Crossover Settings ?????????

[Dermondo]

Hi all, I have run the audessey set up on my amp denon 2311 and when finished I changed the speaker sizes to small and crossover to 90hz, speakers all b&w, front dm603s2,centre htm62 and rears 686 and all fine.

I was then advised to set the crossover to 120hz, but to be honest I really dont know what this will do by changing crossovers etc, only thing I noticed is maybe the low end had more impact on 120hz, once I understand the implications of adjusting crossover settings maybe the penny will drop as I like to get the best out of my speakers and setup in my listening area.

Also how can I find the crossover settings in my speaker setup, again its a lack of knowledge on my part, many thanks in advance to all you respond.

 

[DandyCobalt]

Go with what sounds best to you.

I changed crossover on my 751 to a lower 60Hz (as recommended on this forum for CM8 speakers somewhere), and bass then started cutting out - changed it back to 80Hz and all was fine again. Trust yor ears

 

[Dermondo]

Go with what sounds best to you.

I changed crossover on my 751 to a lower 60Hz (as recommended on this forum for CM8 speakers somewhere), and bass then started cutting out - changed it back to 80Hz and all was fine again. Trust yor ears

I can understand that its all down to personal taste, thats true, is it then the higher you set the crossover to, the more LFE is going to your sub and visa versa.

By the way 'ive sent an email to B&W to provide me with some info on my speakers.

Thanks by the way

 

[Frank Harvey]

Yes. The higher the crossover point, the more work yur sub is having to do, but this is easing the load on the speakers, which after all, are producing the important stuff. If you've upped it to 120Hz and find that there's more impact, that's showing that your sub is dealing with that 90-120Hz section better than your speakers are. This isn't unusual for ported speakers.

You could try 100Hz - basically you want to get that crossover point as low as you can without losing that impact, but keeping it high will improve clarity as the speakers have less to do.

Whether a high or low crossover point is preferred, pretty much depends on the speakers being used, and the sub being used.

 

[RickyDeg]

According to Audyssey themselves the auto-calibration will set the crossover to how your speakers actually perform in your current listeningroom and set-up, regardless of what they are specificed to, frequency-wise. So lets say (just for example) your frontspeakers are capable of playing down to a (by the manufacturer) measured 50Hz, but Audyssey auto-sets them to 90Hz it's quite likely that the system measurements sense this upon the actual information it gathers. However, this doesn't mean you can't get better results changing it yourself. You can also ruin it. Simply test different settings and dont take the auto-calibration too seriously if it doesnt sound good to your own ears.

However, as a general rule - when it comes to subwoofers, the lower they are cut the less you will be able to localize it in the room, and the less 'boom' you might experience aswell. Not many subwoofers do mid-or upperbass too well, that is generally to be handled by the other speakers (naturally depending on their construction!). The higher in frequenzy a subwoofer needs to work the more you often compromise in performance. Many users set their speakers to 80Hz and thus the sub only have to handle frequencies from that point and downward. In your case, I cannot imagine your B&W speakers not being able to reproduce a sensible about of bass without hiss. Setting your crossover to 120Hz does sound a little high. Try begin with 80Hz and go from there. Remember the subwoofer have two tasks to handle: the re-direction of bass your other speakers won't play PLUS the dedicated LFE-channel when playing such encoded sources (DVD, Blu-ray etc) so the more care and time you spend in setting this up the more you'll benifit.

You should def visit Audyssey's homepage aswell and possibly send your Q's to them! Lots of helpful stuff there! I've been there myself a few times. Check it out here: http://ask.audyssey.com/home

 

[duaplex]

So guys looking at my setup in my signature. These are the channel levels on my Speakers

L -3.0
R -3.0
C +1.5
SL -1.5
SR -1.0
Sub -12

Crossover is set to 80hz
Speakers are set to small

Where do you think I should go from here. Increase the crossover frequency to 100hz maybe? I head about this 60hz approach too, but that is not an option on the LX83?

Thanks in advanced guys

 

[fayeanddavid]

So guys looking at my setup in my signature. These are the channel levels on my Speakers L -3.0 R -3.0 C +1.5 SL -1.5 SR -1.0 Sub -12 Crossover is set to 80hz Speakers are set to small Where do you think I should go from here. Increase the crossover frequency to 100hz maybe? I head about this 60hz approach too, but that is not an option on the LX83? Thanks in advanced guys

duaplex

Nothing is set is stone, try the 100Hz setting, if you like it then that's a good'un, if you don't set it back.

Listen with your ears as well as trying the various settings, as I say, nothing is set in stone.

 

[d4v3pum4]

There are lots of guides on the tinterweb about crossover etc. If you google "crossover settings in relation to bass management" you should find a couple.

Use your ears to decide what is best but I would suggest if you don't know what you're doing leave it at 80hz/100hz.

You're wasting your time posting the speaker levels as they apply to your own room only.

 

[duaplex]

Ok so its time to test!

Your right about posting settings, I just wanted to paint the full picture because people have asked me out of curiosity before.

Cant wait to get home and try 100hz!

 

[CnoEvil]

Duaplex

Never one to conform, I prefer to set my front speakers to Large, and set the crossover to slightly above where they drop down to. It gives a different presentation, and is worth trying to see if you like it (that is if you haven't already).

Cno

 

[fayeanddavid]

Duaplex Never one to conform, I prefer to set my front speakers to Large, and set the crossover to slightly above where they drop down to. It gives a different presentation, and is worth trying to see if you like it (that is if you haven't already). Cno

If you have a receiver that will allow crossover to be set individually for the FL/FR, Centre and SL/SR then it makes sense to set each 5-10Hz above their bottom end, if not and there is only the one setting (as on my amp) then you need to be just above the higher value lowest setting i.e my speakers at the rear are 80Hz bottom end, so crossover is being swapped over 80Hz, 90Hz and 100Hz to see which sounds the best.................your ears are the ultimate test once you've carried out the basic settings.

 

[CnoEvil]

Duaplex Never one to conform, I prefer to set my front speakers to Large, and set the crossover to slightly above where they drop down to. It gives a different presentation, and is worth trying to see if you like it (that is if you haven't already). Cno

If you have a receiver that will allow crossover to be set individually for the FL/FR, Centre and SL/SR then it makes sense to set each 5-10Hz above their bottom end, if not and there is only the one setting (as on my amp) then you need to be just above the higher value lowest setting i.e my speakers at the rear are 80Hz bottom end, so crossover is being swapped over 80Hz, 90Hz and 100Hz to see which sounds the best.................your ears are the ultimate test once you've carried out the basic settings.

Yup. Agree with all this.

The standard recomendation is to set all speakers to small, unless full range (20hz - 20khz), which can then free up the amp, thus giving a clearer mid-range and possibly more controlled bass. In practice, if the speakers can handle reasonable bass, I enjoy the more robust sound which the Large setting produces.....as you say it's very individual and worth experimenting with.

Cno

 

[duaplex]

Thanks guys this is awesome stuff.

Just an update, I set the speakers to small and i could have swore i picked up more detail. I had them on large too before this.

So i phoned up B&W to ask them and they advised me to stick to 80hz and go up as you guys are telling me.

What they was to set the B&W to small and as he termed it "to avoid destructive sound" he was explaining that when the big explosions hit you, the front tweaters have to handle that and it not something they were designed to really cope with. So for the best result you should stick to small as it could potentially harm the speaker due to the smaller driver. Also this lets the sub handle the massive explosions as it has he drivers to cope with it.

Sounds quite logical i thought so its now on small and it does sound good. Still playing with it and now to mess with the frequency

Will update more guys and thanks for the replies. I am still at it at 23:45....my poor neighbours!!

 

[Sliced Bread]

So i phoned up B&W to ask them and they advised me to stick to 80hz and go up as you guys are telling me.

That is really interesting, as B&W told me to go for 60hz on the same speaker package.

Maybe they need to make up their minds

 

[bigboss]

Try out different crossover settings & see what suits you best. If you've got a good subwoofer, then set the speaker to small. Setting it large will only make the speakers work harder doing the job which your subwoofer is uniquely designed for.

 

[duaplex]

Good advice Bigboss, that is exactly what i have been told by B&W....shows you know your stuff!

I think i have reached a happy medium. I have set them to small and have it on 80hz. It sounds great!

I find that i have to whack up the rears as this give me the thrill im after. I love to hear things whizz over and around me!

 

[duaplex]

Sliced Bread

Speak to a guy called Stephen in the tech department, he knows his stuff! The others normally pass you onto him as he is the man to speak with.

He did say you could try 60hz, but after he looked at the CM8 manual he concluded that 67hz was the actual optimum and 60hz is perhaps a little too low. My AV can only do 50Hz and not 60hz, so he advised i go to 80hz as that would be better than 50hz in my case.

Ideally they should be operating at 67hz according to the book!

Also THX certifies at 80hz.

Would be interested to hear if any other Pioneer owners can do a manual setting. I cant believe the LX83 is so limited!

 

[Sliced Bread]

Thanks Duaplex.

I'm going to stick with 60hz though, as I find the sound is more natural. Using 80hz engages the sub in the lower registers of vocals and to my ears loses something.

I have noticed that 70hz and 80hz does provide a smoother drop off when running the THX crossover test, but I find that too much is sacrificed on vocals.

We are both using different subs. Maybe your sub is better than mine at handling the more nuanced details in the 60hz to 80 hz region so your not experiencing the loss in performance I am getting with an 80hz setting.

 

[duaplex]

I badly want to try this 60Hz setting too, but how??

Yes the Sub will be different, the PV1 is good at handling all manor of frequencies, so maybe as you say its compensating for me.

But there is the expression "curiosity killed the cat" it certainly is on my end I would love to be able to hear your system and comapre!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys this is awesome stuff. Just an update, I set the speakers to small and i could have swore i picked up more detail. I had them on large too before this. So i phoned up B&W to ask them and they advised me to stick to 80hz and go up as you guys are telling me. What they was to set the B&W to small and as he termed it "to avoid destructive sound" he was explaining that when the big explosions hit you, the front tweaters have to handle that and it not something they were designed to really cope with. So for the best result you should stick to small as it could potentially harm the speaker due to the smaller driver. Also this lets the sub handle the massive explosions as it has he drivers to cope with it. Sounds quite logical i thought so its now on small and it does sound good. Still playing with it and now to mess with the frequency Will update more guys and thanks for the replies. I am still at it at 23:45....my poor neighbours!!

whats your crossover set to - to reduce load on the front tweeters :??? 1.2khz ?

80hz crossover will indeed take load off the bass drivers on the main speakers but won't have any effect whatsover on the tweeters

I would not recommend you use the 50hz crossover on the Pioneer-it has some disadvantages - 80hz will be fine

 

[Dermondo]

Email I recieved from B&W regarding my speakers.

Thank you for your email regarding the B&W DM603 S2, HTM62 and 686 and bass management settings.
A systems crossover point is dictated by the point that your smallest speaker(s) can go down to, this is specified as the -3dB point, so in your circumstances, the smallest speaker(s) in your system being the 686's which achieves 55Hz @ -3dB.
My recommendation would be to set all the speakers to "small" with a crossover set to 60Hz. I'm assuming you have a subwoofer.
This enables the subwoofer to handle everything from 20Hz upto 60Hz, then the rest of the speakers will handle everything-else

 

[fayeanddavid]

Email I recieved from B&W regarding my speakers. Thank you for your email regarding the B&W DM603 S2, HTM62 and 686 and bass management settings. A systems crossover point is dictated by the point that your smallest speaker(s) can go down to, this is specified as the -3dB point, so in your circumstances, the smallest speaker(s) in your system being the 686's which achieves 55Hz @ -3dB. My recommendation would be to set all the speakers to "small" with a crossover set to 60Hz. I'm assuming you have a subwoofer. This enables the subwoofer to handle everything from 20Hz upto 60Hz, then the rest of the speakers will handle everything-else

And then set to 60Hz and have a listen, if you like it leave it!!

If not move up to 80Hz and have a listen, if you like it leave it!

 

[Anonymous]

Email I recieved from B&W regarding my speakers. Thank you for your email regarding the B&W DM603 S2, HTM62 and 686 and bass management settings. A systems crossover point is dictated by the point that your smallest speaker(s) can go down to, this is specified as the -3dB point, so in your circumstances, the smallest speaker(s) in your system being the 686's which achieves 55Hz @ -3dB. My recommendation would be to set all the speakers to "small" with a crossover set to 60Hz. I'm assuming you have a subwoofer. This enables the subwoofer to handle everything from 20Hz upto 60Hz, then the rest of the speakers will handle everything-else

only 20hz ? you need a SVS - mines practically flat down to 12hz

 

[Dermondo]

Email I recieved from B&W regarding my speakers. Thank you for your email regarding the B&W DM603 S2, HTM62 and 686 and bass management settings. A systems crossover point is dictated by the point that your smallest speaker(s) can go down to, this is specified as the -3dB point, so in your circumstances, the smallest speaker(s) in your system being the 686's which achieves 55Hz @ -3dB. My recommendation would be to set all the speakers to "small" with a crossover set to 60Hz. I'm assuming you have a subwoofer. This enables the subwoofer to handle everything from 20Hz upto 60Hz, then the rest of the speakers will handle everything-else

only 20hz ? you need a SVS - mines practically flat down to 12hz
[/quote

As a matter of interest I checked specs for my sub, freq. response 35hz-200hz +_ 3db,

Is that around the norm I wonder ????????????

 

[Anonymous]

I've tried various settings on my system and have always come back to selecting all large speakers, as the fronts are happy down to about 70Hz and tail off gradually. For the bass management setting I select to add the front signal to the LFE channel, so any stereo signals get the benefit of the sub, and the really low stuff in the front of a 5.1 mix gets heard as well.

The only problem I get is with SACD surround coming in via external analogue on my Denon it bypasses the bass management, but as I have large speakers selected all is not lost.

The bass management means that I can listen to most stuff without the sub, and switch it on when really wanted. The tough part was aligning the sub. It's set at about 50Hz, any higher and there's a build up of bass as a horrible boom. The level was then backed off after the initial "oooh wow" couple of days. It now works on classical music, rock music and movies all very nicely which is a difficult range to reproduce consistently well.

Your B&W DM603s look similar and must give decent low end, so I'd keep them on large. I can't see any point in getting decent speakers then strangling them by filtering out the bass just to give them an easier time on the loud bits.

If I remember correctly the bandwidth of Dolby and DTS LFE channel is 20-120Hz which is fine for LFE only, however bass management changes this and the sub then needs to be dovetailed into the rest of the speakers carefully. A spectrum analyser helps to get close, however after 35 years of setting up recording studio monitors, it certainly isn't the complete answer as then careful listening is the only way to get it right.