professorhat
Well-known member
Have a look at the Sound Advice section of the new issue, bullitt - there's a question on directionality of cables and it's responded to by Tom in the WHF team.
ÿ
ÿ
Del Smith:
Here's a quote I found from Chord.
Our research shows that this is not only dependent on the equipment the cable is used with but also on the type of music predominantly played. Should you wish to speed the burn in time appreciably, hard-core trance will produce quicker results than choral music!
http://www.chord.co.uk/chordweb/speaker_cable_tech.htm
Well done dell ~
" Speaker cables,
like interconnects, require some running in time and it is very difficult
to be precise about how long this actually is. Our research shows that
this is not only dependent on the equipment the cable is used with but
also on the type of music predominantly played. Should you wish to speed
the burn in time appreciably, hard-core trance will produce quicker results
than choral music! It would be fair to speculate that this has something
to do with the amount of high frequency signal passing along the cable.
As a general rule and based on the average time spent listening to a system,
three to four weeks is enough for 90% of the changes that are going to
occur to do so. However, smaller more subtle changes can be noticed over
several months."
So it seems to me that ~
1 ~ theres a lot of people with hifis and BAD hearing. Unable to determine changes in the quality of the music being played.
2 ~ a lot of people who comment who havnt even TRIED what I said (Fitting a BRAND new silver mains chord to their amp). If you havnt tried, how CAN you possibly comment?
Here's a quote I found from Chord.
Our research shows that this is not only dependent on the equipment the cable is used with but also on the type of music predominantly played. Should you wish to speed the burn in time appreciably, hard-core trance will produce quicker results than choral music!
http://www.chord.co.uk/chordweb/speaker_cable_tech.htm
Well done dell ~
" Speaker cables,
like interconnects, require some running in time and it is very difficult
to be precise about how long this actually is. Our research shows that
this is not only dependent on the equipment the cable is used with but
also on the type of music predominantly played. Should you wish to speed
the burn in time appreciably, hard-core trance will produce quicker results
than choral music! It would be fair to speculate that this has something
to do with the amount of high frequency signal passing along the cable.
As a general rule and based on the average time spent listening to a system,
three to four weeks is enough for 90% of the changes that are going to
occur to do so. However, smaller more subtle changes can be noticed over
several months."
So it seems to me that ~
1 ~ theres a lot of people with hifis and BAD hearing. Unable to determine changes in the quality of the music being played.
2 ~ a lot of people who comment who havnt even TRIED what I said (Fitting a BRAND new silver mains chord to their amp). If you havnt tried, how CAN you possibly comment?
well, chord would say that wouldnt they. I wouldnt hold that up as bomb proof. LOL
I could be that the sound changes quite a lot with the new cable. some people dont like it. then their brains get used to it. Chord might not want to say that, as its admitting we can get used to almost anything, and dont need them at all. And that not everyone will like the sound of the new cable. so they start this takes months to run in caper. Could be emperors new clothes scenario.................... well if u dont like it, it must be you, you havent 'bedded in the cables' properly. you have bad ears...................
I could be that the sound changes quite a lot with the new cable. some people dont like it. then their brains get used to it. Chord might not want to say that, as its admitting we can get used to almost anything, and dont need them at all. And that not everyone will like the sound of the new cable. so they start this takes months to run in caper. Could be emperors new clothes scenario.................... well if u dont like it, it must be you, you havent 'bedded in the cables' properly. you have bad ears...................
method man:
well, chord would say that wouldnt they. I wouldnt hold that up as bomb proof. LOL
I could be that the sound changes quite a lot with the new cable. some people dont like it. then their brains get used to it. Chord might not want to say that, as its admitting we can get used to almost anything, and dont need them at all. And that not everyone will like the sound of the new cable. so they start this takes months to run in caper. Could be emperors new clothes scenario.................... well if u dont like it, it must be you, you havent 'bedded in the cables' properly. you have bad ears...................
At last. Another sensible post. Great methodology!
One must bed an emporer in too, that way his clothes will fit better. Personally, I wouldn't want the job. Not into bedding-in emperors.
It occures to me that the cable "believers" are really akin to a new religious group. Faith is a requirement for membership. Faith is rewarded as in many organised religions, with fellowship, a sense of belonging, oh and the equivalent of a tithe. 10% of your salary must be given to the cable companies in order to remain a believer. More faith will add value to your tithe and make it seem like money even better spent. There's nothing so efficient as religion, for relieving you of your money. And like all cults, you're either 100% in or 100% out. Cults (as distinct from religions) don't tolerate fence sitters. Perhaps Cable Believers (directional and mains) are really cult members with a hint of the religious about them.
No more upgrades. Mine sounds good enough now
What I'm discovering, the new cult of Apple, is the Remote ap for the iPhone. I can now stream music to my amp and control on my iPhone. How awesome is that. Wi-Fi. So no directional issues to deal with there. The air is not getting polarised around me! Oh no. Hehehe.
Hmmmmmmmmmm. ;-)
well, chord would say that wouldnt they. I wouldnt hold that up as bomb proof. LOL
I could be that the sound changes quite a lot with the new cable. some people dont like it. then their brains get used to it. Chord might not want to say that, as its admitting we can get used to almost anything, and dont need them at all. And that not everyone will like the sound of the new cable. so they start this takes months to run in caper. Could be emperors new clothes scenario.................... well if u dont like it, it must be you, you havent 'bedded in the cables' properly. you have bad ears...................
At last. Another sensible post. Great methodology!
One must bed an emporer in too, that way his clothes will fit better. Personally, I wouldn't want the job. Not into bedding-in emperors.
It occures to me that the cable "believers" are really akin to a new religious group. Faith is a requirement for membership. Faith is rewarded as in many organised religions, with fellowship, a sense of belonging, oh and the equivalent of a tithe. 10% of your salary must be given to the cable companies in order to remain a believer. More faith will add value to your tithe and make it seem like money even better spent. There's nothing so efficient as religion, for relieving you of your money. And like all cults, you're either 100% in or 100% out. Cults (as distinct from religions) don't tolerate fence sitters. Perhaps Cable Believers (directional and mains) are really cult members with a hint of the religious about them.
No more upgrades. Mine sounds good enough now
What I'm discovering, the new cult of Apple, is the Remote ap for the iPhone. I can now stream music to my amp and control on my iPhone. How awesome is that. Wi-Fi. So no directional issues to deal with there. The air is not getting polarised around me! Oh no. Hehehe.Hmmmmmmmmmm. ;-)
Will Harris:I can now stream music to my amp and control on my iPhone. How awesome is that. Wi-Fi. So no directional issues to deal with there. The air is not getting polarised around me! Oh no. Hehehe. Hmmmmmmmmmm. ;-)
Do you have a window open and if so, what way is the breeze blowing? I read somewhere that a slight headwind increases the timing and attack of wirelessly streamed music, and a tailwind briings out the bass. Crosswinds can sound a bit bright sometimes...
Don't you just love this audiophile nonsense? Directional cables indeed...
Do you have a window open and if so, what way is the breeze blowing? I read somewhere that a slight headwind increases the timing and attack of wirelessly streamed music, and a tailwind briings out the bass. Crosswinds can sound a bit bright sometimes...
Don't you just love this audiophile nonsense? Directional cables indeed...
Acciesboy:
Will Harris:I can now stream music to my amp and control on my iPhone. How awesome is that. Wi-Fi. So no directional issues to deal with there. The air is not getting polarised around me! Oh no. Hehehe. Hmmmmmmmmmm. ;-)
Do you have a window open and if so, what way is the breeze blowing? I read somewhere that a slight headwind increases the timing and attack of wirelessly streamed music, and a tailwind briings out the bass. Crosswinds can sound a bit bright sometimes...
Don't you just love this audiophile nonsense? Directional cables indeed...
I thought crosswind was something you got after a curry. :-S
Is it me, or are there more and more cable threads/fights than ever on What Hi-Fi's forums these days? Oneday, someone independant (no magazine or products to sell) will test the whole cable theory and release some scientific results. I'd have thought a University would be a good place to start. Royal College of Music perhaps. Could team up with a recording / mastering studio. Just have to find a way to keep it unbiased. But even then, would non-believers from either camp, ever accept what may be found? Unlikely. Hence why it's a religion. It doesn't require proof. In fact it positively rejects proof in favour of faith.
Will Harris:I can now stream music to my amp and control on my iPhone. How awesome is that. Wi-Fi. So no directional issues to deal with there. The air is not getting polarised around me! Oh no. Hehehe. Hmmmmmmmmmm. ;-)
Do you have a window open and if so, what way is the breeze blowing? I read somewhere that a slight headwind increases the timing and attack of wirelessly streamed music, and a tailwind briings out the bass. Crosswinds can sound a bit bright sometimes...
Don't you just love this audiophile nonsense? Directional cables indeed...
I thought crosswind was something you got after a curry. :-S
Is it me, or are there more and more cable threads/fights than ever on What Hi-Fi's forums these days? Oneday, someone independant (no magazine or products to sell) will test the whole cable theory and release some scientific results. I'd have thought a University would be a good place to start. Royal College of Music perhaps. Could team up with a recording / mastering studio. Just have to find a way to keep it unbiased. But even then, would non-believers from either camp, ever accept what may be found? Unlikely. Hence why it's a religion. It doesn't require proof. In fact it positively rejects proof in favour of faith.
professorhat
Well-known member
Bah, cables are a myth, just like unicorns, the bogey man and Eskimos.
On a more serious note, heated debate or not, it is nice to see passionate individuals engaging in an debate about something we all care about. Quite engrossing to read.
On a more serious note, heated debate or not, it is nice to see passionate individuals engaging in an debate about something we all care about. Quite engrossing to read.
professorhat:
Have a look at the Sound Advice section of the new issue, bullitt - there's a question on directionality of cables and it's responded to by Tom in the WHF team.
ÿ
Thanks pro, but its this question in the mag im refering to in this thread that i started, i wasn't sure if the answer was also refering to HDMI cables.
Thanks anyway.
Also this might seem daft but would cables be classed as components, because when ever you buy something new you can always smell the newness, so is the principle the same with cables ?if im talking rubbish i apologise lol
Have a look at the Sound Advice section of the new issue, bullitt - there's a question on directionality of cables and it's responded to by Tom in the WHF team.
ÿ
Thanks pro, but its this question in the mag im refering to in this thread that i started, i wasn't sure if the answer was also refering to HDMI cables.
Thanks anyway.
Also this might seem daft but would cables be classed as components, because when ever you buy something new you can always smell the newness, so is the principle the same with cables ?if im talking rubbish i apologise lol
Will Harris:method man:
well, chord would say that wouldnt they. I wouldnt hold that up as bomb proof. LOL
I could be that the sound changes quite a lot with the new cable. some people dont like it. then their brains get used to it. Chord might not want to say that, as its admitting we can get used to almost anything, and dont need them at all. And that not everyone will like the sound of the new cable. so they start this takes months to run in caper. Could be emperors new clothes scenario.................... well if u dont like it, it must be you, you havent 'bedded in the cables' properly. you have bad ears...................
At last. Another sensible post. Great methodology!
One must bed an emporer in too, that way his clothes will fit better. Personally, I wouldn't want the job. Not into bedding-in emperors.
It occures to me that the cable "believers" are really akin to a new religious group. Faith is a requirement for membership. Faith is rewarded as in many organised religions, with fellowship, a sense of belonging, oh and the equivalent of a tithe. 10% of your salary must be given to the cable companies in order to remain a believer. More faith will add value to your tithe and make it seem like money even better spent. There's nothing so efficient as religion, for relieving you of your money. And like all cults, you're either 100% in or 100% out. Cults (as distinct from religions) don't tolerate fence sitters. Perhaps Cable Believers (directional and mains) are really cult members with a hint of the religious about them.
No more upgrades. Mine sounds good enough now What I'm discovering, the new cult of Apple, is the Remote ap for the iPhone. I can now stream music to my amp and control on my iPhone. How awesome is that. Wi-Fi. So no directional issues to deal with there. The air is not getting polarised around me! Oh no. Hehehe.
Hmmmmmmmmmm. ;-)
Can I just ask where you stand on 'cables' in general? I find it intriguing that you have both 'chord' and 'marks' cables in your setup
As for all this religion, I cant even answer such a statement......
May I ask HOW you chose the equipment you have? Did you HEAR it, or did you MEASUREABLY check it somehow first? Or was it bought for some other reason?
Why did you buy the Samsung? Surely you didnt just rely on a review did you? Or did you actually see the picture with your own eyes first?
well, chord would say that wouldnt they. I wouldnt hold that up as bomb proof. LOL
I could be that the sound changes quite a lot with the new cable. some people dont like it. then their brains get used to it. Chord might not want to say that, as its admitting we can get used to almost anything, and dont need them at all. And that not everyone will like the sound of the new cable. so they start this takes months to run in caper. Could be emperors new clothes scenario.................... well if u dont like it, it must be you, you havent 'bedded in the cables' properly. you have bad ears...................
At last. Another sensible post. Great methodology!
One must bed an emporer in too, that way his clothes will fit better. Personally, I wouldn't want the job. Not into bedding-in emperors.
It occures to me that the cable "believers" are really akin to a new religious group. Faith is a requirement for membership. Faith is rewarded as in many organised religions, with fellowship, a sense of belonging, oh and the equivalent of a tithe. 10% of your salary must be given to the cable companies in order to remain a believer. More faith will add value to your tithe and make it seem like money even better spent. There's nothing so efficient as religion, for relieving you of your money. And like all cults, you're either 100% in or 100% out. Cults (as distinct from religions) don't tolerate fence sitters. Perhaps Cable Believers (directional and mains) are really cult members with a hint of the religious about them.
No more upgrades. Mine sounds good enough now
What I'm discovering, the new cult of Apple, is the Remote ap for the iPhone. I can now stream music to my amp and control on my iPhone. How awesome is that. Wi-Fi. So no directional issues to deal with there. The air is not getting polarised around me! Oh no. Hehehe.Hmmmmmmmmmm. ;-)
Can I just ask where you stand on 'cables' in general? I find it intriguing that you have both 'chord' and 'marks' cables in your setup
As for all this religion, I cant even answer such a statement......
May I ask HOW you chose the equipment you have? Did you HEAR it, or did you MEASUREABLY check it somehow first? Or was it bought for some other reason?
Why did you buy the Samsung? Surely you didnt just rely on a review did you? Or did you actually see the picture with your own eyes first?
aliEnRIK:
Will Harris:method man:
well, chord would say that wouldnt they. I wouldnt hold that up as bomb proof. LOL
I could be that the sound changes quite a lot with the new cable. some people dont like it. then their brains get used to it. Chord might not want to say that, as its admitting we can get used to almost anything, and dont need them at all. And that not everyone will like the sound of the new cable. so they start this takes months to run in caper. Could be emperors new clothes scenario.................... well if u dont like it, it must be you, you havent 'bedded in the cables' properly. you have bad ears...................
At last. Another sensible post. Great methodology!
One must bed an emporer in too, that way his clothes will fit better. Personally, I wouldn't want the job. Not into bedding-in emperors.
It occures to me that the cable "believers" are really akin to a new religious group. Faith is a requirement for membership. Faith is rewarded as in many organised religions, with fellowship, a sense of belonging, oh and the equivalent of a tithe. 10% of your salary must be given to the cable companies in order to remain a believer. More faith will add value to your tithe and make it seem like money even better spent. There's nothing so efficient as religion, for relieving you of your money. And like all cults, you're either 100% in or 100% out. Cults (as distinct from religions) don't tolerate fence sitters. Perhaps Cable Believers (directional and mains) are really cult members with a hint of the religious about them.
No more upgrades. Mine sounds good enough now What I'm discovering, the new cult of Apple, is the Remote ap for the iPhone. I can now stream music to my amp and control on my iPhone. How awesome is that. Wi-Fi. So no directional issues to deal with there. The air is not getting polarised around me! Oh no. Hehehe.
Hmmmmmmmmmm. ;-)
Can I just ask where you stand on 'cables' in general? I find it intriguing that you have both 'chord' and 'marks' cables in your setup
As for all this religion, I cant even answer such a statement......
May I ask HOW you chose the equipment you have? Did you HEAR it, or did you MEASUREABLY check it somehow first? Or was it bought for some other reason?
Why did you buy the Samsung? Surely you didnt just rely on a review did you? Or did you actually see the picture with your own eyes first?
No perfect answer to some of this.
I have Mark Grant cables and Chord cables and they both do the same job. Equally well. They both make excellent products.
The screen I bought because I liked it and because my Pioneer 4270XD was too small. The Samsung was the size I wanted and won the group test. And I got it for about £950. All in all I'm still incredibly happy with it. Even if I'm pining after a KRP500A. But that's not going to happen. The image at 720p is more than excellent enough. It's the sound I was really after. And the Arcam amp and Dali speakers deliver in spades.
I think there is a lot of the proverbial spouted. That's my stance on cables. They should be well made, shielded and of a good quality of materials so they can do their job well without losses or interference. If everything sent in at one end arrived out of the other end, that's all I'm after. I don't care if it could cope with a moon landing as well. I want what goes in to come out and that's all. That's where I stand. I think most well made cables "should" be able to do this. At £50 for a 2m HDMI cable if it can't do this, it has been engineered to fail. Manufacturers have no excuse. I hate this money based system, where you have to engineer a product with inbuilt design flaws so you can also sell one without them for more. There should be one design of HDMI cable from Chord. It should be the cable that works best, available in different lengths and that's the end of it. But that would ruin their business. They are in the upgrade business, not the consumers best interest. That's why I like Mark Grant. His stuff just works. It doesn't cost a bomb and he's not interested in bringing out, lesser models on the cheap. Probably why he doesn't get much traction in mags like WHF. Where would all the fun be, if you were told, buy this and then go home and stop worrying about cables because you've done what you needed to do. No upgrade required. Oh. Well, that's the cable debate done with. Not good for mags that like to report on the latest and greatest from Monster, Chord, QED, etc etc. The manufacturers must be laughing at how we follow their sales patter with such pathetic devotion. Never questioning whether we're being had.
There. That's my stance. I trained as an engineer and an economist. So I know how things work and how to manipulate to sell them! Too much of the later happens in hi-fi and most other forms of consumer goods.
Will Harris:method man:
well, chord would say that wouldnt they. I wouldnt hold that up as bomb proof. LOL
I could be that the sound changes quite a lot with the new cable. some people dont like it. then their brains get used to it. Chord might not want to say that, as its admitting we can get used to almost anything, and dont need them at all. And that not everyone will like the sound of the new cable. so they start this takes months to run in caper. Could be emperors new clothes scenario.................... well if u dont like it, it must be you, you havent 'bedded in the cables' properly. you have bad ears...................
At last. Another sensible post. Great methodology!
One must bed an emporer in too, that way his clothes will fit better. Personally, I wouldn't want the job. Not into bedding-in emperors.
It occures to me that the cable "believers" are really akin to a new religious group. Faith is a requirement for membership. Faith is rewarded as in many organised religions, with fellowship, a sense of belonging, oh and the equivalent of a tithe. 10% of your salary must be given to the cable companies in order to remain a believer. More faith will add value to your tithe and make it seem like money even better spent. There's nothing so efficient as religion, for relieving you of your money. And like all cults, you're either 100% in or 100% out. Cults (as distinct from religions) don't tolerate fence sitters. Perhaps Cable Believers (directional and mains) are really cult members with a hint of the religious about them.
No more upgrades. Mine sounds good enough now
What I'm discovering, the new cult of Apple, is the Remote ap for the iPhone. I can now stream music to my amp and control on my iPhone. How awesome is that. Wi-Fi. So no directional issues to deal with there. The air is not getting polarised around me! Oh no. Hehehe.Hmmmmmmmmmm. ;-)
Can I just ask where you stand on 'cables' in general? I find it intriguing that you have both 'chord' and 'marks' cables in your setup
As for all this religion, I cant even answer such a statement......
May I ask HOW you chose the equipment you have? Did you HEAR it, or did you MEASUREABLY check it somehow first? Or was it bought for some other reason?
Why did you buy the Samsung? Surely you didnt just rely on a review did you? Or did you actually see the picture with your own eyes first?
No perfect answer to some of this.
I have Mark Grant cables and Chord cables and they both do the same job. Equally well. They both make excellent products.
The screen I bought because I liked it and because my Pioneer 4270XD was too small. The Samsung was the size I wanted and won the group test. And I got it for about £950. All in all I'm still incredibly happy with it. Even if I'm pining after a KRP500A. But that's not going to happen. The image at 720p is more than excellent enough. It's the sound I was really after. And the Arcam amp and Dali speakers deliver in spades.
I think there is a lot of the proverbial spouted. That's my stance on cables. They should be well made, shielded and of a good quality of materials so they can do their job well without losses or interference. If everything sent in at one end arrived out of the other end, that's all I'm after. I don't care if it could cope with a moon landing as well. I want what goes in to come out and that's all. That's where I stand. I think most well made cables "should" be able to do this. At £50 for a 2m HDMI cable if it can't do this, it has been engineered to fail. Manufacturers have no excuse. I hate this money based system, where you have to engineer a product with inbuilt design flaws so you can also sell one without them for more. There should be one design of HDMI cable from Chord. It should be the cable that works best, available in different lengths and that's the end of it. But that would ruin their business. They are in the upgrade business, not the consumers best interest. That's why I like Mark Grant. His stuff just works. It doesn't cost a bomb and he's not interested in bringing out, lesser models on the cheap. Probably why he doesn't get much traction in mags like WHF. Where would all the fun be, if you were told, buy this and then go home and stop worrying about cables because you've done what you needed to do. No upgrade required. Oh. Well, that's the cable debate done with. Not good for mags that like to report on the latest and greatest from Monster, Chord, QED, etc etc. The manufacturers must be laughing at how we follow their sales patter with such pathetic devotion. Never questioning whether we're being had.
There. That's my stance. I trained as an engineer and an economist. So I know how things work and how to manipulate to sell them! Too much of the later happens in hi-fi and most other forms of consumer goods.
So to sum up Will. You havnt MEASURED or BLIND TESTED any of you equipment. You simply 'believe' ~ is that correct? You probably tested the hifi with your EARS same as 99.99999% of everyone else. Clearly YOU must trust YOUR eyes and ears to some degree so why question mine?
Well I use my eyes and ears. I dont believe in ANYTHING I read (Including BS blurb from cable manufacturers and even my bosses at work), I just take note and maybe test for myself. I personally didnt believe in cables at ALL until I tested them for myself (Same as all cable sceptics). If I find what they say IS true (ie 'burn in, which ive found MANY MANY times over), then clearly I will believe it. But NOT before.......
The fact youve gone and put chord and mark cables on your system at all clearly points to you DO have some thoughts that cables do vary and will give different audio results.
Way I see it ~ you cant comment on what you havnt tried and I HAVE tried a lot (Inclusing mains cables which can and DO make quite a change in some cases)
Ive also upgraded all my cables far beyond what most people would (But at a fraction of the cost of 'branded' cables). So ive had plenty of time to test them myself.
Well I use my eyes and ears. I dont believe in ANYTHING I read (Including BS blurb from cable manufacturers and even my bosses at work), I just take note and maybe test for myself. I personally didnt believe in cables at ALL until I tested them for myself (Same as all cable sceptics). If I find what they say IS true (ie 'burn in, which ive found MANY MANY times over), then clearly I will believe it. But NOT before.......
The fact youve gone and put chord and mark cables on your system at all clearly points to you DO have some thoughts that cables do vary and will give different audio results.
Way I see it ~ you cant comment on what you havnt tried and I HAVE tried a lot (Inclusing mains cables which can and DO make quite a change in some cases)
Ive also upgraded all my cables far beyond what most people would (But at a fraction of the cost of 'branded' cables). So ive had plenty of time to test them myself.
Alienrik, I'm glad you're happy with the results you've found. I think I've made my position clear on what I think. Take care mate.
Will Harris:That's why I like Mark Grant. His stuff just works. It doesn't cost a bomb and he's not interested in bringing out, lesser models on the cheap. Probably why he doesn't get much traction in mags like WHF. Where would all the fun be, if you were told, buy this and then go home and stop worrying about cables because you've done what you needed to do. No upgrade required. Oh. Well, that's the cable debate done with. Not good for mags that like to report on the latest and greatest from Monster, Chord, QED, etc etc.
The reason we report on the new products from the brands you mention is simply that they send us information on those products. To my knowledge we have never had a press release from the brand you favour - if we did, it would be reported on the news pages of this site.
So that's the reason for the lack of 'traction', and while you may say that reflects the big slick PR machines the likes of Monster, Chord and QED can deploy, it doesn't take much to put together a one-page press release and a digital picture, and get your products more widely known...
The reason we report on the new products from the brands you mention is simply that they send us information on those products. To my knowledge we have never had a press release from the brand you favour - if we did, it would be reported on the news pages of this site.
So that's the reason for the lack of 'traction', and while you may say that reflects the big slick PR machines the likes of Monster, Chord and QED can deploy, it doesn't take much to put together a one-page press release and a digital picture, and get your products more widely known...
Much, indeed, as Darren Smith from Clearer Audio has done (and he comes on here and answers questions, too....)
Andrew Everard:
Will Harris:That's why I like Mark Grant. His stuff just works. It doesn't cost a bomb and he's not interested in bringing out, lesser models on the cheap. Probably why he doesn't get much traction in mags like WHF. Where would all the fun be, if you were told, buy this and then go home and stop worrying about cables because you've done what you needed to do. No upgrade required. Oh. Well, that's the cable debate done with. Not good for mags that like to report on the latest and greatest from Monster, Chord, QED, etc etc.
The reason we report on the new products from the brands you mention is simply that they send us information on those products. To my knowledge we have never had a press release from the brand you favour - if we did, it would be reported on the news pages of this site.
So that's the reason for the lack of 'traction', and while you may say that reflects the big slick PR machines the likes of Monster, Chord and QED can deploy, it doesn't take much to put together a one-page press release and a digital picture, and get your products more widely known...
Perfectly fair point. If no press releases are forthcoming, not much for you to work with. Nothing to prevent a bit of investigative journalism if you're keen! ;-)
Doesn't address the point that as an independent magazine, not owned by any one manufacturer there is nothing to stop you stating that above a certain cable quality point, any further expenditure on preserving the 1s and 0s is futile as they are all arriving intact anyway. If of course they are. You are after all a consumer magazine not a manufacturers magazine. I'd expect you to be able to cut through the fluff of a press release to see whether there is any truth behind the latest acronym or trademark. After all, HDMI is digital. There's only so far you can go before you've accurately transmitted the (defined) signal. You can't selectively add colour, contrast or bass depth to a digital signal. You either send the data intact, or you have losses occurring to a greater or lesser degree. In some ways it makes most sense to test a digital cable in terms of %. A 99.99999% cable or a 7nines, etc etc. This is a terminology used to describe annual downtime in servers. Resilience. Digital interconnects are measurable and I'd expect What Hi-Fi to take the consumers side on sifting out the bull. Wouldn't you?
Will Harris:That's why I like Mark Grant. His stuff just works. It doesn't cost a bomb and he's not interested in bringing out, lesser models on the cheap. Probably why he doesn't get much traction in mags like WHF. Where would all the fun be, if you were told, buy this and then go home and stop worrying about cables because you've done what you needed to do. No upgrade required. Oh. Well, that's the cable debate done with. Not good for mags that like to report on the latest and greatest from Monster, Chord, QED, etc etc.
The reason we report on the new products from the brands you mention is simply that they send us information on those products. To my knowledge we have never had a press release from the brand you favour - if we did, it would be reported on the news pages of this site.
So that's the reason for the lack of 'traction', and while you may say that reflects the big slick PR machines the likes of Monster, Chord and QED can deploy, it doesn't take much to put together a one-page press release and a digital picture, and get your products more widely known...
Perfectly fair point. If no press releases are forthcoming, not much for you to work with. Nothing to prevent a bit of investigative journalism if you're keen! ;-)
Doesn't address the point that as an independent magazine, not owned by any one manufacturer there is nothing to stop you stating that above a certain cable quality point, any further expenditure on preserving the 1s and 0s is futile as they are all arriving intact anyway. If of course they are. You are after all a consumer magazine not a manufacturers magazine. I'd expect you to be able to cut through the fluff of a press release to see whether there is any truth behind the latest acronym or trademark. After all, HDMI is digital. There's only so far you can go before you've accurately transmitted the (defined) signal. You can't selectively add colour, contrast or bass depth to a digital signal. You either send the data intact, or you have losses occurring to a greater or lesser degree. In some ways it makes most sense to test a digital cable in terms of %. A 99.99999% cable or a 7nines, etc etc. This is a terminology used to describe annual downtime in servers. Resilience. Digital interconnects are measurable and I'd expect What Hi-Fi to take the consumers side on sifting out the bull. Wouldn't you?
Absolutely. Which is a) why we always preface any manufacturer blurb we use in news stories as 'claims' or says' and b) - and this is far more important - test the stuff to see what it actually does!
Plenty of low star ratings for products that have claimed the earth at launch....
Plenty of low star ratings for products that have claimed the earth at launch....
visionary
Well-known member
OK hang on...
If you have given your new cables 3 months or so to "bed in" how do you then compare them witht the old ones to say they are better?
The poor electrons in your old cable have had nothing to do for that three months, so when you put them back to convince yourself, then they will sound rubbish until they bed in again - no?
I had just about convinced myself to buy some Silver Anniversary cables but I think this thread has nearly un-convinced me. If they're going to sound bad for the next three months what is the point? I don't fancy sitting there thinking "this is awful but I know it is supposed to get better" while I wait for my sensory system to adapt and forget what the old sound was like - and your sensory system does adapt to new circumstances, whether it is smell or taste or sound.
At the end of the day, be happy with what you choose but some of the evangelism seems to be getting out of hand here.
If you have given your new cables 3 months or so to "bed in" how do you then compare them witht the old ones to say they are better?
The poor electrons in your old cable have had nothing to do for that three months, so when you put them back to convince yourself, then they will sound rubbish until they bed in again - no?
I had just about convinced myself to buy some Silver Anniversary cables but I think this thread has nearly un-convinced me. If they're going to sound bad for the next three months what is the point? I don't fancy sitting there thinking "this is awful but I know it is supposed to get better" while I wait for my sensory system to adapt and forget what the old sound was like - and your sensory system does adapt to new circumstances, whether it is smell or taste or sound.
At the end of the day, be happy with what you choose but some of the evangelism seems to be getting out of hand here.
aliEnRIK, You are getting off topic.
The question is will you will notice a differance between changing the direction of your cables.
I just did the swap arround and I noticed no mids, no highs, no bass differance. when I changed my cables arround. Are you saying you heard a differance? Can you let us know what cables you used. and did you keep the volume level the same?
If you want to start a debate on cables sounding different. Then I belive most will agree there is a differance. This is because of the way the cables are made. ( You could call this a faulty design ) but some may say they are helping you system match. eg. some cables give more low bass and if your system is missing this low bass it is giving you this. ( It makes the audio purist feel better not ajusting the tone, and bass etc...)
I consider this as if some one is eq'ing my system. ( Why not get a eq like the old days) because everyone is hung up on the purity of the sound. How many people are out their right now who put a setting on their receiver and know it sound good to their ears, but still take off the setting for pure mode because they want to hear what the artist intended. ( Note: if you want to hear what the artist hears you need the same speakers to start with and most artist use different speakers and ajust for them so they can be played on a variety of systems. from cars to high end speakers...And I haven't even gotten into compression of the audio. That is another bigger problem.
Sorry for straying off topic...
Boca
The question is will you will notice a differance between changing the direction of your cables.
I just did the swap arround and I noticed no mids, no highs, no bass differance. when I changed my cables arround. Are you saying you heard a differance? Can you let us know what cables you used. and did you keep the volume level the same?
If you want to start a debate on cables sounding different. Then I belive most will agree there is a differance. This is because of the way the cables are made. ( You could call this a faulty design ) but some may say they are helping you system match. eg. some cables give more low bass and if your system is missing this low bass it is giving you this. ( It makes the audio purist feel better not ajusting the tone, and bass etc...)
I consider this as if some one is eq'ing my system. ( Why not get a eq like the old days) because everyone is hung up on the purity of the sound. How many people are out their right now who put a setting on their receiver and know it sound good to their ears, but still take off the setting for pure mode because they want to hear what the artist intended. ( Note: if you want to hear what the artist hears you need the same speakers to start with and most artist use different speakers and ajust for them so they can be played on a variety of systems. from cars to high end speakers...And I haven't even gotten into compression of the audio. That is another bigger problem.
Sorry for straying off topic...
Boca
Hey, I haven't had so much fun reading a forum discussion since cheech and chong's album and their marijuana jig of "don't knock it unless you've tried it". I too am about to take a leap of faith and listen to some Nordost interconnects vesus my * Smith copper, but before I do:
An experienced physicst colleague has hi fi gear costing in the order of NZD40k and he uses inexpensive interconnects and praises his sound. He knows the physics that I as an electrical engineer can grasp and understand. I'd love to have that sound too.
Hearing is a pycho-acoustic phenomenon and, hence I believe, the difficulty we have in ascertaining why some praise high-end cables and others not. Not only is there self belief, the difficulty to retain what we really heard when we hear it again later, but also our own unique hearing apparatus, mood and interpretation.
By way of example, I've just done a CD player A/B test at home using the A/B selctor switch same-track test method to minimise my memory loss of what each player sounded like. So, first listen on system A, then select B: hello, struck by the brush of cymbals crystal clear with attack and separation, and that little nuance of a cello in the intrumental end signature of the track - hadn't heard that on system A, plus seemed to have a faster timing as well. Select system A, and I'll be stumped there it was on system A and I could hear some other nuances I'd missed on system B. Yep, now there they were on system B. Each time I focused on the music my interpretaion changed. And that wass damned tiring. Now, my partner just thought system B sounded livelier than system A but she liked them both.
My conclusion: component comparisons are damned difficult even when the passage of time is just that selector switch and cueing the CD track between each product listen. Now for cables, factor in actually changing the cables over, resetting the dB levels to equivalents (we use a sound pressure meter for that don't we - yeah right), etc.
A set of biased interconnects might make a difference? I guess 'Directional' audio cables can be formed by an applied polarising bias aligning the atomic structure permanently either during manufacture in the drawing process of forming the conductor, or other electromagnetic biasing while its in use. That's what directional means and its possible I guess and it may make a difference to the mulitple frequency component electrical waveform superimposed on it. Multiples of these interconnets ain't cheap guys so would the money be better spent elsewhere in the system . . .
Whatever: I'm no physicist so I will have to hear a marked difference to believe its not just psycho-acoustics. That goes for the copper vs silver debate as well. I'm off to test this out. If I don't hear it then I don't buy it.
An experienced physicst colleague has hi fi gear costing in the order of NZD40k and he uses inexpensive interconnects and praises his sound. He knows the physics that I as an electrical engineer can grasp and understand. I'd love to have that sound too.
Hearing is a pycho-acoustic phenomenon and, hence I believe, the difficulty we have in ascertaining why some praise high-end cables and others not. Not only is there self belief, the difficulty to retain what we really heard when we hear it again later, but also our own unique hearing apparatus, mood and interpretation.
By way of example, I've just done a CD player A/B test at home using the A/B selctor switch same-track test method to minimise my memory loss of what each player sounded like. So, first listen on system A, then select B: hello, struck by the brush of cymbals crystal clear with attack and separation, and that little nuance of a cello in the intrumental end signature of the track - hadn't heard that on system A, plus seemed to have a faster timing as well. Select system A, and I'll be stumped there it was on system A and I could hear some other nuances I'd missed on system B. Yep, now there they were on system B. Each time I focused on the music my interpretaion changed. And that wass damned tiring. Now, my partner just thought system B sounded livelier than system A but she liked them both.
My conclusion: component comparisons are damned difficult even when the passage of time is just that selector switch and cueing the CD track between each product listen. Now for cables, factor in actually changing the cables over, resetting the dB levels to equivalents (we use a sound pressure meter for that don't we - yeah right), etc.
A set of biased interconnects might make a difference? I guess 'Directional' audio cables can be formed by an applied polarising bias aligning the atomic structure permanently either during manufacture in the drawing process of forming the conductor, or other electromagnetic biasing while its in use. That's what directional means and its possible I guess and it may make a difference to the mulitple frequency component electrical waveform superimposed on it. Multiples of these interconnets ain't cheap guys so would the money be better spent elsewhere in the system . . .
Whatever: I'm no physicist so I will have to hear a marked difference to believe its not just psycho-acoustics. That goes for the copper vs silver debate as well. I'm off to test this out. If I don't hear it then I don't buy it.
method man:But it was you that quoted Chords blurb mate.
Because it backed up MY findings. I didnt post it because I didnt believe in it. I posted it because ive found the exact same results my my OWN tests
Because it backed up MY findings. I didnt post it because I didnt believe in it. I posted it because ive found the exact same results my my OWN tests
Boca:
aliEnRIK, You are getting off topic.
The question is will you will notice a differance between changing the direction of your cables.
I just did the swap arround and I noticed no mids, no highs, no bass differance. when I changed my cables arround. Are you saying you heard a differance? Can you let us know what cables you used. and did you keep the volume level the same?
If you want to start a debate on cables sounding different. Then I belive most will agree there is a differance. This is because of the way the cables are made. ( You could call this a faulty design ) but some may say they are helping you system match. eg. some cables give more low bass and if your system is missing this low bass it is giving you this. ( It makes the audio purist feel better not ajusting the tone, and bass etc...)
I consider this as if some one is eq'ing my system. ( Why not get a eq like the old days) because everyone is hung up on the purity of the sound. How many people are out their right now who put a setting on their receiver and know it sound good to their ears, but still take off the setting for pure mode because they want to hear what the artist intended. ( Note: if you want to hear what the artist hears you need the same speakers to start with and most artist use different speakers and ajust for them so they can be played on a variety of systems. from cars to high end speakers...And I haven't even gotten into compression of the audio. That is another bigger problem.
Sorry for straying off topic...
Boca
It happens
For the record (as ive said before) ~ Cables are directional in that theyre not perfect so one way will near always be better than the other for electrical conductance. BUT, as for actually being 'audibly' directional im not so sure (Im not saying either way as ive not made up my mind yet)
There is of course the fact that the vast majority of hifi cabling is also AC (alternating current), so directionality doesnt (At least in theory) make any difference. Again ~ im sitting on the fence as I couldnt say for sure
aliEnRIK, You are getting off topic.
The question is will you will notice a differance between changing the direction of your cables.
I just did the swap arround and I noticed no mids, no highs, no bass differance. when I changed my cables arround. Are you saying you heard a differance? Can you let us know what cables you used. and did you keep the volume level the same?
If you want to start a debate on cables sounding different. Then I belive most will agree there is a differance. This is because of the way the cables are made. ( You could call this a faulty design ) but some may say they are helping you system match. eg. some cables give more low bass and if your system is missing this low bass it is giving you this. ( It makes the audio purist feel better not ajusting the tone, and bass etc...)
I consider this as if some one is eq'ing my system. ( Why not get a eq like the old days) because everyone is hung up on the purity of the sound. How many people are out their right now who put a setting on their receiver and know it sound good to their ears, but still take off the setting for pure mode because they want to hear what the artist intended. ( Note: if you want to hear what the artist hears you need the same speakers to start with and most artist use different speakers and ajust for them so they can be played on a variety of systems. from cars to high end speakers...And I haven't even gotten into compression of the audio. That is another bigger problem.
Sorry for straying off topic...
Boca
It happens
For the record (as ive said before) ~ Cables are directional in that theyre not perfect so one way will near always be better than the other for electrical conductance. BUT, as for actually being 'audibly' directional im not so sure (Im not saying either way as ive not made up my mind yet)
There is of course the fact that the vast majority of hifi cabling is also AC (alternating current), so directionality doesnt (At least in theory) make any difference. Again ~ im sitting on the fence as I couldnt say for sure
Will Harris:Alienrik, I'm glad you're happy with the results you've found. I think I've made my position clear on what I think. Take care mate.
same to you
same to you
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