali Zensor 7) vs Marantz CD6005 + Marantz PM6005 but indeed found the Marantz quite bright compared to the Arcam combination. I must admit that I found the Arcam amp + CD player with the Tannoys the most soothing and balanced to listen to. I however was still disappointed with the bass performance! Finally, reliant upon numerous good reviews and forum reads, I took the daring step of parting with a significant sum of money and bought the ARCAM fmj A19 amp, ARCAM CD17 CD player and Tannoy Rev DC6T SE from Richer sounds.

My lounge is 21 feet by 14 feet and the only way I could place the speakers is along the length. I am still finding the system lacking in bass tones and I must admit that even after spending so much, I am still a bit disappointed! (started thinking, should I have bought a cheaper all in all system or mini hifi system and it would have sounded the same!) I would be extremely grateful if anybody kindly gives me some suggestions about the following:

1. Is the performance sub-optimal due to the size of the room? I am of course going to try different speaker positions.

2. Would the addition of a subwoofer improve the bass performance? (The Arcam fmj A19 has amp out). If so, which one would be the best match (sub £500, preferably £200-£300) with this system?

3. I also have a huge cassette collection and some vinyls. I am planning to buy a cassette player and turntable. I have decided about the Project debut carbon for the turntable. The only two cassette decks available now in UK are the Teac AD-800 CD+Cassette player (£239, Amazon) and Teac W-890 R double cassette deck (£248 in Amazon). Would these decks go with this system?

4. Should I swap the Tannoy speakers with something else in this price range which has a better bass performance? I did listen to DALI zensor 7 but liked the Tannoys better.

I shall be grateful for any advice / suggestions.

The shape of the room, speaker and listening position have more effect on bass than any other factor. You could easily change your equipment and find little or no improvement.

Google 'speaker positioning', 'room treatment' and 'room equalistion' before you consider making any equipment changes.

 

[davedotco]

You have spent a considerable sum on a system that did not impress in the shop and, reading your post quite carefully, was not giving you the sound you were looking for. I am forced to ask why?

Furthermore, since the system failed to deliver what you wanted in the shop, what made you think it would be different in your home?

If you can, talk to Richer and explain that you have made a terrible mistake and see if you can return everything for a full refund.

Then see if you can find a proper dealer who will take you through some sensible options, listen to your input and put together something that you actually like and is to your taste. Ask him to help with the installation.

 

[BigH]

You have spent a considerable sum on a system that did not impress in the shop and, reading your post quite carefully, was not giving you the sound you were looking for. I am forced to ask why?

Furthermore, since the system failed to deliver what you wanted in the shop, what made you think it would be different in your home?

If you can, talk to Richer and explain that you have made a terrible mistake and see if you can return everything for a full refund.

Then see if you can find a proper dealer who will take you through some sensible options, listen to your input and put together something that you actually like and is to your taste. Ask him to help with the installation.

I think you can return to RS but there is a fee maybe 10% if you don't exchnge, also I would check the time maybe only 7 days?

I'm not sure what sort of bass you are looking for? I'm like Dave I don't like an excess of bass.

 

[drummerman]

Naim amplifiers have low electrical damping, around 12, so bass is more fullsome compared to some others, especially with under damped speakers.

Hope that helps.

Regards

 

[markiedee]

I have to disagree with some of the comments on here, I had an arcam a19 with kef r100s and bass was definitely there. It came across rich and deep considering the dimensions of the kefs.

I had sound style z1 speaker stands sitting on top of quite thick granite work tops with atacama isolation gel pads. Bass was anemic in the beginning but as time worn on and in use the bass started to get more defined my music tastes are reggae, r'n'b, hip hop drum and bass.

I find the arcam a19 to be a very good amp.

 

[danrv]

I have to disagree with some of the comments on here, I had an arcam a19 with kef r100s and bass was definitely there. It came across rich and deep considering the dimensions of the kefs.

I had sound style z1 speaker stands sitting on top of quite thick granite work tops with atacama isolation gel pads. Bass was anemic in the beginning but as time worn on and in use the bass started to get more defined my music tastes are reggae, r'n'b, hip hop drum and bass.

I find the arcam a19 to be a very good amp.

Sounds promising. I think the Tannoys just need running in. Problem is it needs to be done before the exchange/return period expires.

 

[Coll]

I have an Arcam A19 with Audiolab 8200 cd player but speaker wise have Monitor Audio New Silver 6 and there is no shortage of good clean bass. I heard the Tannoys but did not like them thin and thrashy is how I would describe them.

I previously had a very good subwoofer with a 12 inch driver and 500 watt amplifier but find that it is no longer required and have now sold it.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

3. I also have a huge cassette collection and some vinyls. I am planning to buy a cassette player and turntable. I have decided about the Project debut carbon for the turntable. The only two cassette decks available now in UK are the Teac AD-800 CD+Cassette player (£239, Amazon) and Teac W-890 R double cassette deck (£248 in Amazon). Would these decks go with this system?

I wouldn't buy a new cassette deck if I was you, there are some great quality second hand ones available for very little money.

 

[Native_bon]

3. I also have a huge cassette collection and some vinyls. I am planning to buy a cassette player and turntable. I have decided about the Project debut carbon for the turntable. The only two cassette decks available now in UK are the Teac AD-800 CD+Cassette player (£239, Amazon) and Teac W-890 R double cassette deck (£248 in Amazon). Would these decks go with this system?

I wouldn't buy a new cassette deck if I was you, there are some great quality second hand ones available for very little money.

+1

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

For instance, this is a perfectly decent cassette deck, and it's available for peanuts.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Teac-V-1050-stereo-cassette-recorder-no-reserve-/191029043975?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Cassette_Tape_Players&hash=item2c7a37e307

 

[Viking]

Sorry to hear that you're not happy with your latest gear but I hope you get some good ideas to resolve this problem. I've heard that the Arcam amp was pretty good but lacks drive and power though I have heard that the Tannoy's were very good. I think you should try some B&W speakers. The 684's or the 683's would suit very well and are a good match for the arcam. I recently bought a pair od 683's for a 6.5m x 4.5m living room, along with the Nad 356BEE and am very pleased with the sound. I did however notice that the speakers needed moving about by a couple of cm's at a time to get the right sound. Too near a wall, too much bass, a bit to the left and the bass went out into the hallway etc. You get the idea. Also found my coffee table was playing tricks with the sound.............when I sat down on the sofa, the bass dissapeared! The table must have been deflecting the bass. Angled just one of the speakers and it's all sorted. Also make sure you're using some good cables (speaker cables & between hi fi products) I'm using some chord carnivals (silver screen) and Qed reference J2P. Anyway, be patient and have a go at some small adjustments before you make a final decision. Don't forget that it all needs a running in time before it all starts to sing.

If you are going to change the speakers then I'd suggest a nice pair of B&W's. I've heard they partner well with Arcam and I think they're great speakers. You might be lucky like me and get 400 quid off the price!

I tried the Dali Zensor 7s and 5s Lektor 6s B&W 685, 684 and 683, Q acoustics 2050i and concept 20 all in the same day and thought the 683's had the best overall sound and control. Although the 7s were very good to listen to, at times the bass was too much and over took the vocals, leaving just bass and high tones with no depth.

Hope this helps.

 

[davedotco]

I think most of these comments are well wide of the mark.

The OP has spent a four figure sum with a dealer who clearly did not listen to him, produced a sound that was unimpressive.

Why the OP actually bought the system I do not know but it is clearly not what he wanted or what he expected. What the OP needs is guidance as to what he can and can not expect for his money and help in putting a setup together that actually addresses his requirements.

This is best done with a dealer who will listen to you, demonstrate what can and can not be done, explain the futility of trying to get decent sound out of old cassettes and address all the rest of the issues the OP has. Do not take the dealers word on how highly rated the product he wants to sell you is, get him to prove what he says by demonstration.

As for this thread, just recommending that he swap one bit of gear for another, quite possibly equally as unsatisfactory, is not the way to go.

Go and get your money back....!

 

[matthewpiano]

I think most of these comments are well wide of the mark.

The OP has spent a four figure sum with a dealer who clearly did not listen to him, produced a sound that was unimpressive.

Why the OP actually bought the system I do not know but it is clearly not what he wanted or what he expected. What the OP needs is guidance as to what he can and can not expect for his money and help in putting a setup together that actually addresses his requirements.

This is best done with a dealer who will listen to you, demonstrate what can and can not be done, explain the futility of trying to get decent sound out of old cassettes and address all the rest of the issues the OP has. Do not take the dealers word on how highly rated the product he wants to sell you is, get him to prove what he says by demonstration.

As for this thread, just recommending that he swap one bit of gear for another, quite possibly equally as unsatisfactory, is not the way to go.

Go and get your money back....!

This makes perfect sense. What you describe is exactly what a hi-fi dealer should be IMO (and how I go about selling pianos) but I've found that dealers with this approach are very few and far between. Most stock a very limited range of equipment and seem perfectly happy to rely on award winners and/or one make set-ups from the old stalwarts.

It is a shame you are no longer in the trade as I think the hi-fi industry's customers need people like you.

 

[davedotco]

I think most of these comments are well wide of the mark.

The OP has spent a four figure sum with a dealer who clearly did not listen to him, produced a sound that was unimpressive.

Why the OP actually bought the system I do not know but it is clearly not what he wanted or what he expected. What the OP needs is guidance as to what he can and can not expect for his money and help in putting a setup together that actually addresses his requirements.

This is best done with a dealer who will listen to you, demonstrate what can and can not be done, explain the futility of trying to get decent sound out of old cassettes and address all the rest of the issues the OP has. Do not take the dealers word on how highly rated the product he wants to sell you is, get him to prove what he says by demonstration.

As for this thread, just recommending that he swap one bit of gear for another, quite possibly equally as unsatisfactory, is not the way to go.

Go and get your money back....!

This makes perfect sense. What you describe is exactly what a hi-fi dealer should be IMO (and how I go about selling pianos) but I've found that dealers with this approach are very few and far between. Most stock a very limited range of equipment and seem perfectly happy to rely on award winners and/or one make set-ups from the old stalwarts.

It is a shame you are no longer in the trade as I think the hi-fi industry's customers need people like you.

The customers thought so too, which is why they came to me for demonstrations and then wanted me to match an online price or lose the sale.

One of the primary reasons I gave it up.