In the new mag in the SOUND ADVICE section someone asked a question about directional cables or wires did the answer given also refer to some HD cables, i have the ixos 458 that has an arrow on it, but people have also said to me this is nonsense there are no diretional hdmi cables, can anyone confirm either way please.
Directional cables
- Thread starter bullitt
- Start date
Highly debatable but general thoughts are keep with the arrow flow as the cable 'beds in' in that direction so although it probably wouldnt 'initially' matter, it will after use.
Some other cables, for example some interconnects actually have the earth removed at one end to try to prevent it effecting the sound further down the line so they MUST be the right way round.
Some other cables, for example some interconnects actually have the earth removed at one end to try to prevent it effecting the sound further down the line so they MUST be the right way round.
But try and remember that anything carrying an AC signal, will have information sent both ways.
Whether a metal can "bed in" is highly suspect. Metals have a lattice structure with free electrons. You don't end up with less or more when you switch off. There may be crystal boundaries in the wires, but these will not change with use. You need to heat the metal to a point at which the atoms can re-align and crystal boundaries can be lost. We're talking of over 700 C for the softest metals. This is the sort of process employed in the production of jet engine fan blades which need to be single crystals to prevent cracking. No amount of use is going to change the crystal structure of a metal in a cable. Though people may like the think it does. Whatever works for you.
Whether a metal can "bed in" is highly suspect. Metals have a lattice structure with free electrons. You don't end up with less or more when you switch off. There may be crystal boundaries in the wires, but these will not change with use. You need to heat the metal to a point at which the atoms can re-align and crystal boundaries can be lost. We're talking of over 700 C for the softest metals. This is the sort of process employed in the production of jet engine fan blades which need to be single crystals to prevent cracking. No amount of use is going to change the crystal structure of a metal in a cable. Though people may like the think it does. Whatever works for you.
I completely see where your coming from Will but at the end of the day thousands of us have found that hifis sound better after the cables 'run in' for a while (Silver in particular sounds 'awful' from new. ANYONE thinks cables cant possibly make a difference id have them change their minds in no time given the chance)
So exactly whats happening I wouldnt like to say. Maybe the equipment itself 'acclimitises' to the new cable?
Also ~ your talking about changing the actual structure of metals (Something I do know a little about as I work in the military aircraft industry). IM talking about the electrons that run through it.
So exactly whats happening I wouldnt like to say. Maybe the equipment itself 'acclimitises' to the new cable?
Also ~ your talking about changing the actual structure of metals (Something I do know a little about as I work in the military aircraft industry). IM talking about the electrons that run through it.
Alienrik, you can apply a potential difference (voltage) to a metal and the electrons will flow by virtue of existing as a field of free electrons but you can't remove them or you'd leave the metal positively charged and nature would rectify that pretty quickly by itself. You can't improve their flow either without affecting the structure of the metal lattice.
Now, your offer to demonstrate is of interest to me. There is nothing more compelling than a demonstration, and I'll put everything I know to one side and allow my ears alone to be the judge. After all, if there is a performance gain to be had, I'd be happy to find out what it is
Now, your offer to demonstrate is of interest to me. There is nothing more compelling than a demonstration, and I'll put everything I know to one side and allow my ears alone to be the judge. After all, if there is a performance gain to be had, I'd be happy to find out what it is
It involves money but sure (Not that im offering of course
). Go buy a COMPLETELY NEW solid silver braided 16 core cable from 'TM3 connections' off ebay
Fit it to your amp
Come on here and tell me how awful the amp sounds
Run it in for 6 months
Come back on here and tell me your a convert
Fit it to your amp
Come on here and tell me how awful the amp sounds
Run it in for 6 months
Come back on here and tell me your a convert
Will Harris:But try and remember that anything carrying an AC signal, will have information sent both ways.
Whether a metal can "bed in" is highly suspect. Metals have a lattice structure with free electrons. You don't end up with less or more when you switch off. There may be crystal boundaries in the wires, but these will not change with use. You need to heat the metal to a point at which the atoms can re-align and crystal boundaries can be lost. We're talking of over 700 C for the softest metals. This is the sort of process employed in the production of jet engine fan blades which need to be single crystals to prevent cracking. No amount of use is going to change the crystal structure of a metal in a cable. Though people may like the think it does. Whatever works for you.
So in simple terms can you explain why do some HDMI cables have an arrow indicating directional flow ?
Whether a metal can "bed in" is highly suspect. Metals have a lattice structure with free electrons. You don't end up with less or more when you switch off. There may be crystal boundaries in the wires, but these will not change with use. You need to heat the metal to a point at which the atoms can re-align and crystal boundaries can be lost. We're talking of over 700 C for the softest metals. This is the sort of process employed in the production of jet engine fan blades which need to be single crystals to prevent cracking. No amount of use is going to change the crystal structure of a metal in a cable. Though people may like the think it does. Whatever works for you.
So in simple terms can you explain why do some HDMI cables have an arrow indicating directional flow ?
aliEnRIK:
I completely see where your coming from Will but at the end of the day thousands of us have found that hifis sound better after the cables 'run in' for a while (Silver in particular sounds 'awful' from new. ANYONE thinks cables cant possibly make a difference id have them change their minds in no time given the chance)
So exactly whats happening I wouldnt like to say. Maybe the equipment itself 'acclimitises' to the new cable?
i feel i'm pointing out the obvious here.... but is it not just our perception of the sound that changes? us getting used to the new sound? is it not a case of our minds 'running in' to the difference we hear?
I completely see where your coming from Will but at the end of the day thousands of us have found that hifis sound better after the cables 'run in' for a while (Silver in particular sounds 'awful' from new. ANYONE thinks cables cant possibly make a difference id have them change their minds in no time given the chance)
So exactly whats happening I wouldnt like to say. Maybe the equipment itself 'acclimitises' to the new cable?
i feel i'm pointing out the obvious here.... but is it not just our perception of the sound that changes? us getting used to the new sound? is it not a case of our minds 'running in' to the difference we hear?
bullitt:Will Harris:But try and remember that anything carrying an AC signal, will have information sent both ways.
Whether a metal can "bed in" is highly suspect. Metals have a lattice structure with free electrons. You don't end up with less or more when you switch off. There may be crystal boundaries in the wires, but these will not change with use. You need to heat the metal to a point at which the atoms can re-align and crystal boundaries can be lost. We're talking of over 700 C for the softest metals. This is the sort of process employed in the production of jet engine fan blades which need to be single crystals to prevent cracking. No amount of use is going to change the crystal structure of a metal in a cable. Though people may like the think it does. Whatever works for you.
So in simple terms can you explain why do some HDMI cables have an arrow indicating directional flow ?
Marketing.
Whether a metal can "bed in" is highly suspect. Metals have a lattice structure with free electrons. You don't end up with less or more when you switch off. There may be crystal boundaries in the wires, but these will not change with use. You need to heat the metal to a point at which the atoms can re-align and crystal boundaries can be lost. We're talking of over 700 C for the softest metals. This is the sort of process employed in the production of jet engine fan blades which need to be single crystals to prevent cracking. No amount of use is going to change the crystal structure of a metal in a cable. Though people may like the think it does. Whatever works for you.
So in simple terms can you explain why do some HDMI cables have an arrow indicating directional flow ?
Marketing.
Will Harris:bullitt:Will Harris:But try and remember that anything carrying an AC signal, will have information sent both ways. Whether a metal can "bed in" is highly suspect. Metals have a lattice structure with free electrons. You don't end up with less or more when you switch off. There may be crystal boundaries in the wires, but these will not change with use. You need to heat the metal to a point at which the atoms can re-align and crystal boundaries can be lost. We're talking of over 700 C for the softest metals. This is the sort of process employed in the production of jet engine fan blades which need to be single crystals to prevent cracking. No amount of use is going to change the crystal structure of a metal in a cable. Though people may like the think it does. Whatever works for you. So in simple terms can you explain why do some HDMI cables have an arrow indicating directional flow ? Marketing.
To Answer the Question Yes. All wire are directional.
Weather they are marked or not. It has to do with the process that they are made. Second question is their an audiable differance I don't know.
To Answer the Question Yes. All wire are directional.
Weather they are marked or not. It has to do with the process that they are made. Second question is their an audiable differance I don't know.
basshead:aliEnRIK:
I completely see where your coming from Will but at the end of the day thousands of us have found that hifis sound better after the cables 'run in' for a while (Silver in particular sounds 'awful' from new. ANYONE thinks cables cant possibly make a difference id have them change their minds in no time given the chance)
So exactly whats happening I wouldnt like to say. Maybe the equipment itself 'acclimitises' to the new cable?
i feel i'm pointing out the obvious here.... but is it not just our perception of the sound that changes? us getting used to the new sound? is it not a case of our minds 'running in' to the difference we hear?
Everyone who comments clearly hasnt actually tried them out. Stick one on your amp and hear how BAD it is. If it sounded good youd hear it surely (Certainly within a few hours even if the ears are adjusting)
Im talking about a good week or 2 at LEAST of awful sounding music.
I completely see where your coming from Will but at the end of the day thousands of us have found that hifis sound better after the cables 'run in' for a while (Silver in particular sounds 'awful' from new. ANYONE thinks cables cant possibly make a difference id have them change their minds in no time given the chance)
So exactly whats happening I wouldnt like to say. Maybe the equipment itself 'acclimitises' to the new cable?
i feel i'm pointing out the obvious here.... but is it not just our perception of the sound that changes? us getting used to the new sound? is it not a case of our minds 'running in' to the difference we hear?
Everyone who comments clearly hasnt actually tried them out. Stick one on your amp and hear how BAD it is. If it sounded good youd hear it surely (Certainly within a few hours even if the ears are adjusting)
Im talking about a good week or 2 at LEAST of awful sounding music.
"... but at the end of the day thousands of us have found that hifis sound better after the cables 'run in' for a while..."
Psycoacoustics, plain and simple. You hear what you want to hear and it's a way for you to rationalize your purchase of special cables.
Been there, done that. I grew up and realized the follies of my ways.
EmKay
Psycoacoustics, plain and simple. You hear what you want to hear and it's a way for you to rationalize your purchase of special cables.
Been there, done that. I grew up and realized the follies of my ways.
EmKay
professorhat
Well-known member
I am not disputing the fact that you are hearing a differance in cables. You can.
What was asked is, can you hear a differance in the direction of the cable! I have not tried to turn my cables around; but i would guess that their would not be any noticable affect to the sound. You would be able to hear a noticeable affect to the quality of the wires and inductance of the cables etc..but again you are not changeing these numbers by turning the cable around.
What was asked is, can you hear a differance in the direction of the cable! I have not tried to turn my cables around; but i would guess that their would not be any noticable affect to the sound. You would be able to hear a noticeable affect to the quality of the wires and inductance of the cables etc..but again you are not changeing these numbers by turning the cable around.
EmKay:
"... but at the end of the day thousands of us have found that hifis sound better after the cables 'run in' for a while..."
Psycoacoustics, plain and simple. You hear what you want to hear and it's a way for you to rationalize your purchase of special cables.
Been there, done that. I grew up and realized the follies of my ways.
EmKay
actually. Like anyone who bought their first NEW silver cable. I was expecting a BEAUTIFUL sound. So why did it sound so bad?
Are you ACTUALLY suggesting it takes MONTHS for my ears to adjust?
No ~ my ears work just fine cheers
"... but at the end of the day thousands of us have found that hifis sound better after the cables 'run in' for a while..."
Psycoacoustics, plain and simple. You hear what you want to hear and it's a way for you to rationalize your purchase of special cables.
Been there, done that. I grew up and realized the follies of my ways.
EmKay
actually. Like anyone who bought their first NEW silver cable. I was expecting a BEAUTIFUL sound. So why did it sound so bad?
Are you ACTUALLY suggesting it takes MONTHS for my ears to adjust?
No ~ my ears work just fine cheers
Actually, there's probably many thousands more people who hear no difference after days, months years even decades. However, they're unlikely to post topics on forums with riveting titles like "To-day I heard no difference" or "No, still sounds the same."
Actually, I turned around my front speaker cables last night and was astonished by how exactly the same everything sounded.
That's like saying a network cable will transfer data faster and with less errors in one direction rather than another. Why then are there not PC users in every office in the world being told to switch their network cables around when they log support calls that their internet connection is running slow?
That's like saying a network cable will transfer data faster and with less errors in one direction rather than another. Why then are there not PC users in every office in the world being told to switch their network cables around when they log support calls that their internet connection is running slow?
The_Lhc
Well-known member
Well it is like that, apart from network being genuinely two way data movement, unlike HDMI, at least until 1.4 comes out at which point two way data transfer becomes available and HDMI cables should stop being directional, logically.
As I have said in a previous item on the same subject I recently used as a temporary installation some house wiring cable while I re-set out my silver speaker cable and I could not tell the difference on my Quad equipment; that all we ever used in times past.
But if you want to pay for expensive cable and you think it does improve your sound quality then you have chosen the right cables.
As for bedding in I would take that with a pinch of salt but you do need a good quality cable to transmit HD over a HDMI cable not a piece of bell wire.
But if you want to pay for expensive cable and you think it does improve your sound quality then you have chosen the right cables.
As for bedding in I would take that with a pinch of salt but you do need a good quality cable to transmit HD over a HDMI cable not a piece of bell wire.
professorhat
Well-known member
Acciesboy:Actually, I turned around my front speaker cables last night and was astonished by how exactly the same everything sounded.
That's like saying a network cable will transfer data faster and with less errors in one direction rather than another. Why then are there not PC users in every office in the world being told to switch their network cables around when they log support calls that their internet connection is running slow?
To be fair, it's really not.
That's like saying a network cable will transfer data faster and with less errors in one direction rather than another. Why then are there not PC users in every office in the world being told to switch their network cables around when they log support calls that their internet connection is running slow?
To be fair, it's really not.
professorhat
Well-known member
Don't tell me reversing your network cable made it faster - goodness, I must implement it in my company, I'll save them a fortune!
Sorry this topic has caused heated debate, i only asked the question because i was told a directional hdmi cable was nonesense, just wanted to confirm one way or the other and im still none the wiser.
The thing about bedding in wires, wouldn't wires be better when new rather months or years later,as i thought you were suppose to trim your speaker wires every so often, if they had to bed in why would you need to do this ? unless its a bad connection ect..
The thing about bedding in wires, wouldn't wires be better when new rather months or years later,as i thought you were suppose to trim your speaker wires every so often, if they had to bed in why would you need to do this ? unless its a bad connection ect..
bullitt:Sorry this topic has caused heated debate, i only asked the question because i was told a directional hdmi cable was nonesense, just wanted to confirm one way or the other and im still none the wiser.
The thing about bedding in wires, wouldn't wires be better when new rather months or years later,as i thought you were suppose to trim your speaker wires every so often, if they had to bed in why would you need to do this ? unless its a bad connection ect..
Here's a quote I found from Chord.
Our research shows that this is not only dependent on the equipment the cable is used with but also on the type of music predominantly played. Should you wish to speed the burn in time appreciably, hard-core trance will produce quicker results than choral music!
http://www.chord.co.uk/chordweb/speaker_cable_tech.htm
The thing about bedding in wires, wouldn't wires be better when new rather months or years later,as i thought you were suppose to trim your speaker wires every so often, if they had to bed in why would you need to do this ? unless its a bad connection ect..
Here's a quote I found from Chord.
Our research shows that this is not only dependent on the equipment the cable is used with but also on the type of music predominantly played. Should you wish to speed the burn in time appreciably, hard-core trance will produce quicker results than choral music!
http://www.chord.co.uk/chordweb/speaker_cable_tech.htm
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